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atheism attention seeking lying liars misogyny MRA pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles the amazing atheist

The Amazing Atheist's not-so-amazing thoughts on the age of consent

The alleged theamazingatheist's allegedly false confession
The alleged theamazingatheist’s allegedly false confession

You may have run across an image macro going around the internet recently featuring a picture of YouTube ranter and sometime Men’s Rights ally The Amazing Atheist – aka Terroja or TJ Kinkaid – and an appalling quote, supposedly from him, arguing that MRAs should campaign to lower the age of consent, because “[n]ature already has an age of consent. That age is approximately 12-13, otherwise known as the onset of puberty.”

I didn’t post about the quote, appalling as it is, because I couldn’t find any proof that Mr. Kincaid actually wrote or said it; I even searched several of Mr. Kincaid’s books and a document entitled “The Somewhat Complete Ravings of TJ Kincaid” to no avail. Apparently no one else has been able to find the quote either.

If this quote was fabricated, I’m a little puzzled as to why, because Kincaid has actually said very similar things before. Given the confusion about the quote, I thought it might be worth noting what we know he has said on the topic.

In a 2006 posting on a Marilyn Manson fan site, linked to in RationalWiki’s profile of him, a self-identified “atheist libertarian” calling himself Terroja argued that

Having pedophilic attractions doesn’t mean you automatically go out and start molesting kids. From the time I was 14 to the time I was about 19, I used to have extreme pedophilic fantasies, and I somehow managed to never even come close to acting on them. I think with my brain, not my penis.

I do think, however, the pedophilia is unfairly persecuted in today’s society.

I think the difference in punishment between child rapists and child molestors should be more significant, with molestors perhaps simply attending mandatory therapy for their first offense. I also think that the age of sexual consent should be lowered to 12 or 13.

My stance is not designed to be controversial or to offend anyone. I only want human beings to understand that the law must work within the parameters of human nature, not in defiance of it.

In a recent posting on his blog, Kincaid admits that this indeed is something he once believed:

The age of consent thing is based on a post I made on an internet forum when I was like 20. And it was actually a pretty popular sentiment on the boards at that time. Hell, it was a popular sentiment on the internet in general at that time. It was also, I’m sad to say, an opinion that my father held.

After experiencing another decade on planet earth, I realize how horribly misguided that opinion was and is. I think that maybe it’s not so horrible for kids that age to begin sexual exploration with one another, but it’s definitely wrong for an adult to engage is sex with someone that young and inexperienced. 

The “everyone else was a pedophile in 2006” argument is not exactly a convincing one, and it’s worth noting that Kincaid “confessed” his attraction towards underage girls in his self-published 2007 book “Scumbag: Musings of a Subhuman” as well, writing that

I think 14-year-old girls are hot. (Yeah, so does everyone else, but I actually admit it)

That’s what pedophiles would like to believe, but it’s not actually true.

Also, in “The Somewhat Complete Ravings of TJ Kincaid,” which seems to be a compilation of writings from several of his books, we find the following passage:

Teenage girls are annoying because they go out into public dressed like sluts and then if you look at their massive titties there is a segment of our society that will happily declare you a pedophile for “oggling those poor children.” Children, my ass. Children don’t have D cups. Children don’t have big, luscious round asses crammed into designer jeans.

For what it’s worth, the word is “ogling,” not “oggling.”

Even more troubling than these quotes is the fact that Kincaid also claimed at one point that he “dated” a 14-year-old when he was 23.

In his recent posting, he insists that he was only joking:

As for this nonsense about me dating a 14-year-old when I was 23, I was actually mocking a friend of mine who was over 30 and was macking on some 16-year-old girl. The sad fact is that when I was 23, I was single and pussyless. And I was too timid and frightened to even approach a girl sexually, let alone one who could wind me up in prison.

I have no trouble believing that he was lying about having an underage girlfriend, but his explanation doesn’t seem to jibe with what he – or someone claiming to be him – said in the very strange (and not altogether safe for work) video that seems to be the source for what Kincaid calls this “rumor” about him.

