Are women turning against feminism? Over on The Spearhead, WF Price sets forth the proposition that “the younger generation of women [is] rejecting ‘feminism’ in stronger terms than I’ve ever witnessed in my life.”
His proof for this? A Tumblr blog called Women Against Feminism, featuring a couple dozen photos of women holding signs denouncing feminism. Or what they think feminism is, anyway.
Some of these women are fairly articulate about the source of their hostility against feminism: they’re traditionalists who don’t like being judged for their choices:
Others seem to be reacting against stereotypical notions of feminism that bear little relation to the real thing:
Still others have somewhat more, well, idiosyncratic reasons:
For whatever reason, quite a few of the women posting these pictures are from Poland.
At least here in the US, it’s not news that a lot of women reject feminism – or at least the feminist label. There are plenty of traditionalist women who reject the central tenets of feminism. And there are many others who may share some feminist beliefs but don’t want to call themselves feminists, in part because of the bad rap feminists get in the media and, these days, online. Anyone who’s been a feminist for any length of time has heard women (and some men) announce that “I’m not a feminist, but …” and then follow that statement with a sentiment that is, by any reasonable definition, feminist.
Now some of these “I’m not a feminist, but” types are posting pictures like this, using what is essentially a feminist analysis to criticize what they see as a central shortcoming of feminism:
Naturally, WF Price has a somewhat different explanation for this alleged trend.
What I think is going on here is that younger women need men more than their older, feminist counterparts did in their heyday.
And why is that? Because times are hard. And so even though men today are struggling, women are struggling even more, and so – in WF Price’s imagination, anyway — they’ve come to appreciate what men can do for them.
The less men have – and the less men there are in general – the more women need them. Without men or without men of means, there can be no surplus, no you-go-grrrrl feminism, no fancy restaurants and no nice houses. Everything just goes to crap.
Heck, Price argues, even men without jobs make better roommates for women than other women, because, you know, they can open jars and stuff:
[W]hat use could a man possibly be if he has no money to speak of? Only someone who has never lived with a woman could find that one hard to answer. A healthy young man with no money can drive, carry things, fix things, protect his mate, solve problems, save money, do chores — the list goes on. And when he gets a job, he will pay his way and do all these things, even if he makes less than his girlfriend. It’s a much, much better deal for a woman than a female roommate.
According to Price, feminism had whatever successes it did have in the past because the economy was booming.
What created this “independent woman” myth was the great prosperity of the baby boomer era, which lasted from roughly the mid 60s to the mid 2000s. Men abounded, and they were flush with cash. Businesses could afford to hire superfluous cute girls and give them nice salaries. Family courts could rob men blind and they’d still have enough left over for a reasonable lifestyle and a chance to start over. Men were harvesting the fat of the land, and there was more than enough to go around.
Huh. I lived through that baby boomer era, and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t one giant materialistic orgy. There were, I vaguely recall, more than a couple of pretty severe recessions. And back in the heyday of second wave feminism in the seventies there was something called “stagflation.”
But let’s not get in the way of WF Price’s little fairy tale. In the baby boomer era, everyone prospered. Now, everyone is poor. Or at least the young people are:
When you’re poor, life is a lot easier if you can share with someone, and nobody shares more with girls than boys. So merely finding a man to share burdens is a considerable relief to young women. Is a feminist going to fix a car, carry a TV upstairs or take her to the hospital to give birth? Will the feminist voluntarily share any of what she earns with the young woman? Yeah, right…
Apparently in Price’s world “the feminist” is essentially a female version of Scrooge McDuck.
Male scarcity in either numbers or resources effectively prevents feminism. Surplus enables it. In a sense, one could say that feminism’s own downfall is built in to the ideology itself, because it contributes to male scarcity.
Wars between the sexes accomplish nothing in the long run, but they do highlight the complementary, interdependent nature of the sexes: when one sex “beats” the other, both lose. Today’s young women seem to understand that a lot better than their foolish mothers ever did.
