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On The Spearhead, the regulars reject women rejecting feminism

From Women Against Feminism
From Women Against Feminism

Are women turning against feminism? Over on The Spearhead, WF Price sets forth the proposition that “the younger generation of women [is] rejecting ‘feminism’ in stronger terms than I’ve ever witnessed in my life.”

His proof for this? A Tumblr blog called Women Against Feminism, featuring a couple dozen photos of women holding signs denouncing feminism. Or what they think feminism is, anyway.

Some of these women are fairly articulate about the source of their hostility against feminism: they’re traditionalists who don’t like being judged for their choices:

feminismtruewomen

Others seem to be reacting against stereotypical notions of feminism that bear little relation to the real thing:

feminismequality
feminismcook

Still others have somewhat more, well, idiosyncratic reasons:

feminismbodyhair

For whatever reason, quite a few of the women posting these pictures are from Poland.

At least here in the US, it’s not news that a lot of women reject feminism – or at least the feminist label. There are plenty of  traditionalist women who reject the central tenets of feminism. And there are many others who may share some feminist beliefs but don’t want to call themselves feminists, in part because of the bad rap feminists get in the media and, these days, online. Anyone who’s been a feminist for any length of time has heard women (and some men) announce that “I’m not a feminist, but …” and then follow that statement with a sentiment that is, by any reasonable definition, feminist.

Now some of these “I’m not a feminist, but” types are posting pictures like this, using what is essentially a feminist analysis to criticize what they see as a central shortcoming of feminism:

 

feministagents
Naturally, WF Price has a somewhat different explanation for this alleged trend.

What I think is going on here is that younger women need men more than their older, feminist counterparts did in their heyday.

And why is that? Because times are hard. And so even though men today are struggling, women are struggling even more, and so – in WF Price’s imagination, anyway — they’ve come to appreciate what men can do for them.

The less men have – and the less men there are in general – the more women need them. Without men or without men of means, there can be no surplus, no you-go-grrrrl feminism, no fancy restaurants and no nice houses. Everything just goes to crap.

Heck, Price argues, even men without jobs make better roommates for women than other women, because, you know, they can open jars and stuff:

[W]hat use could a man possibly be if he has no money to speak of? Only someone who has never lived with a woman could find that one hard to answer. A healthy young man with no money can drive, carry things, fix things, protect his mate, solve problems, save money, do chores — the list goes on. And when he gets a job, he will pay his way and do all these things, even if he makes less than his girlfriend. It’s a much, much better deal for a woman than a female roommate.

According to Price, feminism had whatever successes it did have in the past because the economy was booming.

What created this “independent woman” myth was the great prosperity of the baby boomer era, which lasted from roughly the mid 60s to the mid 2000s. Men abounded, and they were flush with cash. Businesses could afford to hire superfluous cute girls and give them nice salaries. Family courts could rob men blind and they’d still have enough left over for a reasonable lifestyle and a chance to start over. Men were harvesting the fat of the land, and there was more than enough to go around.

Huh. I lived through that baby boomer era, and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t one giant materialistic orgy. There were, I vaguely recall, more than a couple of pretty severe recessions. And back in the heyday of second wave feminism in the seventies there was something called “stagflation.”

But let’s not get in the way of WF Price’s little fairy tale. In the baby boomer era, everyone prospered. Now, everyone is poor. Or at least the young people are:

When you’re poor, life is a lot easier if you can share with someone, and nobody shares more with girls than boys. So merely finding a man to share burdens is a considerable relief to young women. Is a feminist going to fix a car, carry a TV upstairs or take her to the hospital to give birth? Will the feminist voluntarily share any of what she earns with the young woman? Yeah, right…

Apparently in Price’s world “the feminist” is essentially a female version of Scrooge McDuck.

Male scarcity in either numbers or resources effectively prevents feminism. Surplus enables it. In a sense, one could say that feminism’s own downfall is built in to the ideology itself, because it contributes to male scarcity.

Wars between the sexes accomplish nothing in the long run, but they do highlight the complementary, interdependent nature of the sexes: when one sex “beats” the other, both lose. Today’s young women seem to understand that a lot better than their foolish mothers ever did.