Roughly 30 minutes into the video, which shows a live BlogTV session between YouTube personality thefakesagan and some guests in  an internet chatroom, we see someone identified as theamazingatheist declare flatly in the chat session that “as a 23-year-old I dated a 14-year-old briefly.”

When the expletive-spewing thefakesagan asks him what it was that led him to stop “dating” the 14-year-old so quickly, theamazingatheist replies “fear of her dad murdering me,” adding in a followup comment that “he was a Marine, actually.”

When the host, burping and fiddling with a bass guitar, asks theamazingatheist if he actually felt “an emotional bond with this 14-year-old bitch,” themazingatheist replies “I felt an emotional bond with her pussy.”

“Sorry,” he types a few moments later, “I’m a sociopath, useless in the ways of love.”

The host then spends a few moments fumbling with his instrument, trying ineptly to work out the bassline to Michael Jackson’s “Beat It.” “You better run, you better do what you’re told,” he sings, “TJ’s in the back room fucking a 14-year-old.”

The conversation moves on, and I think I will too.

But now that I’ve gotten hold of some of TJ’s masterworks, I think I’ll have to see what else is hiding within them. I suspect I’ll be posting about that shortly.

 

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

That pretty much sums it up, yep.

Argument : But! But but but! It’s important that we acknowledge that some pedophiles can’t help feeling that way, and…

Response : I don’t care.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Brain bleach!

Maru and Hana, mighty warriors.

http://youtu.be/8HHP3P_1bNM

Alex
6 years ago

I’d like to know why some people refer to pedophilia both as a sexual orientation and a disease. Pick one, for ffs. I mean, either is problematic, but at least let there be some consistency. Calling it both aids homophobes when they say homosexuality is dangerous, or that it “leads” to pedophilia. Calling it a disease stigmatizes mentally ill people, as well as creates unnecessary sympathy for child molesters. Calling it a sexual orientation gives it validity, where pedophiles cry that QUILTBAG people have rights, so why can’t they? I mean does anyone accept gerontophilia as a sexual orientation? How about necrophilia? Bestiality? Anyone?

Look, feelings are one thing – no one can help that – but you can choose not to dwell on problematic thoughts and you can definitely choose not to act on them. As others have said, writing about it and talking about why it’s not that bad, etc. is acting on problematic thoughts.

Tl;dr, adding to the chorus of not giving a shit where feeling attraction to children comes from, or the distinction between pubescent and prepubescent children. Just don’t fucking do it. If you think about doing it, keep those thoughts to yourself and don’t fucking do it.

Greebo
Greebo
6 years ago

@ StarStorm- That makes them kinda terrifying and sad at the same time. They’re so… dissapointifing? I *hope* their family members/ relevant partners are dissapointed in them. Gods know I am.

@KittehSerf- Brain bleach served with Creme de Kitty! Most refreshing. Thank you!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

My pleasure, Greebo! 😀

Alex, ditto. I’ve seen pedophilia called a fetish, too, but like everyone says, it doesn’t matter what the hell it is; what matters is not acting on it, because if you do, then whatever else you are, you’re a child rapist.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

Got into impassioned drunk-debate with boyfriend last weekend about how to treat/view pedophiles. I think the high point of that discussion was when I declared that I would enact murder upon them with my own two hands, wringing my hands to illustrate this point.

We were at a party.

I have no idea what other people thought of this display.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Instead of tragicomic they’re tragishitheads. And yeah, the attempt to frame pedophilia as just another sexual orientation is a pretty transparent first step towards legitimizing child abuse, and I’m not buying it. Lots of people have intrusive thoughts that they’d rather not have, but if you embrace thoughts about molesting children and try to legitimize them to yourself and/or others then your moral compass is broken.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

Sometimes when my partner leaves his laptop to get a drink or something, when he returns there are multiple tabs open of maru and hana. I have no idea how this happens. It is truly baffling. *cough*

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Adding some more thoughts about the important “feelings you can’t help but having”/”actions you control”-distinction…

