Are women turning against feminism? Over on The Spearhead, WF Price sets forth the proposition that “the younger generation of women [is] rejecting ‘feminism’ in stronger terms than I’ve ever witnessed in my life.”
His proof for this? A Tumblr blog called Women Against Feminism, featuring a couple dozen photos of women holding signs denouncing feminism. Or what they think feminism is, anyway.
Some of these women are fairly articulate about the source of their hostility against feminism: they’re traditionalists who don’t like being judged for their choices:
Others seem to be reacting against stereotypical notions of feminism that bear little relation to the real thing:
Still others have somewhat more, well, idiosyncratic reasons:
For whatever reason, quite a few of the women posting these pictures are from Poland.
At least here in the US, it’s not news that a lot of women reject feminism – or at least the feminist label. There are plenty of traditionalist women who reject the central tenets of feminism. And there are many others who may share some feminist beliefs but don’t want to call themselves feminists, in part because of the bad rap feminists get in the media and, these days, online. Anyone who’s been a feminist for any length of time has heard women (and some men) announce that “I’m not a feminist, but …” and then follow that statement with a sentiment that is, by any reasonable definition, feminist.
Now some of these “I’m not a feminist, but” types are posting pictures like this, using what is essentially a feminist analysis to criticize what they see as a central shortcoming of feminism:
Naturally, WF Price has a somewhat different explanation for this alleged trend.
What I think is going on here is that younger women need men more than their older, feminist counterparts did in their heyday.
And why is that? Because times are hard. And so even though men today are struggling, women are struggling even more, and so – in WF Price’s imagination, anyway — they’ve come to appreciate what men can do for them.
The less men have – and the less men there are in general – the more women need them. Without men or without men of means, there can be no surplus, no you-go-grrrrl feminism, no fancy restaurants and no nice houses. Everything just goes to crap.
Heck, Price argues, even men without jobs make better roommates for women than other women, because, you know, they can open jars and stuff:
[W]hat use could a man possibly be if he has no money to speak of? Only someone who has never lived with a woman could find that one hard to answer. A healthy young man with no money can drive, carry things, fix things, protect his mate, solve problems, save money, do chores — the list goes on. And when he gets a job, he will pay his way and do all these things, even if he makes less than his girlfriend. It’s a much, much better deal for a woman than a female roommate.
According to Price, feminism had whatever successes it did have in the past because the economy was booming.
What created this “independent woman” myth was the great prosperity of the baby boomer era, which lasted from roughly the mid 60s to the mid 2000s. Men abounded, and they were flush with cash. Businesses could afford to hire superfluous cute girls and give them nice salaries. Family courts could rob men blind and they’d still have enough left over for a reasonable lifestyle and a chance to start over. Men were harvesting the fat of the land, and there was more than enough to go around.
Huh. I lived through that baby boomer era, and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t one giant materialistic orgy. There were, I vaguely recall, more than a couple of pretty severe recessions. And back in the heyday of second wave feminism in the seventies there was something called “stagflation.”
But let’s not get in the way of WF Price’s little fairy tale. In the baby boomer era, everyone prospered. Now, everyone is poor. Or at least the young people are:
When you’re poor, life is a lot easier if you can share with someone, and nobody shares more with girls than boys. So merely finding a man to share burdens is a considerable relief to young women. Is a feminist going to fix a car, carry a TV upstairs or take her to the hospital to give birth? Will the feminist voluntarily share any of what she earns with the young woman? Yeah, right…
Apparently in Price’s world “the feminist” is essentially a female version of Scrooge McDuck.
Male scarcity in either numbers or resources effectively prevents feminism. Surplus enables it. In a sense, one could say that feminism’s own downfall is built in to the ideology itself, because it contributes to male scarcity.
Wars between the sexes accomplish nothing in the long run, but they do highlight the complementary, interdependent nature of the sexes: when one sex “beats” the other, both lose. Today’s young women seem to understand that a lot better than their foolish mothers ever did.
In the comments, the Spearhead regulars are less forgiving of “foolish” women than Price is. Regular commenter Geographybeefinalisthimself suggests that antifeminist men should be something less than gracious in their (alleged) victory:
Even if women are in fact rejecting feminism (and I treat this with a lot of suspicion), I don’t see why men should not be vindictive since feminists were pretty damn vindictive to men (myself included, though I am well aware that I am not the only one) when male power was a myth.
Since young men got paid back for discrimination that wasn’t their fault, I don’t see why they shouldn’t turn around and do likewise to a subsequent generation of females. If feminism can come to an end now (and I am not convinced that it is dead yet), it also could have come to an end twenty years ago. I always take the attitude that if something can happen now, it could have happened many years ago as well.
