Are women turning against feminism? Over on The Spearhead, WF Price sets forth the proposition that “the younger generation of women [is] rejecting ‘feminism’ in stronger terms than I’ve ever witnessed in my life.”
His proof for this? A Tumblr blog called Women Against Feminism, featuring a couple dozen photos of women holding signs denouncing feminism. Or what they think feminism is, anyway.
Some of these women are fairly articulate about the source of their hostility against feminism: they’re traditionalists who don’t like being judged for their choices:
Others seem to be reacting against stereotypical notions of feminism that bear little relation to the real thing:
Still others have somewhat more, well, idiosyncratic reasons:
For whatever reason, quite a few of the women posting these pictures are from Poland.
At least here in the US, it’s not news that a lot of women reject feminism – or at least the feminist label. There are plenty of traditionalist women who reject the central tenets of feminism. And there are many others who may share some feminist beliefs but don’t want to call themselves feminists, in part because of the bad rap feminists get in the media and, these days, online. Anyone who’s been a feminist for any length of time has heard women (and some men) announce that “I’m not a feminist, but …” and then follow that statement with a sentiment that is, by any reasonable definition, feminist.
Now some of these “I’m not a feminist, but” types are posting pictures like this, using what is essentially a feminist analysis to criticize what they see as a central shortcoming of feminism:
Naturally, WF Price has a somewhat different explanation for this alleged trend.
What I think is going on here is that younger women need men more than their older, feminist counterparts did in their heyday.
And why is that? Because times are hard. And so even though men today are struggling, women are struggling even more, and so – in WF Price’s imagination, anyway — they’ve come to appreciate what men can do for them.
The less men have – and the less men there are in general – the more women need them. Without men or without men of means, there can be no surplus, no you-go-grrrrl feminism, no fancy restaurants and no nice houses. Everything just goes to crap.
Heck, Price argues, even men without jobs make better roommates for women than other women, because, you know, they can open jars and stuff:
[W]hat use could a man possibly be if he has no money to speak of? Only someone who has never lived with a woman could find that one hard to answer. A healthy young man with no money can drive, carry things, fix things, protect his mate, solve problems, save money, do chores — the list goes on. And when he gets a job, he will pay his way and do all these things, even if he makes less than his girlfriend. It’s a much, much better deal for a woman than a female roommate.
According to Price, feminism had whatever successes it did have in the past because the economy was booming.
What created this “independent woman” myth was the great prosperity of the baby boomer era, which lasted from roughly the mid 60s to the mid 2000s. Men abounded, and they were flush with cash. Businesses could afford to hire superfluous cute girls and give them nice salaries. Family courts could rob men blind and they’d still have enough left over for a reasonable lifestyle and a chance to start over. Men were harvesting the fat of the land, and there was more than enough to go around.
Huh. I lived through that baby boomer era, and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t one giant materialistic orgy. There were, I vaguely recall, more than a couple of pretty severe recessions. And back in the heyday of second wave feminism in the seventies there was something called “stagflation.”
But let’s not get in the way of WF Price’s little fairy tale. In the baby boomer era, everyone prospered. Now, everyone is poor. Or at least the young people are:
When you’re poor, life is a lot easier if you can share with someone, and nobody shares more with girls than boys. So merely finding a man to share burdens is a considerable relief to young women. Is a feminist going to fix a car, carry a TV upstairs or take her to the hospital to give birth? Will the feminist voluntarily share any of what she earns with the young woman? Yeah, right…
Apparently in Price’s world “the feminist” is essentially a female version of Scrooge McDuck.
Male scarcity in either numbers or resources effectively prevents feminism. Surplus enables it. In a sense, one could say that feminism’s own downfall is built in to the ideology itself, because it contributes to male scarcity.
Wars between the sexes accomplish nothing in the long run, but they do highlight the complementary, interdependent nature of the sexes: when one sex “beats” the other, both lose. Today’s young women seem to understand that a lot better than their foolish mothers ever did.