I was having a conversation some time ago with a friend who’s also bisexual, about the problem we have with the “born this way” argument for HBT-rights. I grant that the argument has had lots of positive effects, but at the end of the day I still think it’s a bad argument as arguments go, and she feels likewise.
I do feel like I was “born this way”. For various reasons I tried super-hard to suppress that I was attracted to women, until I couldn’t deny it any longer. But, as my friend said (and that goes for me as well) – that doesn’t mean that the actual having sex with women happened because of some uncontrollable urge that drove me to sex whether I wanted to or not. No, the actual having sex with women is totally a choice. It’s still not morally wrong, though. There are lots of choices that aren’t morally wrong to make, and having consensual sex with other adults where no one gets hurt is one of them. And even if it were the case that being bi itself were a choice that some people made, it would still be perfectly alright.

And on the contrary, even if pedophiles really are “born that way”, that does nothing to justify having sex with kids.

I remember a case that Professor Stephen Morse (law and psychology) told us about at a workshop I attended at London University a few years ago (I might have told this story before, so bear with me in that case.)

(Also, TRIGGER WARNING for child molestation.)

So, there was this man with no previous record of sex offenses. According to his own story, he just suddenly, out of the blue, started having sexual thoughts about children. Started surfing child pornography, and also molesting his step daughter. Eventually he was found out. He did get a medical examination, and it turned out that the had a cyst in his brain. It was deemed likely that the cyst was connected to his change in thoughts and behaviour. Since he had no previous criminal record, the judge sentenced him to attend some kind of sex offender therapy. If he didn’t successfully complete therapy, he was still going to jail, but otherwise that would be all (I may not remember each and every detail precisely, possibly he was also going to pay some money, idk, but at least he would be able to stay out of jail through attending therapy). He also had the cyst removed.

It was some time lag before the therapy actually started, and after a little time in therapy, he seemed to lose all self control. He’d just jump at the nurse who was leading the therapy sessions, grabbing her boobs and try to tear her clothes off, and when he felt that he needed to go to the bathroom he didn’t bother actually going there, but just did his stuff on the floor. He was sent to a doctor, and they found out that his cyst had grown back even bigger than before.

Eventually they did manage to get the cyst under control, and he returned to normal.

Morse said that lots of people believe about this case that the man wasn’t responsible for his behaviour, since it seems to have been caused by a cyst in his brain. But the point that Morse wanted to make was that having a cyst in your brain doesn’t prove that you have no self control at all. He also said that he was suspicious about the man’s claim of having had zero sexual interest in kids before the cyst, but even if we accept this for the sake of the argument, the cyst suddenly turned him pedophile, it still doesn’t prove that he had zero control over his actions. On the contrary, what we know about the case suggests that he had control over his behaviour the first time around, but lost it later on in therapy.
In therapy, he really had strong incentives to behave. The fact that he still sexually assaulted a nurse in front of loads of witnesses, peed on the floor and so on suggests that at that point, he really had lost control of himself and was no longer responsible for what he was doing. But earlier, when he watched child pornography and molested his step daughter, he went to great lengths to keep the whole thing secret, and that included not molesting the step daughter or watching child porn when he thought there was any chance of being found out. You really can’t keep things secret unless you do have some control over what you’re doing.
The main point being: Even if you do have evidence that there’s something “in the brain” of a pedophile or other sex offender, that does nothing to prove that they can’t control their behaviour. If you wonder whether someone can or not, we must actually look at their behaviour.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And, to add on to Dvarg’s point, if someone really, genuinely can’t control their desire to molest children (or commit any other kind of sex crime)? Then they really do need to be incarcerated, whether they like it or not, because they’re going to hurt someone.

I’ve found that pointing this out, although it causes a lot of sulking, also tends to shut down the “but they/I can’t help it!” arguments rather effectively.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

But yeah, some of the demonization of pedophiles might actually be problematic. There are people who seek therapy for sexual thoughts that they realize are about morally wrong actions that they don’t want to act out, or people who actually are sex offenders but nowadays accept that they did something horrible and want to change – and there are also people who criticize therapists who take such cases for “giving support to monsters”. I’ve read some articles about therapists working with such cases at a hospital not terribly far from where I live, and the criticism they get from people who think that you can’t both be concerned about the victims and try to treat abusers and potential abusers. The therapists were like “we do think these are horrible crimes and feel for the victims, and that’s the main reason we’re doing what we’re doing!”.