In the comments, the Spearhead regulars are less forgiving of “foolish” women than Price is. Regular commenter Geographybeefinalisthimself suggests that antifeminist men should be something less than gracious in their (alleged) victory:
Even if women are in fact rejecting feminism (and I treat this with a lot of suspicion), I don’t see why men should not be vindictive since feminists were pretty damn vindictive to men (myself included, though I am well aware that I am not the only one) when male power was a myth.
Since young men got paid back for discrimination that wasn’t their fault, I don’t see why they shouldn’t turn around and do likewise to a subsequent generation of females. If feminism can come to an end now (and I am not convinced that it is dead yet), it also could have come to an end twenty years ago. I always take the attitude that if something can happen now, it could have happened many years ago as well.
Someone calling himself Lastango, meanwhile, indulges himself in some hypothetical Atlas Shrugging:
[T]he tide is going out and it’s increasingly obvious feminism has been swimming naked, keeping its head above water only because it could float on government money. Unfortunately for feminists, this is happening at the very moment men are increasingly aware of having been demonized and exploited during the past 40 years, and Atlas is starting to shrug… he’ll be staying dry, on the beach, instead of swimming out to rescue a drowning political tribe of privileged, entitled women who have been using him for their own gain.
The misogynists of the manosphere are never quite so happy as when they contemplate women being punished.
The women posting pictures to the Women Against Feminism blog might be surprised by how ungentlemanly these fellows really are.
NOTE: I cropped the pics from Women Against Feminism to save space and highlight the signs.
Ah, the troll’s comment is back and it’s pathetically typical.
What a sad existence people like that must live.
“I have no rebuttal, but I don’t like the way you look! Ha! Take that! Someone you will never meet and whose opinion you wouldn’t respect anyway has unsolicited opinions about your body to share! Also, you’re gay (because that’s a bad thing?) or not gay but not having teh sexes (also a bad thing?)!”
You just know that after they hit “Post Comment” they high five themselves for being so clever and not at all ignorant toads.
Trolls: the toads even cane toads find toxic.
@strivingally
Oh yes, it’s actually a good way to make money, especially if you’re a woman. Seriously, check it out and you’ll see a ton of people offering this exact service.
Why is it so popular? There are a lot of companies that use people holding up signs to make it appear that their product is “legit” and awesome. A lot of scummy companies use fiverr to get written reviews, video reviews, and then these sign reviews. Of course, some people use it for other reasons; boys use them to “prove” to their friends and family that they have a hot girlfriend, tumblr blogs use them to make it appear like the have fans, and then you get political reasons like this. Back when Romney was running for election, there were people trying to buy Romney supporters holding up signs.
Some people (like me) have a limit on what type of clients we take. Others are desperate and can’t say no to anything. Mostly, people outside the US don’t even know what they’re writing or saying when they take these jobs.
As for Elam spending the “security” money on them, it would not surprise me. They’ve already been caught paying users to comment on articles.
Paid internet confederates?
It’s so simple and without any hint of pride or integrity.
It should have occurred to me as a possibility.
URGENT UPDATE FROM FEMINIST HIGH COMMAND: Men appear to have found a way to adapt our traditional misandric chairs and undermine our campaign of mild discomfort:
http://kiltme.typepad.com/kilts/images/2008/02/12/kiltbarstool.jpg
(A ‘stool for kilt wearers’ if you were wondering)
Truth! The closet has so much in common with internalized misogyny that it’s not even funny.
As Dan Savage once said, homophobia is just misogyny’s little brother. It’s not just closeted gay men, either. I think it was LBT who posted a link to a conversation about g0ys, who acknowledge being attracted to men, but are hyper-masculine about it and believe anal sex permanently defiles your manliness.
Saphy, I’m laughing so much I can hardly breathe!
I missed a whole page of comments. Daddy longlegs type spiders are the very worst. Especially if they fly as well but tarantula types are ok, they’re just like mice with too many legs and generally seem pretty chill. It’s the unpredictable flailing that I can’t stand.
