And yes, Every Breath You Take is in there, as an example of a stalker song. The author wonders why this song is so popular at weddings, and so do I. Do people not listen to lyrics?
Examples from the book:
Obsession – Animotion
Run for Your Life – The Beatles
Stan – Eminem
WatermelonSugar
10 years ago
The Friend-Zone Anthem:
“Creep,” Radiohead
WatermelonSugar
10 years ago
Also a Friend-Zone/Break-Up Boohoo song:
“It’s Cool, We Can Still Be Friends,” Bright Eyes.
On a personal note, I am super bummed that Conor Oberst has become the “false accusation” super hero of the MRA clan. All bullshit aside, his music played a large part in me not killing myself in high school. Oh how the mighty fall.
In news of Leum, I continue to toy around with gender and gender identity. I’m fairly sure at this point that I’m agender, not male, but I don’t really know how I feel about pronouns yet. Thankfully my real name is gender-neutral, so that’s not an issue. No real problem with using the men’s room, thankfully. Still trying to work out the difference between a massive amount of cis and male privilege meaning I don’t need to notice my gender and not actually having one, so there’s that. So far everyone I’ve told has been supportive, but it’s mostly been internet friends.
If you don’t identify as male or masculine, then you don’t have male privilege, and you certainly don’t have any cis privilege, either. Not even if you are perceived as cis and/or male. In fact, since you’re an AMAB (assigned male at birth) trans person, you face transmisogyny – the same form of oppression I face for being a trans woman. You might not experience it just like transfeminine people like me, but it’s still there.
By the way, contrary to popular belief, you can be agender and use whatever pronouns you want for yourself. (In case that’s why you’re confused about pronouns, since I know it’s easy to get confused about that.)
(I’m writing this in a hurry so I’m sorry if any of my explanations sound weird to you.)
On a personal note, I am super bummed that Conor Oberst has become the “false accusation” super hero of the MRA clan.
Especially since he’s been classy about the whole thing. He asked people not to harass and threaten her and has stressed that his case shouldn’t be used as an excuse to denigrate actual victims.
@WatermelonSugar, My blog was basically set up as a counterpoint to Artistry Against Misandry, which you can find mocked in these very pages!
Myoo
10 years ago
@strivingally
Avril Lavigne – Sk8ter Boy
Nequam
10 years ago
Manosphere songs:
“Under My Thumb” – Rolling Stones
“Love Me Dead” – Ludo
“I Will Possess Your Heart” – Death Cab for Cutie
“Somebody That I Used to Know” – Gotye
“Awkward” – San Cisco
Nequam
10 years ago
Aside: Death Cab for Cutie kind of pisses me off. They take their name from a funny song by The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band and then do all this mopey, maudlin shit.
Flying Mouse
10 years ago
Holy cats, WatermelonSugar, you’re in the Nashville area? I have family up there, I’m usually up at least twice a year. I’m going to have to hit you up for recommendations for stuff to do next time I’m planning a visit. I love my cousins and aunts, but their idea of a fun time is church and shopping, neither of which do much for me.
WatermelonSugar
10 years ago
@WWTH–
Yeaaaah. I have been avoiding reading any MRA writing about it, but I feel safe in assuming they don’t respect Oberst’s wishes. Just guessing.
@Cloudiah–
Sheesh. I am just freaked out that those jerks are founded in my city. Nashville as a whole is pretty liberal for a red state, and the fact that these people share my city makes me feel a little bit like vomiting.
WatermelonSugar
10 years ago
@Flying Mouse–
Yeah! Let me know what you are in to. The Frist is pretty awesome if you like art. The Belcourt is a great indie movie house if that is your thing. Edwin-Warner park is a beaaaautiful park if you like nature. The Downtown Library looks like Gringotts from Harry Potter and often hosts cool authors. Hillsboro Village is fun and arty and full of great coffee places and bookstores, if a little over-run with super cool kids.
I do mostly boring stuff, obviously.
Robert
10 years ago
Strivingally, my suggestion is “Walk Like a Man” by the Four Seasons.
Watermelonsugar, that all sounds quite fun to me. There can be advantages to having a low stimulus threshold.
Flying Mouse
10 years ago
Boring? Pshaw! That all sounds pretty great to me. Thanks!