In the comments, the Spearhead regulars are less forgiving of “foolish” women than Price is. Regular commenter Geographybeefinalisthimself suggests that antifeminist men should be something less than gracious in their (alleged) victory:
Even if women are in fact rejecting feminism (and I treat this with a lot of suspicion), I don’t see why men should not be vindictive since feminists were pretty damn vindictive to men (myself included, though I am well aware that I am not the only one) when male power was a myth.
Since young men got paid back for discrimination that wasn’t their fault, I don’t see why they shouldn’t turn around and do likewise to a subsequent generation of females. If feminism can come to an end now (and I am not convinced that it is dead yet), it also could have come to an end twenty years ago. I always take the attitude that if something can happen now, it could have happened many years ago as well.
Someone calling himself Lastango, meanwhile, indulges himself in some hypothetical Atlas Shrugging:
[T]he tide is going out and it’s increasingly obvious feminism has been swimming naked, keeping its head above water only because it could float on government money. Unfortunately for feminists, this is happening at the very moment men are increasingly aware of having been demonized and exploited during the past 40 years, and Atlas is starting to shrug… he’ll be staying dry, on the beach, instead of swimming out to rescue a drowning political tribe of privileged, entitled women who have been using him for their own gain.
The misogynists of the manosphere are never quite so happy as when they contemplate women being punished.
The women posting pictures to the Women Against Feminism blog might be surprised by how ungentlemanly these fellows really are.
NOTE: I cropped the pics from Women Against Feminism to save space and highlight the signs.
Either I don’t know what feminism is, or none of these ladies in the pictures do.
I was already out of college before I was no longer afraid of the F word. I was one of those girls saying, “I’m not a feminist, but…..(insert something feminist).” This was due wholeheartedly to the fact that I received absolutely NO education about the issues and heard exclusively derogatory remarks about Feminists.
I feel sad to think that you have to be looking for it on your own to get an education about women’s issues, but anyone can spread ignorance….
>What do you think…
I think I’d like to know the google search string that brought you here.
Actually, I’m sure that they WANT people to see that and feel insecure. If previous posts by David here are any indication, these guys get their rocks off on seeing young women left reeling by the sheer awfulness of it all. They feed on other people’s insecurities; they think they can climb up by tearing others down. Recognizing that this power trip is a cover for their own inadequacies is the first step to dismantling that house-o-cards. The fact that their “success” depends on others’ destruction is very telling, and bodes ill…for THEM.
Take heart and don’t let the abyss stare back into you. I’m 46 and still not married, either, and I’m pretty sure that if I counted up the number of languages I’ve learned against the number of guys I’ve dated or slept with, the first number would be larger. And you know something? I’m totally fine with that. I’m actually glad of that! I have times when I wonder if there even IS someone out there for me, but then I remind myself that even if there isn’t, at least I’m not in bed with an MRA…and knowing this many languages is a lot of fun, not to mention infinitely useful. I’m determined to make sure the good in me outweighs the bad in those guys, and to enjoy my life no matter what. And to do what is meaningful to me, and maybe even make it helpful to someone else, too. In the end, that’s all any of us really CAN do.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is, keep on doing your thing and being yourself. It will pay off in its own good time, and will lead you to people who appreciate you for it. Faking a “true feminine” persona will only land you in a world of hurt. And it will only prop up the very social structure that’s making life hard for you already. Being yourself is a great way to starve a whole passel of trolls!
RE: Clothesminded
What’s next gays against gay marriage ?
They exist. Quite a lot of them, actually. Check out the g0ys sometimes, if you need a laugh.
RE: tesformes
I think it was LBT who posted a link to a conversation about g0ys, who acknowledge being attracted to men, but are hyper-masculine about it and believe anal sex permanently defiles your manliness.
That was me, yes! I see it as my sworn duty to make sure people know about the g0ys and how ridiculous they are, so they can mock the living hell out of them.