I was at an animal sanctuary and they had a bit where they took some of the reptiles and creepy crawlies out. The lady (!) was showing around this awesome blue tarantula guy saying, ‘don’t worry, I won’t come too close to people faces’. It was only after she had put it away she explained they can jump like 4 foot if they so desire. Also shoot poisonous hairs. There were a few screams.
One of my best friends has a magic talent for opening things. I have never seen her fail. Not only can she get the lid off anything, but she can also do it with seemingly no effort. It was particularly funny, because I was living with three guys at the time and also owned an incredibly stubborn (read: badly designed) thermos flask that always managed to seal itself shut if I put anything hot in it. It used to amuse me to watch my roommates huff and puff and heave and turn red, eyes and veins popping trying to get the damn thing open, then she’d come over and gracefully twist the lid off with no visible strain. When the man scarcity problem really starts to impact on my daily life, I’m going to form a commune with her as the illustrious jar-opening leader.
I know a gay/bi kilt-wearing couple who would appreciate that bar stool.
@Kim
Are you joking? England is where giant house spiders come from.
http://www.spidatrap.com/Arachnophobia/Giant%20House%20Spider
@Julie
I really hate those things. Like. Really hate. Why are garden spiders small and cute but the ones who want to come inside giant bastards who don’t even make webs? Fo’real. If I’m by myself and one of those suckers shows himself he’s getting smashed. End o’ conversation. And it makes me feel really bad. Gah.
This had never occurred to me but it makes so much sense. Never trust the internet!
This is as pathetic as the 4chan fake feminist troll hashtags.
If these women are being paid to hold signs and they don’t even know what the says are saying, that’s a whole extra level of sheer depressingness.
Question because I’m ignorant: why would this be an especially popular way to make money in Poland?
@weirwoodtreehugger
It’s horrible how deep buying shill reviews, posts, videos, etc. really goes. It’s not just fiverr, mturk is another site that buys shill comments and reviews. If you have no soul and don’t mind your words, photos, videos, etc. being used for whatever reason, you can make some decent cash. I remember when a certain cable company was offering a few bucks for positive comments on their webpage… it’s so damn shady.
er, what the signs are saying. Sorry for commenting before coffee.
Around here, spiders only get removed when they threaten my husband. That would be any time they’re within view of him. Guy does not like spiders. I generally bare-hand them to the door. Spiders are cute. Wasps get the cup-and-piece-of-paper ride to the door. Jar lids either get a rubber glove or the bottle opener to break the seal, though I admit it’s been a while since I had a jar I couldn’t open bare-handed.
The husband is responsible for getting things off high shelves, though. That and putting books away.
My mother used to live where they had what were known as “aggressive house spiders”, which used to regularly inhabit her shower. Her truce with the spiders involved a towel hung over the side of the tub so they could climb out again, and a washcloth in the sink for the same purpose. Though I like spiders, it was a little unnerving going into the shower, which had a brown roof, knowing there might be a brown spider up there, and being unable to see anything as small as a spider if it were further than a few inches away if I didn’t have my glasses on.
@grumpycatisagirl
It’s not necessarily that it’s popular because they’re Poland, it’s just that people from Poland and other non-english speaking countries (especially poor countries) flock to these type of jobs because it’s an easy and quick way to make money. They are also more willing to go further than American models (like showing more skin, saying really horrible things) because they need the money and whatever they do or say likely won’t effect them negatively like it would your typical American fiverr model. That’s why a lot of American fiverr models wear masks or keep their faces out of the pictures, whereas the non-American models typically don’t.
I think this is my favorite “I don’t need feminism” post because of the cognitive dissonance.
And I love that they had to kick this off by using paid shills from fiverr.com. Perfect.
@ Robert – Well spotted and stated.
@OP
[Some of these women are fairly articulate about the source of their hostility against feminism: they’re traditionalists who don’t like being judged for their choices:]
I hope that wasn’t intended to mock her ESL skills.