It’s kind of embarrassing. I was born in Nashville, and I’ve been visited a lot since we left in the mid-80’s, but there’s so much of the city that I’ve never seen. I’d never even been to the Parthenon until a couple of years ago. Most of my visits are taken up by classic Southern U.S. family rituals – watching football, annoying my politically minded relatives with my token liberal opinions, and eating enough food to provision Darwin’s expedition to the Galapagos.
pallygirl
10 years ago
@auggz: that sounds exciting and interesting. Is there an institute that does training, or is it all on-the-job?
Hi! I guess open threads are the best places to delurk and say hi to everyone.
My name’s Hanne, I’m a long time reader, second-time commenter. I’m currently at uni in Wales studying Psychology, and then I’m going on to do mental health nursing. I have 3 furrinati overlords- 1 in my house in Cardiff (Ginge, a massive ginger tom who adopted me after his old owner moved away without him) and 2 in my parents house (Attila or Tilly, our long-hair tortie and Bell, our short hair tabby rescue).
Recently, I rescued a little grey stray I called Grimalkin, or Grimmy for short. We took her to the vets, and fortunately she’s been microchipped, so should be reunited with her humans soon- which is great, because it turns out she’s also pregnant, and she doesn’t get along well with Ginge as it is.
Dire Sloth
10 years ago
Hello, everyone. I’ve lurked on this blog for ages but comment only very rarely. I’ve got… A lot of personal stuff I’m trying to work through, but I can’t really articulate any of it at the moment. Figured I’d just try and join the conversation here anyways.
@LBT, that’s good to hear. I always thought your pocket zines were very sensitive and compassionate, I’m glad they’re reaching a bigger audience.
@WatermelonSugar, I’m sure it would be a good idea to write anyways, even if you aren’t a student. You don’t have to suggest any personal investment, just let them know about the kind of people they will be hosting. What you’ve already written in your posts could be retooled into the body of the letter, even.
@aggziliary, being a tattoo artist sounds like an amazing job. I hope you’re able to find a good apprenticeship, I imagine they’re kind of in demand due to all those shows about tattoo artists that have been out lately.
Leum
10 years ago
If you don’t identify as male or masculine, then you don’t have male privilege, and you certainly don’t have any cis privilege, either. Not even if you are perceived as cis and/or male. In fact, since you’re an AMAB (assigned male at birth) trans person, you face transmisogyny – the same form of oppression I face for being a trans woman. You might not experience it just like transfeminine people like me, but it’s still there.
By the way, contrary to popular belief, you can be agender and use whatever pronouns you want for yourself. (In case that’s why you’re confused about pronouns, since I know it’s easy to get confused about that.)
(I’m writing this in a hurry so I’m sorry if any of my explanations sound weird to you.)
Thanks Ally. I am a bit confused by some of what you said, so maybe you can explain when you’re in a bit less of a hurry? I’d appreciate it. Specificaly, I’m not clear on how I can experience transmisogyny without being female, nor on how transphobia more generally manifests itself for cis-presenting nonbinary people. You’ve been majorly helpful to me lately; I reall appreciate it.
Also, now I really want to visit Nashville. All of that sounds totally fun.
Good news in that my BIL finally found an anti-depressant that works for him and he (and my sister) is doing much, much better. Interestingly, the meds seem to be helping his ADD as well.
My niece (BIL’s non-bio daughter) just had surgery to remove her large intestine (polyps), and I finally got to experience her toxic* mother first-hand. First time I’ve ever been around someone who has absolutely no empathy, at all, and poor niece had to endure her living in hospital with her for over a week. Bright side, she’s out of hospital, away from her mother, and doing great… and hopefully moving in with BIL and my sis in Sept (we’ll see, we expect toxic mother to pull one of her usual stunts at the last minute)
*She really, really is toxic. I’ve never encountered anyone like her, ever. The type of person you explain, and people don’t believe you because “no-one would do THAT”.
I’m not clear on how I can experience transmisogyny without being female, nor on how transphobia more generally manifests itself for cis-presenting nonbinary people. You’ve been majorly helpful to me lately; I reall appreciate it.
Bear in mind that my views aren’t exactly popular with a lot of trans people. I’m speaking from a post-structuralist, radical feminist perspective, which is generally at odds with dominant discourses of trans politics.
Transmisogyny is, in fact, aimed at trans women. But it oppresses trans women on the basis of them being AMAB and non-male (or, as I prefer to say, CAMAB, which stands for ‘coercively assigned male at birth’). Therefore, even non-binary CAMAB trans people are oppressed by transmisogyny. Whether people perceive you to be cis doesn’t change the fact that you are structurally disadvantaged in relation to cis people. How you are perceived only determines (to a limited extent) how you are treated by others – it doesn’t determine privilege. For example, I’m a lesbian, and though most people assume I’m straight, I am still marginalized by lesbophobia in that I suffer from deeply internalized lesbophobia (like I find myself thinking that my past identification as bi makes me mistakenly believe that I’m a fake lesbian). Same reasoning applies to CAMAB trans people and transmisogyny.