Also, I think the whole “pedophiles are complete monsters who are nothing like normal people” may lead to similar problems as the “rapists are complete monsters who are nothing like normal people” do – i.e., that people disbelieve all accusations made against non-monstery acquaintances of theirs.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

And, to add on to Dvarg’s point, if someone really, genuinely can’t control their desire to molest children (or commit any other kind of sex crime)? Then they really do need to be incarcerated, whether they like it or not, because they’re going to hurt someone.

THIS. SO. MUCH.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Not wanting psychiatrists to even try to change the behavior of sex offenders is just stupid. Do you want the behavior to happen again? If not, our options are keep that person locked up forever (which we already know we don’t do) or try to figure out how to change their behavior.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Btw, the “can’t help it line” is often used in discussion of cheating, and it freaks me out, because although the context of cheating is different from the context of discussing sex offenses, talking about how people sometimes can’t help themselves when it comes to sex really helps to support rape culture and all that goes with it.

Really, I’ve said in discussions on cheating that I know that I’m not gonna cheat on Husband, because I’ve decided not to, and as an adult human being with no serious brain damage etc. I’m capable of controlling my behaviour in light of my decisions. Lots of people have been pissed off on hearing that, and gone “Oh, so you think you’re so perfect? But no one can actually say for sure that they’re not gonna cheat on their partner, because you never know what might happen!”. So messed up.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If someone makes a “can’t help it” argument about sex that’s a huge blinking red flag, imo. As in, if I hear someone say something like that I will avoid them as much as possible and make sure that I’m never, ever alone with them again.

Catherine von Überwald
Catherine von Überwald
6 years ago

A 12 year old with breasts and a 12 year old without breasts are both 12. I feel this shouldn’t really need to be stated.
If you are not attracted to adults and only want to do sex at children TOO FUCKING BAD. I feel this shouldn’t really need to be stated either.

Argument : But! But but but! It’s important that we acknowledge that some pedophiles can’t help feeling that way, and…

Response : I don’t care.

QFT

There are no mitigating circumstances, no excuses, no “degrees of wrongness”, no “but zir was always a good person!” or “but zir is an artist / did a lot of good in the past / had a hard life / couldn’t help it” or “but zir’s life will be ruined! / it happened in a different time / everybody was okay with it” or anything else that would make being a child rapist or acting on desire to abuse children in any way understandable.
Much less acceptable.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

Whats creepier, ‘can’t help it’ cheating or ‘rational ayn rand’ style cheating?

Skagboy
Skagboy
6 years ago

I appreciate you going after that guy, but I believe him when he says that he was joking about dating a 14-year old. Although I’m not sure, because some of his statements were obviously sincere, like when he admitted to being sociopath…

Jo
Jo
6 years ago

AA’s line that ‘[normalisation of adult/child sex] was a popular sentiment on the internet in general at that time’ is actually hilarious. It may be the least self-aware sentence I’ve seen all month and that’s quite an achievement.

English translation: ‘I live in such a self-contained echo chamber that I am entirely removed from reality.’

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

This whole conversation keeps reminding me of an anecdote about Andrea Dworkin and Alan Ginsberg.

IN her new memoir, ”Heartbreak,” Andrea Dworkin describes a dust-up she had with Allen Ginsberg at the bar mitzvah of a mutual friend’s child. The two writers were very publicly on opposite sides in a contentious debate: Dworkin was rejoicing in a recent Supreme Court decision that, in her words, ”had ruled child pornography illegal”; she saw Ginsberg as ”a pedophile . . . exceptionally aggressive about . . . his constant pursuit of under-age boys.” Atypically anxious to avoid a scene, Dworkin tried hard to elude Ginsberg at the party, but, she says, he would not leave her alone. ”He followed me everywhere I went. . . . He photographed me constantly with a vicious little camera he wore around his neck. . . . Ginsberg told me that he had never met an intelligent person who had the ideas I did. . . . I couldn’t get rid of Allen.” Finally the encounter got really ugly when Ginsberg complained that the political right wanted to throw him in jail. ”Yes, they’re very sentimental,” Dworkin replied. ”I’d kill you.”