Someone calling himself Lastango, meanwhile, indulges himself in some hypothetical Atlas Shrugging:
[T]he tide is going out and it’s increasingly obvious feminism has been swimming naked, keeping its head above water only because it could float on government money. Unfortunately for feminists, this is happening at the very moment men are increasingly aware of having been demonized and exploited during the past 40 years, and Atlas is starting to shrug… he’ll be staying dry, on the beach, instead of swimming out to rescue a drowning political tribe of privileged, entitled women who have been using him for their own gain.
The misogynists of the manosphere are never quite so happy as when they contemplate women being punished.
The women posting pictures to the Women Against Feminism blog might be surprised by how ungentlemanly these fellows really are.
NOTE: I cropped the pics from Women Against Feminism to save space and highlight the signs.
“I don’t need feminism because the Men’s Rights Activists offer real help to people in need. I am sure I can think of at least one example, just give me a moment.”
Urgh, that person in the top photo was wearing the Targaryen insignia. I think Khaleesi would find her quite silly. Also, what *is* that weird little flag thingy on their piece of paper?
Hi mammotheers!
Opium4themasses, snort 🙂
I put on mascara this morning, scrubbed some mysterious sticky spots from the kitchen floor (insider sources say there was an ice cream incident in the vicinity), changed sheets on my kids’ beds, and made tostadas for dinner. I did not know these actions were incompatible with feminism. I just thought that doing them was part of being a parent, spouse, homeowner, and person who likes fluffy eyelashes. I will never get off the High Council’s shit list at this rate.
She’s probably a Viserys fan.
There are two mra reactions to this.Despite Price listing all the skills that apparently only young fit men can do,there will be plenty of mra’s complaining about the awful burden that puts on them.
A lot of pregnant women get a craving for pickles,which means triple misandry to mra’s. After been spermjacked and before being robbed and left for an alpha they have to go through the nightmare of opening a jar.Oh won’t someone think of the poor souls.
However Price doesn’t see this as a cruel burden but as a super power that only men have (apparently only fit young men) and one day soon all the women of the world will be running to men,jars in hand,begging for help and they will turn away leaving us to open them on our own or buy a jar opener.
I think I’ve just looked into the future and seen hell.
So women are incapable of carrying things, solving problems, driving cars, fixing things and doing chores?
Man, all the nurses I work with are going to be pissed when they find out their jobs don’t exist.
Can I move to where you live? Because in my country, one of the two major parties keeps insisting on having a political agenda about my sex life. Also my medical decisions, whether or not I have a right not to be raped with impunity, and whether my employers should be allowed to pay me less than a man.
Economic hardship interferes with a woman’s ability to open jars. It is known.
(That’s one of the women against feminism, not a MRA, of course.)
The whole feminism being against homemaking smacks so much of the mommy wars, where privileged folk acted as if it was a new thing for women to work outside of the household. Some of them were feminists, but a lot were just rich people looking down on other rich people. Funny how much they scream when they are the ones getting picked on.
Also I was pretty sure that “doing chores” was a thing that women were supposed to do, according to MRAs, and that men having to do chores was the most misandrous of misandry because cleaning is too feminine for their manlinesses and also men are too busy breadwinning at their manscience jobs 30 hours a day (to support those hypergamous wimminz and their bonbon habits!) to do simple domestic tasks (which are so beneath them anyways because augh how womanly)? Why do you have to be so divisive, Mr. Price? Are you trying to cause a schism in the grand MRA movement with your spouting of heresies?
(I am having cider slushies this evening, excuse me – and do tell me to shut up – if I’m not making sense. I mean, it took me like an entire minute and the use of spellcheck to figure out how to spell “beneath,” so.)
Also, for more hilarity, check out this creepy PM:
The messages:
http://imgur.com/a/JJixu
Where I found it:
http://www.reddit.com/r/creepyPMs/comments/2b9wkg/you_guys_are_going_to_love_this_one_sexism/
Shorter version: women who have sex outside of marriage and gay people are horrible sinners! But God is okay with me having sex with nonvirgins because I help out at church. Also, why won’t you have sex with me? The fact that, as a bisexual nonvirgin, I think you are a whore and a sinner shouldn’t mean I don’t get to get my dick wet.
I assumed Mr. Price was talking about stereotypical manly chores, like chopping wood or mowing grass. The stuff that women can’t do because we explode upon contact with a weed whacker.
Ooohhhhh, all those “manly” chores that are “outside” the domicile and so don’t exist if you live in an apartment. Except taking out the trash, I guess. So basically what I’m hearing is, get an apartment, ladies, and men are still useless chumps, provided you’re capable of carrying a bag of garbage. Are women capable of carrying bags of garbage? Inquiring minds wish to know.
Also I’d ask if people even still chopped wood anymore but my mother-in-law heats her place mainly with a wood stove so I guess I know the answer to that. I wonder who chops her wood. I should ask sometime.