In the comments, the Spearhead regulars are less forgiving of “foolish” women than Price is. Regular commenter Geographybeefinalisthimself suggests that antifeminist men should be something less than gracious in their (alleged) victory:

Even if women are in fact rejecting feminism (and I treat this with a lot of suspicion), I don’t see why men should not be vindictive since feminists were pretty damn vindictive to men (myself included, though I am well aware that I am not the only one) when male power was a myth.

Since young men got paid back for discrimination that wasn’t their fault, I don’t see why they shouldn’t turn around and do likewise to a subsequent generation of females. If feminism can come to an end now (and I am not convinced that it is dead yet), it also could have come to an end twenty years ago. I always take the attitude that if something can happen now, it could have happened many years ago as well.

Someone calling himself Lastango, meanwhile, indulges himself in some hypothetical Atlas Shrugging:

[T]he tide is going out and it’s increasingly obvious feminism has been swimming naked, keeping its head above water only because it could float on government money. Unfortunately for feminists, this is happening at the very moment men are increasingly aware of having been demonized and exploited during the past 40 years, and Atlas is starting to shrug… he’ll be staying dry, on the beach, instead of swimming out to rescue a drowning political tribe of privileged, entitled women who have been using him for their own gain.

The misogynists of the manosphere are never quite so happy as when they contemplate women being punished.

The women posting pictures to the Women Against Feminism blog might be surprised by how ungentlemanly these fellows really are.

NOTE: I cropped the pics from Women Against Feminism to save space and highlight the signs.

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emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
10 years ago

I love that Daniela felt the need to post basically that same comment on multiple threads. Because David really, really needs to know that he’s fat!

I heard from my grandma that there was a black police officer and he was protecting the kkk members when they were speaking. I don’t know the exact details but…gosh.

Well, if objecting would cost him his job , maybe he had no choice.

@Anonymous Ibiza, please don’t flog your blog here, it’s tacky. Also, lol Illuminati tinhats.

Am I the only one who heard about that mom being arrested and immediately went “…She’s black, isn’t she?”

Nope, you’re not.

strivingally
10 years ago

Zie’s just trying to OPEN OUR EYES to the TRUTH but we’re too BRAINWASHED to see it!

Or whatever crap the conspiracy theorists are saying these days.

Anon-Ibiz: the music industry’s use of women as props and accessories is indeed awful and I doubt you’d find much argument here. But when you’re also saying that CLEARLY this dude is also a Nazi because he told the crowd to put one hand in the air instead of two, and also FREEMASONRY because OMG HAND SIGNAL (please don’t ever go to a metal concert) and ILLUMINATI you sound like someone who’s just picked something they don’t like and ascribing All Bad Things In The World to it – in this case, a particular club in Ibiza.

A club is crappy, tacky and overpriced. That’s pretty awful. But so’s putting together tenuous conspiracy theories that put you well into tinfoil-hat territory.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Looks like Anon Ibiza’s tinfoil hat is on a little too tight today.

ralmcg
10 years ago

I have some theories about traditionalist women. They don’t like feminism because it challenges traditional sex roles. They may expect some reward for letting men rule over them, either in this life or the next. They like traditional sex roles because it exempts them from “masculine” things, like working outside the home for instance.

I don’t want to hurt traditionalist women, especially their feelings. I just like to know why they want to limit themselves, and other women, to limited roles based on their gender.

Nitram
10 years ago

Cloudish and zoon, (can I blockquote from an iPhone?)
“@cloudiah

feminism is this giant wrong tree that everyone keeps barking up.
I approve of this sentence. Slightly too long for a tattoo, but I’m considering it.

I will actually literally really pay $5 to get someone on fiverr to hold up a sign saying this sentence and then post the pictures here. Or any other that the WHTM community can decide”

Glad you like it and thanks! Yeah, that phrase has been popping in my head since I discovered manosphere. I used to comment at avfm. It kinda went like this:
“You’re barking up the wrong tree! Hello!? Feminism cares about those issu….what? No! Feminists don’t stand for tha….huh?! I’m not fat! What’s that got to…What?! No, the whole point was so women wouldn’t be financially dependent on men for survival.
Nonononono, narrow gender roles, men have to be tough, not a feminist tene….wait, we’re emasculating you now? I thought that….Oh I give up.”

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Well damn, I stay up until nearly 2am and still miss the troll excitement!

Freemasons? Illuminati? Hand signals? Tinfoil hats?

