So apparently I just had a debate with Vox Day?
A couple of days ago, you see, a Twitterer calling himself RedPillPhil suggested I was a bit of a coward for taking on an “easy target” like A Voice for Men rather than taking on the leading intellectual lights of the so-called “Dark Enlightenment” like … Heartiste, and Vox Day … who I actually write about all the time.
My laughter must have carried all the way to, well, wherever Vox Day lives, because Mr. Day soon appeared on Twitter and challenged me to a debate — on women’s right to vote. The very notion of two dudes earnestly debating female suffrage – in 2014, no less – struck me as beyond absurd, so I sent back what I thought was an appropriately dismissive Tweet:
@voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste Yes, women should have voting rights, because they, like men, are human. I win the debate! The end.Thanks!
— David Futrelle (@DavidFutrelle) July 25, 2014
Apparently Mr. Day saw this tweet as my opening gambit in a debate that was now on, and replied with an attempted gotcha. Against my better judgment, I replied:
@voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste No. I vote where I live, in the US.. So are you contending that no women live in the countries they vote in?
— David Futrelle (@DavidFutrelle) July 25, 2014
He replied, and I sunk deeper into the quicksand of this ridiculous “debate.”
@voxday @RedPillPhil @heartiste There are a few basic requirements for having the right to vote besides being human but being male isn't one
— David Futrelle (@DavidFutrelle) July 26, 2014
At this point I realized I needed to shut this thing down as quickly as possible. So I posted a couple of quick tweets:
And then, quite literally, I went and took a nap.
Later I discovered that Mr. Day’s possibly imaginary wife, known only as Space Bunny, had weighed in with her own attempted “gotcha.”
I thought that was that. So imagine my surprise to see that Mr. Day had retreated to his blog Alpha Game to boast about his great success in “exposing a Gamma.” That gamma being me.
In his typically pompous prose, Mr. Day explained that his Twitter encounter with me
should help illustrate why the critics of Game are so hesitant to directly challenge any of the leading Game bloggers; despite their pretensions they know very well that they are overmatched.
Oh, plus I’m a fat loser who can’t get laid:
Critics such as Futrelle and Scalzi are of low socio-sexual rank, which means that they have the usual gamma male’s distaste for conflict that has a clear winner. The reason is that as long as they can avoid losing, they can still claim victory in their delusional gamma style.
“Delusional Gamma Style” was Psy’s little known followup to Gangnam Style.
Notice how Futrelle tries to immediately declare himself the winner. This is normal. It’s all about the spin with gammas; substance is to be avoided to the greatest extent possible because the more of it there is, the harder it becomes to spin the selected narrative. They are undefeated in their own minds, victors in a long series of imaginary encounters.
At this point Mr. Day – apparently oblivious to irony– declares himself the winner:
But even in a short, character-limited exchange such as this, I was able to show Futrelle’s reasoning to be incorrect twice, so it is little wonder he does not dare risk a more in-depth encounter with me or one of the other men. The longer it went on, the more inconsistencies I would have been able to expose. Once he realized this, he promptly repeated his initial position and retreated.
Yeah, I’m sure you would have done a bang-up job showing me that since it’s ok to restrict people to voting only in the places in which they actually live, it is also ok to deny votes to women.
This is why we are winning. This is why we will win. Our critics and our enemies have to run away from us every single time we enter a new arena. All we have to do to continue convincing men of the truth of our perspective is to avoid getting lazy, to keep developing and presenting refined ideas, and to remember that rhetoric is no substitute for dialectic. And every time there is a minor encounter of this sort, more people will see that there is no rational foundation for the feminized dogma our opponents are so ineptly defending.
You just keep telling yourself that.
EDITED TO ADD: Just noticed this amazing comment on Vox’s site, from someone called Doom. (What’s with misogynists and their supervillain names?)
Actually, when women see these debates, they choose the strong side. I don’t think they always understand, or agree, but they instinctively know strong from weak, and generally choose strong. But then fall back into confusion without a steady stream of strength, which most men haven’t been presenting them. Game is changing that, from what I am seeing. There is as much hope as there is time. Then again, as things are setting up, a break will be for the good.
Game isn’t just a sexual struggle, it opens up much else in life. Men who begin to master game aren’t willing to be helpless in other parts of their lives. That bites into the need, and want, of bigger government. Zoom!
Ladies love mansplaining assholes! Soon the governments of the world will crumble before us!
—
For further laughs, read his Hugo-nominated (or Hugo-gamed, I should say) short story. It’s basically “An elf discovers the truth of Jesus.”