Yeah, I’d feel that way too if I saw someone hitting on my friend’s 12 year old kid. Attempts to argue me out of this position because wibble wibble, being a pedophile is so hard, you just don’t understand, are doomed to failure.

Jo
Jo
6 years ago

And just wanted to say thanks to Dvärghundspossen for some really interesting contributions to this discussion.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Got into impassioned drunk-debate with boyfriend last weekend about how to treat/view pedophiles. I think the high point of that discussion was when I declared that I would enact murder upon them with my own two hands, wringing my hands to illustrate this point.

We were at a party.

I have no idea what other people thought of this display.

::thinks::

Saphy gets to more interesting parties than I did!

Sometimes when my partner leaves his laptop to get a drink or something, when he returns there are multiple tabs open of maru and hana. I have no idea how this happens. It is truly baffling. *cough*

It’s one of those Eternal Mysteries, daintydougal. ::nods::

Dvarg, yes about the cheating. I really wonder about the people who do the “But you don’t know!” twaddle when it comes to this sort of stuff. Skeletons, closets, etc.

”Yes, they’re very sentimental,” Dworkin replied. ”I’d kill you.”

I love this. Didn’t know Ginsberg was a predator, not that I know much about him anyway (never had the slightest interest in the Beats).

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

The only thing that really bothers me about being married to an older guy is that dudes like TAA try to use relationships like mine to give legitimacy to their disgusting, exploitative predilections. “I met my husband as an adult, and I was twenty-four when we got married.” “But he’s fourteen years older than you! That’s totally the same as me being into a middle schooler.” No, it is not, you repulsive wad of used-up gum.

I once had a girlfriend seventeen years older than me. But I was 25.

In fact, I think that’s a near-perfect combo: I had the youthful stamina, she had the experience, physical self-knowledge and keenness to experiment with an all too willing partner.

But if she’d been 32 and I’d been 15 it would have been incalculably different, and not just for obvious legal reasons.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100261734/allen-ginsberg-camille-paglia-and-the-literary-champions-of-paedophilia/

Ginsberg, NAMBLA, and why I have a hard time believing that Camille Paglia is actually a feminist.

breadandrosesblogger
6 years ago

This is even worse than the whole banana thing.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

saphy, I’m just reading about NAMBLA – I’d heard the acronym before but didn’t know what it meant. Fucking sickening, and as for the ACLA defending them on a goddamn technicality in the Curley case …

Paglia. ::snorts:: I don’t think I’ve ever believed that shit-eater was a feminist.

ladyrainicorn517
ladyrainicorn517
6 years ago

Has anyone seen that horrible documentary Netflix picked up for some reason, Are All Men Pedophiles?

Same bullshit. “It’s okay to prey on underage girls because all men want to.” EvoPsych, teen porn, blah blah blah. I couldn’t make it through the whole thing, but I’m guessing they did not end up attempting to describe the experience for the victim (sorry, “underage partner”). Of course not. What the dicks want, the dicks get.

And I think it’s no accident that these arguments pop up in the Manosphere with some regularity. They use exactly the same justifications for desires they think they shouldn’t have to control. “B-but how are we supposed to not rape/demean/doxx/vilify women when they are just there, living their lives in public, in their bodies?”

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

I see plenty of teenage girls emerging from my daughter’s school on a daily basis, and I genuinely don’t fancy any of them – and I equally genuinely can’t fathom what I’d get out of any kind of sexual liaison with them. Not least because I prefer my partners to know what they’re doing and to be able to articulate what they want from me.

But then sex for me is a far more complicated and emotionally/sensually involved process than just sticking my dick into someone. Largely because I’m a mature adult.