This isn’t an easy topic for a lot of people – I’m a trans woman and even I find this stuff confusing often – so if anything I’ve said has flown over your head, I understand.
The next three weekends in a row I will be that bear. Between going to Georgian Bay, to a camping family reunion, to Niagara Falls for my one-year wedding anniversary, it shall be bliss.
We Hunted The Mammoth
“White Blank Page” by Mumford and Sons has always struck me as a Nice Guy anthem.
For Nice Guys I would throw Sugarcube by Yo La Tengo into the mix
Re music: I have this book so can offer multiple suggestions: http://www.amazon.com/Touch-Me-Im-Sick-Creepiest/dp/1556527535
And yes, Every Breath You Take is in there, as an example of a stalker song. The author wonders why this song is so popular at weddings, and so do I. Do people not listen to lyrics?
Examples from the book:
Obsession – Animotion
Run for Your Life – The Beatles
Stan – Eminem
The Friend-Zone Anthem:
“Creep,” Radiohead
Also a Friend-Zone/Break-Up Boohoo song:
“It’s Cool, We Can Still Be Friends,” Bright Eyes.
On a personal note, I am super bummed that Conor Oberst has become the “false accusation” super hero of the MRA clan. All bullshit aside, his music played a large part in me not killing myself in high school. Oh how the mighty fall.
That one’s in the book too, @WatermelonSugar.
@Leum
If you don’t identify as male or masculine, then you don’t have male privilege, and you certainly don’t have any cis privilege, either. Not even if you are perceived as cis and/or male. In fact, since you’re an AMAB (assigned male at birth) trans person, you face transmisogyny – the same form of oppression I face for being a trans woman. You might not experience it just like transfeminine people like me, but it’s still there.
By the way, contrary to popular belief, you can be agender and use whatever pronouns you want for yourself. (In case that’s why you’re confused about pronouns, since I know it’s easy to get confused about that.)
(I’m writing this in a hurry so I’m sorry if any of my explanations sound weird to you.)
Especially since he’s been classy about the whole thing. He asked people not to harass and threaten her and has stressed that his case shouldn’t be used as an excuse to denigrate actual victims.
@WatermelonSugar, My blog was basically set up as a counterpoint to Artistry Against Misandry, which you can find mocked in these very pages!
@strivingally
Avril Lavigne – Sk8ter Boy
Manosphere songs:
“Under My Thumb” – Rolling Stones
“Love Me Dead” – Ludo
“I Will Possess Your Heart” – Death Cab for Cutie
“Somebody That I Used to Know” – Gotye
“Awkward” – San Cisco
Aside: Death Cab for Cutie kind of pisses me off. They take their name from a funny song by The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band and then do all this mopey, maudlin shit.
Holy cats, WatermelonSugar, you’re in the Nashville area? I have family up there, I’m usually up at least twice a year. I’m going to have to hit you up for recommendations for stuff to do next time I’m planning a visit. I love my cousins and aunts, but their idea of a fun time is church and shopping, neither of which do much for me.
@WWTH–
Yeaaaah. I have been avoiding reading any MRA writing about it, but I feel safe in assuming they don’t respect Oberst’s wishes. Just guessing.
@Cloudiah–
Sheesh. I am just freaked out that those jerks are founded in my city. Nashville as a whole is pretty liberal for a red state, and the fact that these people share my city makes me feel a little bit like vomiting.
@Flying Mouse–
Yeah! Let me know what you are in to. The Frist is pretty awesome if you like art. The Belcourt is a great indie movie house if that is your thing. Edwin-Warner park is a beaaaautiful park if you like nature. The Downtown Library looks like Gringotts from Harry Potter and often hosts cool authors. Hillsboro Village is fun and arty and full of great coffee places and bookstores, if a little over-run with super cool kids.
I do mostly boring stuff, obviously.
Strivingally, my suggestion is “Walk Like a Man” by the Four Seasons.
Watermelonsugar, that all sounds quite fun to me. There can be advantages to having a low stimulus threshold.
Boring? Pshaw! That all sounds pretty great to me. Thanks!