I admit that I have entertained the thought of moving in with my best friend, who is a man. He is extremely tidy, and I am a good cook, and I am somewhat untidy, and he is a terrible cook.
But I insist on opening all of the jars. Because I am not a Polish anti-feminist.
Obligatory 2-dot MRA ellipsis: ..
You can just buy firewood at gas stations or even have it delivered.
It’s sad to see so many women misled about what feminism is. I’ve certainly been told I’m not feminist enough because I chose to homemaker route a few times. A woman once (recently) looked me over and informed me, gesturing to my face and hair (which I was quite excited to have had time to play with that evening), “You don’t NEED all this” is the most contemptuous tone. As if I needed her to tell me that. I don’t NEED high thread count sheets, pets, clever friends, oral sex or scented soap either, but I enjoy having them in my life. Luckily, I know I’m feminist as fuck and I’m not about to be told what to do or be by anyone. I had friends shamed for their choices by other women. They believed other people when they defined them to them. They received the message that they weren’t feminists and they believe it today. They’re women who carried boot knives to school as teens, supported households, were no strangers to dirty, hard work and long hours, had abortions or didn’t and got to be told what doormats and welfare queens they were for raising unplanned kids. They survived rapes, beat back attempted rapists with their fists or just got lucky and got away, overcame abuse etc, but they got told they were doormats for baking and shaving their legs or some shit. (Yes, that happens) by women who saw themselves as ‘proper feminists” and it stuck. I certainly went through my chill girl who was “one of the guys” phase. I get where the disconnect happens and I feel like there but for the grace of Glob go I. It’s sad. It really is. Still, I can’t help but laugh and think, “Have at the misogynist dudes, ladies. They’re all yours”. Hopefully, most of them will grow out of it. They won’t let people tell them how to be women or how to be proud, strong women who stand up for their rights forever.
Yes, you can be a feminist and like traditional feminine things. You can take pride in cooking, primping, nurturing etc. Women, men and neutral/other gendered people can be proud of those and any other skills that are important to them. Skills are skills and being associated with women does not make them less valuable or enjoyable. Being good at traditionally “girly” things does not mean you can’t be good at other things. A friend of mine is brilliant under the hood of a car. She’s a beautician by trade. I can think of two doctors I know who are also doting moms. One is also an artist. I know a tech specialist who is also a sailor and a dad. I know teachers who are also parents and farmers. I know a Realtor who is also an equestrian and talented at working with special needs kids. I know a nurse who became a carpenter when she grew tired of nursing. She’s also a biker. I know a scientist who became a construction worker and then a successful artist. I know an accountant who is a talented gamer who dabbles in stand up and improv. No one has to be good at just one thing or only things that are traditionally associated with a particular gender. I feel sorry for people who feel bound and caged by such arbitrary rules of who they can be or what they can do. A man who wants to have a rose garden and raise babies is not being a man wrong. A woman who would rather raise cobras than children and would rather tinker with her truck than pick shoes to go with her bag isn’t being a woman wrong either. That doesn’t mean that everyone else has to like what they like. What is allowed is not mandatory. Why can’t people grasp that? It’s simple enough. Deconstructing gender roles can be done without shitting on what we think of as femininity. Rather, it opens options up for everyone to explore their own interests and develop the skills and interests they prefer regardless of gender. That should not be threatening to anyone. It should be liberating.
@ Andrea Jones:
Manly men know exactly how to deal with spiders in the bathtub.
Greebo, the flag is the Polish flag. (I looked it up.)
Nope, Price foiled us again! We still need a dude to make decisions, save money, drive us places, and carry the TV upstairs.
For all the people who have trouble opening jars, the thing that works every fucking time for me is to just bang it lightly against a hard surface- usually I do the side of the counter. Just kind of firmly tap it, once, maybe twice, and it opens super easily. And this is coming from someone who doesn’t have the upper body strength to do a single pushup… so if it works for me it will work for anyone.
:: waves at the new commenters ::
Have a complimentary welcome package!
Yeah, I’ve never really gotten why some people feel the need to shit on women for their choices. But I also dislike it when women claim that being a homemaker is by its nature a feminist undertaking. Don’t get me wrong, I by no means think it’s contrary to feminism to be a homemaker (hell, I’d love if I could afford to be!), but I find it awkward to claim that anything, simply by virtue of its being a choice made by a woman, is feminist. Yes, feminism supports women’s (and men’s, really!) ability to choose how to live and structure their lives, but that doesn’t make the choices they make innately feminist. I’d argue the same for women who work, though: the choice to work isn’t innately feminist either. It’s simply an option that feminism has enabled.
Bluh, basically people need to stop shitting on other people’s choices that affect them literally not at all, and also to stop assuming that their chosen choices are the One True Way of their preferred ideology.
Um, that creepy pm guy. Soldiers returning from war kill themselves because of the gay? The fact that gay people exist causes PTSD now?