Ally S
6 years ago

Camile Paglia supports child sexual abuse? But she’s an anti-feminist! Everyone knows that anti-feminists are obviously opposed to sexual abuse. Gosh, what’s wrong with feminists being suspicious of anti-feminists by default? Such irrational ideologues.

Zolnier
Zolnier
6 years ago

I find it fascinating that in MRA land the average man will supposedly turn into a rapist upon being exposed to a member of the opposite sex who’s even barely pubescent, and yet men still be dominant in every sphere. And they think women commit all the crime in the world, so who should be running the world? Children, robots, people from Real Life? Or maybe whatever planet “Brights” come from.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Who should be running the world?

The Furrinati.

Except they really do already, but don’t tell the scrotosphericals that.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Ginsberg, NAMBLA, and why I have a hard time believing that Camille Paglia is actually a feminist.

I’ve never liked Camille Paglia. And now I regret not being at home today. I have a book of Ginsberg’s that I won as a prize in a regional high school journalism contest. I’ve looked past his sketchiness in the past because I’ve treasured the memory of winning that competition and wanted to keep it. Now I know about the NAMBLA thing, I think where I want to keep Ginsberg’s book is the trash can.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Sounds like just the book for a shredder.

Kevin K
Kevin K
6 years ago

Well, one thing’s for sure…the internet is permanent.

I’m not going to go back and wade through all of the discussion, but I do hate the fact that we don’t have a word in the English language to describe someone who likes children but is not sexually attracted to them. Or even its obverse. My ex was not a fan of children — pedophobe is probably a good neologism. On the other hand, I genuinely like children (in small “uncle-sized” doses).

Pedophile is, I think, an egregiously bad word to describe what’s going on here, because “love” (the ‘phile’ part of that word) is NOT what we’re talking about. Pedophiles don’t “love” children. They use children.

It is, however, the only word we’ve got, whether we use it in a colloquial or a formal-psychodiagnostic sense. Because there’s no word for “user of children” in the lexicon.

Ally S
6 years ago

Perhaps you can make a nice bonfire.

Zolnier
Zolnier
6 years ago

The Furrinati are better world controllers than some white as snow ten year old twins I know of.

Malitia
Malitia
6 years ago

Why am I suddenly thinking about this comic: http://www.onipress.com/title/i-was-the-cat *confused stare*

Falconer
6 years ago

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100261734/allen-ginsberg-camille-paglia-and-the-literary-champions-of-paedophilia/

Ginsberg, NAMBLA, and why I have a hard time believing that Camille Paglia is actually a feminist.

Not that I know much about Ginsberg, but this is why you shouldn’t have heroes, kids. They’ll only break your heart.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

That book cover is perfect, Malitia. Furrinati world domination!

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

Makes me think about that whole Zimmer-Bradley awfulness again. Should I burn those books of hers that I have because she was actually an awful human being? What about the fact that her daughter, in revealing her abuse, also emphasised the positive impact that her mother had had on individuals within the community of sci fi and fantasy writers? Does that make reading her books actually ok? Or is her daughter’s blessing upon her mother’s written works just not enough to make up for what that woman did to children?

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

So ethically confused. 🙁

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

For me, unless that positive good was something on the level of saving lives, it wouldn’t come close to balancing with the atrocious things ZB did. Mind you I wouldn’t have to make the call, because I couldn’t stand Mists of Avalon and chucked it out years ago.

A Rose for Emily
A Rose for Emily
6 years ago

@cassandrakitty:

A lot of convicted pedophiles don’t have a paraphilia either, they’re just opportunistic predators.

I’m not an expert, but it seems to me like a sexual attraction to prepubescent children is inherently a paraphilia. It may be that people have sexually abused children without experiencing sexual attraction, and hence “don’t have a paraphilia,” but I can’t tell if that’s what you mean. If they’re actually attracted to children, I’d call that a paraphilia.