Sounds like Son of Owly.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Nitram, did you see in the other thread that a kitty holding a sign with your feminism sentence was a Thing We Had To Have? I made a pic and grumpycatisagirl is using it as her gravatar. Sorry I didn’t tell you before, I couldn’t remember who said it to start with!

Here’s the original:

http://i.imgur.com/074wI0h.jpg

Nitram
10 years ago

Kittehserf,

That is so awesome! Don’t think I’ve ever been quoted for a sign before. Neato!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Yay, I’m so glad you like it! Use it however you like. 🙂

grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago

I hope you don’t mind me using your words in my gravatar, Nitram!

Greebo
Greebo
10 years ago

@EmilyGoddess- Yes there is another Greebo here. I am left the nanny ogg suit and became part of the David hivemind for 110% more feline misandry 😛 (Translation: Another Pratchett fan? Hurrah!)

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

::reads Greebo’s post::

::chokes laughing::

There are quite a few Pratchett fans here!

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
10 years ago

I am left the nanny ogg suit and became part of the David hivemind for 110% more feline misandry 😛

Thank Anoia, I swallowed my coffee before I read this!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

I wonder if Anoia and Ceiling Cat are in league? Rattling drawers and finding stuff under sofas (how did it get there?) are very kitty things.

http://youtu.be/MtwGES59NY4

Julie (ᴍᴄ) Galliard (@mcjulie)

On the topic of patriarchalist women — something that occurred to me the other day was that a lot of the more extreme patriarchal limitations on women — footbinding, burqas, etc — were originally associated with the upper classes, even if they’re more widely practiced (or not practiced at all) now. Working outside the home is certainly something that only women with relative economic privilege were ever able to consider optional.

So… I wonder if the real underlying motivator of anti-feminist women is a kind of loose emotional association between patriarchal traditions and wealth.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
10 years ago

Julie, that’s an interesting idea. Maybe some of the women who dream of being a SAHM do so because it represents a level of economic security they don’t currently have?

Julie (ᴍᴄ) Galliard (@mcjulie)

Emilygoddess — exactly.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

That’s a really interesting idea, Julie, I think you’ve hit on it. There could be a whole heap of “not having to work” (as in hold down a paid job in an uncertain economy, not as in not actually doing anything) there. I know I’d love to be wealthy enough to not need a job, though stuffed if depending on dude represents any sort of financial security (yes male parental unit, I’m looking at you).

Ally S
10 years ago

Patriarchy is entirely rooted in violence and women as constructed by patriarchy are fundamentally unable to find a place in a social order in which they have power and respect as human beings. (Think about how women face that “damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t” judgment by society.) Nevertheless, patriarchy is often maintained through discourses that emphasize the ostensibly good aspects of patriarchy. The aim is to make patriarchy appealing to women such that women become completely obedient to men. Control equals protection, manipulation equals guidance, objectification equals appreciation, and abuse equals discipline. And unfortunately many women find these ideas convincing, hence the existence of anti-feminist women who perceive feminists as trying to destroy the ostensibly most peaceful life a woman could have.

Ally S
10 years ago

That’s just the patriarchal aspect of all of this, though. I think there are definitely intersections of class and race as well. I can’t think of a single anti-feminist woman who idolizes the life of a poor mother of color (married or not) instead of that of a rich white married mother.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

I can’t think of a single anti-feminist woman who idolizes the life of a poor mother of color (married or not) instead of that of a rich white married mother.

Too right.

Falconer
Falconer
10 years ago

Maybe some women expect that they’ll be expected to do all the housework and just nope out of having to work outside the house and inside the house, too.

Ally S
10 years ago

It’s a comfort to privileged women. While all women – regardless of whether they are white, cis, straight, thin, neurotypical or able-bodied – are structurally determined by patriarchy to engage in reproductive labor, nowhere is this reality more manifest and ugly than in the lives of women at the very bottom of society. Women of color doing childcare, domestic work, and so on are treated like garbage, especially if they are poor. Their sole purpose as mandated by white supremacist patriarchal capitalism (a term bell hooks use that I like a lot, even though I don’t like bell hooks) is to engage in the most degrading and miserable forms of reproductive labor. And society as it stands today needs this structure because it allows the people at top to fully enjoy their privileges.

Nitram
10 years ago

Grumpycatisagirl,

I’m tickled! Practically want to put it on my resume.