RE: RandomPoster
human females are indeed really fundamentally opportunistically mercenary.
Not like men, oh no. They are true altruists, every one of them. Also, you know jack shit about sex work, big surprise.
RE: Buttercup Q. Skullpants
I read an interesting theory once, that one of the dynamics with bullies is envy.
I have often wondered to myself whether that little hellion who tormented my predecessors in middle school was trans. The sadistic part of me feels that being a trans woman would be a totally just return for that bullshit. (Also, seriously, how many eleven years olds know that many transmisogynistic slurs if they weren’t considering it already?) God willing, she is now a leggy trans woman who is deeply ashamed of the asshole she used to be, rather than an older, more miserable version of the kid I knew.
from that women against feminism site:
This just makes me sad… And fear for the city being crushed in the rampage of this giant man of straw.
I think I woulda been happier not knowing that site exists. I want to reply to EVERY one of those pictures. I have a headache now.
Oh yeah, does anybody else see the supreme irony of text claiming things are now equal, or that feminism tries to limit women mixed in with text talking about how “real women” stay at home, and men and women have different roles?
Haven’t touched the comments here yet, and dinner is ready, but…
“I always take the attitude that if something can happen now, it could have happened many years ago as well.”
Taken to the absurdity, by this “logic” humans should’ve colonized space, or whatever it is we’ll be doing in the future, the moment we grew opposable thumbs? I’m sure he means that on a grand scale science and politics and the like could be sped up, which might be sorta true, but in practice? I’m getting more brine shrimp tomorrow, could’ve probably happened today, but last week I didn’t know I’d need more to establish a breeding stock to feed fish I hadn’t yet decided I was going to get.
Silly idea is silly. Now, dinner, then comments! (Might be awhile since I’m going to continue my attempts to get them to eat something besides live brine shrimp!)
@Buttercup Q. Skullpants – I’ve had those same “the lady doth protest too much, methinks” moments. If your life is so great, shouldn’t you be, y’know, living it? And why would you care so much about what strangers think?
Re: “1900 House” – The laundry situation on there was amazing. By the time you washed, dried, starched, ironed and folded everything you needed to do it all again. I had a newborn when I watched it, and I was just imagining how many years of my Victorian life that I would lose to laundering diapers. Ruth Goodman had it right when she said that washing machines were a tool of women’s liberation.
I had a binge of those living history reality shows while I was nursing my first child, so I think I’ve seen most of what the BBC and PBS have to offer. “Manor House” is a good one in the same vein as “1900 House.” That one featured a large group of people living as the servants in a country estate. The series spent as much time – probably more – covering their lives as they did following the family who were living as Edwardian aristocrats. It really gets into how it was degrading, dirty, financially insecure, and physically exhausting the life of a servant could be. Twenty-first century people did not adapt well to those roles (can’t throw stones, I wouldn’t either). I also highly recommend any of the BBC “Farm” series (Victorian Farm, Edwardian Farm, Wartime Farm) with Ruth Goodman, Alex Langlands, and Peter Ginn. They really get into the nitty gritty of what it took to keep body and soul together back in the day.
I have never had any desire to live in the past. I probably would’ve been burned at the stake AGES ago.
“Ex-gays” are another group of gays against gay marriage.
Yup. I found myself thinking: Okay, dearies, which is it? Are things naturally “equal already”*, or naturally “traditional”? Because they can’t be both…
* note the quotes; there for a reason.
I kinda prefer the ‘Farm’ shows, cos Ruth, Alex and Peter do know what they are getting into. The 1900s House was good, but a lot of the time with members of the general public taking part in ‘living history’ they had no idea what they were getting into, and tended to throw a fit and walk out. (Again, no throwing stones cos I live in a Glass House) That is fun for reality tv, but less good for genuine interest in how people lived/things were done then.