***
I remember seeing some of the criticism Agnieszka Radwanska (a Pole) received after appearing in the ESPN The Body issue (noteworthily not ageist; that issue I believe also featured septuagenarian Gary Player); it was church-generated along the lines of posing nude’s making her undesirable wife material. It seemed bizarrely unrealistic – as if being an “old maid” were the worst possible fate that could befall even an elite athlete who’s already won all the money she’ll ever need, or as if she couldn’t pick and choose anyway. I also heard her discussing why she chose to do it and the response a couple of times, and she did seem (if memory serves) to suggest that traditionalist attitudes were fairly prevalent.
I know they shouldn’t…but these sorts of statements make me feel bad about myself. I understand that these women are traditionalists and I really don’t care what they do, but why does the fact that I want to be more than just a stay at home mom make me not “a true woman?” Working in mental health has been my dream for a while now and I will continue to work hard until I get there.
Yet because I’m 22 and I’ve never had a boyfriend in my life, I sometimes feel as if it’ll never happen. Statements like these traditionalist women are making, only drive that knife in deeper. It sometimes feels like they’re flaunting their relationships at women like me as if to say “I’m a perfect housewife with a husband/boyfriend and you, with your college degree are all alone…. Ha! Ha! Ha!”
Still, I’m not super girly and have never been. I’ve often wondered if that’s the reason guys don’t notice me. But that’s just not me. Why can’t I be a “true woman” too? I still hope there are men out there who like women who aren’t ultra-feminine left…
I guess I’m reading way too much into these photos and seeing my insecurities where they don’t exist. Regardless, the Manosphere is not good for my self-image.
@Mnemosyne
I understand why you feel like that. But look at it the other way. For along time that was the image feminism projected that of anti-stay at home woman. Even if that was never meant or explicitly stated by the movement, It was the message that was received. Like most movements feminism made mistakes starting out. Stay at home woman felt much the same way you do. Just for different reasons. The pain stay at home woman felt is one of the messaging mistakes/misunderstandings that feminism will never fully shake off.
People have been predicting the death of feminism from the day after the bra-burning that wasn’t — ho-hum. So many feminist ideas have strongly penetrated our culture (except for an angry and vocal minority) that people only see the ones that haven’t yet made it. The fact that most criticisms of feminism as evil rely on obvious straw-man misrepresentations demonstrates the lack of real arguments.
I have been meaning to post a link to a virulently anti-feminist column written by a woman, which seems relevant here because of its prediction that feminism will die out and its reliance on obvious straw-man mischaracterizations of feminism. It’s entitled “Do Men Hate Women – Justifiably” and states: “In short, women hold the trump card in our feminized society, and men know it. If I were a man, I’d shy away from women too. What a horrible, twisted, mixed-up world.” http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/do-men-hate-women-justifiably/
In our house, I open the bottles because my wife has weak hands; but recently, I’ve had to use a tool or call for our son, who can open anything. On the other hand, when we want beef stew I cut up the beef and she browns it, then I peel and cut up the veggies and she does the seasoning. I can’t cook anything that can’t be done in a microwave but I have more time than she does. We are both very stubborn and opinionated people but we have managed to find a way to stay married for 30 years, in part because I have no hang-ups (or not many, anyway) about what a man’s role should be. This is precisely what the MRAs don’t get — they seem to think that if you cut up veggies for a stew you might as well cut off your testicles and throw them into the stew too.
@Lea: regarding one of your earlier comments, one of the common human failings I’ve noticed is the tendency to feel that someone who has made different choices that you have is implicitly criticizing your choices. If a woman decides (for example) to shave her legs, obviously social conditioning influences her choice, but that doesn’t mean that she’s not as much of a feminist as someone who doesn’t shave. As a pro-feminist man, I’ve always thought that at heart feminism was about choices — that you get to decide whether to shave your legs for whatever reason seems good to you.