Malitia
Malitia
6 years ago

kittehserf: It is a comic about a Furrinati overlord in the quite literal sense. He spent most of his lives trying to take over the world (occasionally with quite ruthless methods) and now is letting the main character writing his memoirs. This is the internetz we are cat worshipers already. :3

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

By TAA logic, a 13 year old with a D cup is more mature than a 33 year old with an A cup. It makes no sense whatsoever. I know misogynists like to see us as no more than a walking pair of breasts but in actuality there isn’t a connection between brain power and maturity and breast size.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, when my breasts first got big at age 16 I saw a tabloid that said there was a study “proving” that large breasted women were less intelligent than small breasted women. So began my introduction to that stereotype, which I would experience many, many more times. Yay body shaming!

A Rose for Emily
A Rose for Emily
6 years ago

By TAA logic, a 13 year old with a D cup is more mature than a 33 year old with an A cup. It makes no sense whatsoever. I know misogynists like to see us as no more than a walking pair of breasts but in actuality there isn’t a connection between brain power and maturity and breast size.

You have to factor in the misogyny aspect. If you have no interest in a mutual relationship, intelligent conversation, shared responsibility, or any of that, then all women with breasts and hips are interchangeable with each other (but not with girls who don’t have secondary sex characteristics yet).

Chaos-Engineer
Chaos-Engineer
6 years ago

If we call them pedophiles when they aren’t, that opens to the door to them wasting everyone’s time by talking about pedo vs ephebephilia

Language evolves over time, and in common usage “pedophile” now means something like “a person who commits, or who openly expresses a desire to commit, crimes related to sexual activity with minors.”

So the people who are wasting time are the ones who say we can’t call those people pedophiles when they clearly are.

Also: The word “literally” can be used to add emphasis to a figurative statement: “He literally hit the ceiling”. The phrase “I could care less” is meant ironically and should be interpreted as “I don’t care at all.” “They” can be used as a singular pronoun for a person of unknown or unspecified gender: “Somebody left their keys in the lobby.” Oxford commas are a matter of personal preference and you can use them or not, as long as you’re consistent across the document. Arguing about any of this is a waste of time. I think that’s everything…

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
6 years ago

Almost off topic, but I have a friend whose father punched Alan Ginsberg in the stomach. He was a huge fan, saw him in a bar, walked up to him to say, “hey, I’m a big fan of your work”, and Ginsberg gave him this snooty, really belittling dismissal and called him “little boy”. So he socked him.

I don’t condone violence usually, but god do I fucking hate Alan Ginsberg.

maistrechat
6 years ago

This hits pretty close to home for a number of reasons. I’ve got Many Thoughts on this subject so I’m going to split it up to avoid wall-of-text issues.

(Content note: sexual abuse)

Recently, I’ve been in a situation that has put me face-to-face with sexual abuse cases. It’s been pretty rough, but a couple of the situations are relevent here.

A teenager accused her stepfather of molesting her repeatedly over several years. After the most recent rape, she apparently decided she had had enough and went to the police. When the stepfather was interviewed by the police, he denied having done anything. When the police mentioned that they had obtained DNA evidence from the most recent case, he admitted that it was “probably his” because he did have sex with his 14 year old stepdaughter.

His justification was that he was drunk mistook her for her mother.

The fact that he thought this was a reasonable defense was, in itself, upsetting to me. How does that work? At what point are you so drunk that you can’t tell the difference between a 14 year old girl and a 40 year old woman?

Given the medical evidence, his statement really boiled down to “I thought it was my wife I was raping”

Rape culture is alive and well. Thankfully, the police didn’t buy his excuses.

I feel like the “estrus means consent-capable” argument is a close relative to “somebody involved was drunk so it doesn’t count”.

maistrechat
6 years ago

I keep coming across the argument that the child sexual abuse statistics are overreported because “many of those are “15 and 16 year olds who have chosen to become prostitutes of their own free will”

I recently met some of those 15 and 16 year olds. Spoiler alert: they were still very much children, and “of their own free will” meant “coerced into it by 30 year old ‘boyfriends’ who gave them drugs, refused to feed them, and held their possessions hostage'”

So yeah, they weren’t grabbed from their homes and put in chains and forced to have sex for money at gunpoint. That still doesn’t mean that they made the decision without coercion and with full knowledge of the consequences involved.