I liked the “Farm” series better, too. I came to them last, after I’d already blasted through most of the U.S. and British living history ones. It was nice to see people who knew what they were doing and had some kind of realistic expectations about how events would unfold. And Ruth is just the best to watch – she’s so knowledgeable and enthusiastic.
I will never understand why this is so hard to understand. Feminism is ultimately an idea that women can make the choice to be whatever they want (and men too) free from any cultural judgement and programming, narrow gender roles, etc. So be a lawyer or be a housewife! No problem! Cook for your man? Fine by me! Shave your bits? Grow them out? Whatevs!!! Like my mom always said “if a woman rejects feminism, she better be glad another woman didn’t” or she wouldn’t be able to speak on these issues, vote on them, publicly proclaim them, make the choice, etc.
feminism is this giant wrong tree that everyone keeps barking up.
These pictures remind me of those pictures we saw on Facebook right after the Occupy movement hit the news. They were people claiming to be non-rich who’d done just fine and were critical of those who criticized the 1%. Some of them told really improbably stores of how poor they were and how well they did through hard work and being careful with money. Some of them were downright unbelievable – maybe one person could do it, but not everybody like the person holding the sign was implying. Anyone else see these?
Scarlettpipstrelle: Oh yes, the 53%. And now I’m assuming that most of them are Polish girls paid by the Romney campaign.
Re: the ideas about feminism being opposed to women being SAHMs, celebrating their femininity, or whatever traditionally “female” thing is supposedly anti-feminist:
As a friend once said to me when I was talking about my wife taking my surname when we got married, “The *conversation* is the feminist part.”
Or to put it another way, talking to your SO/coparent as equals and deciding one of you will stay home and look after the kids while the other works isn’t anti-feminist – not having the conversation because it’s assumed Women Should Be The Homemakers is.
The whole fiverr thing is just sad as I can easily see Pauly spending the cash he conned out of his followers on having women hold up signs with ignorant crap on them instead of actually helping someone.
I also wouldn’t be surprised to learn that one of the women was paid to hold up a “feminist” slogan in order to fuel Reddit ragewank
I approve of this sentence. Slightly too long for a tattoo, but I’m considering it.
There is zero credibility for any of these people holding those kind of signs. I had a look at that fiverr site and the first seven offers were-
“I will give you 66 pictures of me copyright free use them on websites…”
“I will dress in bikini swimsuit and hold your sign”
“I will take amazing art HQ photos of me holding your sign”
“I will model your merchandise or hold your sign”
“I will hold your Sign or Message”
“I will take 5 pictures of me holding a sign”
“I will hold your sign in front of the eiffel”
Sounds like people desperately trying to raise enough to pay their rent.
And whoever said I was shaming them eh? And if you’ll notice, it’s female posters who are claiming to be depressed about this state of affairs. I myself am relieved that my cynicism is vindicated : D
Huh. Fiverr has a whole category devoted to people (mostly attractive young women) who will hold up signs for $5.
http://www.fiverr.com/categories/advertising/holding-a-sign/
If anyone wants to do some detective work, it would be great to know if any of the specific women on Women Against Feminism are offering this service on fiverr. I’ve gone through a few pages, but I haven’t noticed any yet.
Speaking from their world of young, pretty, middle class, White girl privilege. There are women all over the world who don’t get a choice about staying home and being traditional of going out in the world to work. (In fact, for much of the history of the world, women worked outside the home in Africa, Asia, India.)
There are plenty of women right here in this country who have little choice in the matter.
They’re vilified by politicians and the media no matter what they do: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/
This just so totally pisses me off. Its exceptionally easy for them to sit up on their overprivileged asses and hold these signs. Easiest thing in the world.
RandomPoster, I repeat: and men AREN’T mercenary? Sure, buddy.
Also, I’m glad you’re enjoying wallowing in your cynicism. Try not to wank while listening to Simple Plan now.
Some of those signs have been photoshopped and repurposed from Project Unbreakable. That is effing inexcusable.