As someone who has studied logic, I think my brain just exploded.
Women shouldn’t have suffrage because……children don’t vote? Inteeerrrresting analogy (but understandable, given the MRA attitude to women’s intelligence.
Or – women shouldn’t have suffrage because…we restrict voting to, you know, the people affected by the vote (ie. the relevant country or region) ??
I think every time a MRA finds the place where you are meant to vote, it should be marked as a victory.
And people nominated this Vox Day guy for a Hugo?? O_o My BraIn! It’S MelTinG!
The dark enlightenment is for people who think libertarians are still too empathetic.
And your (Vox Day’s) fallacy is:
http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Faulty-Analogy.html
“We prevent some classes of people from voting. Therefore other classes of people should not be allowed to vote.” Honestly, you could use that to argue that nobody should vote.
Which I’m not 100% sure Vox Day would disagree with. I suspect he actually has no moral objection to himself being dictator–anyone else would be tyranny.
VD DunningKrugers so very hard.
He doesn’t know his ass from his elbow, much less the first thing about logic or human nature.
He’s sure he’s the smartest and rightest ever and he doesn’t know any better, so it must be so. What a pompous, deluded dipshit.
The original question didn’t cover any of the other qualifications for voting, so why should David’s response? Hey, we don’t let animals or space aliens register to vote? So women shouldn’t vote. But men should? Why not deny men the right to vote? How do their arguments not apply to denying men the vote? There didn’t always used to be a vote, and certainly not anything approaching universal suffrage. So, why should men vote? What’s their answer to that?
Seriously, why are these people such asstards?
We don’t let children drive. Therefore, we shouldn’t let people born in the month of November drive.
Look, y’all! Can can “logic” like VD!
Is this the guy? http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
Some people aren’t worth arguing with. If I argued with every single person that thinks I shouldn’t exist, I’d never sleep.
I also don’t argue with people who believe turtles are trees. Because if I wanted to masturbate, I’d do it in private, thank you.
@scarlettpipstrelle, yep. That’s him.
It’s always baffling/hilarious to me how absolutely everything for these sorts of people comes back to a weird sexual hierarchy. He drags John Scalzi into it and says that this former president of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America and winner of a Hugo award is of “low socio-sexual rank.”
We all have better things to worry about than your sexual approval, VD.
*creeps back into lurk*
I’ve met people elsewhere who have a gift of fast gab, which they mistake for smarts and the ability to win arguments. That’s like saying that if you have a fast-accelerating sports car you’re definitely a better driver than someone in a truck.
I love… lamp?
That’s about the level this “debate” was at.
@Lea
Yeah, the type of person who has to tell everyone else how smart/alpha they are tend to be the worst examples of humanity.
They call themselves kings when they are less than peasants
We don’t let cats drive why humans? What about teh catz! But of course we are their servants after all so we do it for them so never mind.
what a fucking stupid argument. It’s the level of nyah nyah nyah nyah. I’ve had more intelligent conversations with a dish towel.
Hey, how about “all people who’ve reached adulthood should be allowed to vote” ? Seems a simple enough threshold. Adulthood seems a pretty good (if very rough) indicator for being able to exercise your democratic rights with some understanding of the consequences of your vote – in theory at least – so why make things any more complicated than that?
Don’t understand why arguments to restrict the franchise are a thing in 2014.
“The dark enlightenment is for people who think libertarians are still too empathetic.”
The dark enlightenment/”new” right is some 19th Century bullshit. It’s the phrenology of politics.
I think I’ve been reading this blog for too long. I used to read these arguments against women’s suffrage and get really mad. Now I just think, “oh, look, there’s another one.”
Why is it so hard for these assholes to think adults should be allowed to vote? And what is it with them insisting on a debate RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW on their pet topic? If I’m walking around a comics shop, I’m not going to make people argue about the best Green Lantern, because it’s douchey to do that to people.
Also lolsob @ the idea that a male supremacist worldview that Men Are Strong, Women Are Weak And Need Men To Command Them wil somehow lead to revolutionary change.
Given that men overwhelmingly hold the majority of positions of power in governments, business, media organisations, lobbying groups, public institutions and religious orgs, tell me exactly how that would look any different to the world we live in now? (except of course in the fedorakin utopia women would STFU and like it)
It’s funny how those with personalities that stink like week old fish think that people run away from them because everyone is just so intimidated by their superior intellect.
No, guys, people just don’t like you, and there’s only so much stench that Febreze can cover up.