It’s kind of embarrassing. I was born in Nashville, and I’ve been visited a lot since we left in the mid-80’s, but there’s so much of the city that I’ve never seen. I’d never even been to the Parthenon until a couple of years ago. Most of my visits are taken up by classic Southern U.S. family rituals – watching football, annoying my politically minded relatives with my token liberal opinions, and eating enough food to provision Darwin’s expedition to the Galapagos.
@auggz: that sounds exciting and interesting. Is there an institute that does training, or is it all on-the-job?
Hi! I guess open threads are the best places to delurk and say hi to everyone.
My name’s Hanne, I’m a long time reader, second-time commenter. I’m currently at uni in Wales studying Psychology, and then I’m going on to do mental health nursing. I have 3 furrinati overlords- 1 in my house in Cardiff (Ginge, a massive ginger tom who adopted me after his old owner moved away without him) and 2 in my parents house (Attila or Tilly, our long-hair tortie and Bell, our short hair tabby rescue).
Recently, I rescued a little grey stray I called Grimalkin, or Grimmy for short. We took her to the vets, and fortunately she’s been microchipped, so should be reunited with her humans soon- which is great, because it turns out she’s also pregnant, and she doesn’t get along well with Ginge as it is.
Hello, everyone. I’ve lurked on this blog for ages but comment only very rarely. I’ve got… A lot of personal stuff I’m trying to work through, but I can’t really articulate any of it at the moment. Figured I’d just try and join the conversation here anyways.
@LBT, that’s good to hear. I always thought your pocket zines were very sensitive and compassionate, I’m glad they’re reaching a bigger audience.
@WatermelonSugar, I’m sure it would be a good idea to write anyways, even if you aren’t a student. You don’t have to suggest any personal investment, just let them know about the kind of people they will be hosting. What you’ve already written in your posts could be retooled into the body of the letter, even.
@aggziliary, being a tattoo artist sounds like an amazing job. I hope you’re able to find a good apprenticeship, I imagine they’re kind of in demand due to all those shows about tattoo artists that have been out lately.
Thanks Ally. I am a bit confused by some of what you said, so maybe you can explain when you’re in a bit less of a hurry? I’d appreciate it. Specificaly, I’m not clear on how I can experience transmisogyny without being female, nor on how transphobia more generally manifests itself for cis-presenting nonbinary people. You’ve been majorly helpful to me lately; I reall appreciate it.
Welcome Hanne and Dire Sloth!
@LBT congrats! That’s huge!
Also, now I really want to visit Nashville. All of that sounds totally fun.
Good news in that my BIL finally found an anti-depressant that works for him and he (and my sister) is doing much, much better. Interestingly, the meds seem to be helping his ADD as well.
My niece (BIL’s non-bio daughter) just had surgery to remove her large intestine (polyps), and I finally got to experience her toxic* mother first-hand. First time I’ve ever been around someone who has absolutely no empathy, at all, and poor niece had to endure her living in hospital with her for over a week. Bright side, she’s out of hospital, away from her mother, and doing great… and hopefully moving in with BIL and my sis in Sept (we’ll see, we expect toxic mother to pull one of her usual stunts at the last minute)
*She really, really is toxic. I’ve never encountered anyone like her, ever. The type of person you explain, and people don’t believe you because “no-one would do THAT”.
Bear in mind that my views aren’t exactly popular with a lot of trans people. I’m speaking from a post-structuralist, radical feminist perspective, which is generally at odds with dominant discourses of trans politics.
Transmisogyny is, in fact, aimed at trans women. But it oppresses trans women on the basis of them being AMAB and non-male (or, as I prefer to say, CAMAB, which stands for ‘coercively assigned male at birth’). Therefore, even non-binary CAMAB trans people are oppressed by transmisogyny. Whether people perceive you to be cis doesn’t change the fact that you are structurally disadvantaged in relation to cis people. How you are perceived only determines (to a limited extent) how you are treated by others – it doesn’t determine privilege. For example, I’m a lesbian, and though most people assume I’m straight, I am still marginalized by lesbophobia in that I suffer from deeply internalized lesbophobia (like I find myself thinking that my past identification as bi makes me mistakenly believe that I’m a fake lesbian). Same reasoning applies to CAMAB trans people and transmisogyny.
This isn’t an easy topic for a lot of people – I’m a trans woman and even I find this stuff confusing often – so if anything I’ve said has flown over your head, I understand.
The next three weekends in a row I will be that bear. Between going to Georgian Bay, to a camping family reunion, to Niagara Falls for my one-year wedding anniversary, it shall be bliss.