Huh. So Thor — you know, that dude in the comic books based extremely loosely on Norse mythology — is going to be replaced by a woman. No, for reals. Marvel comics announced it on The View. No, that’s for real too.
I wonder what the alpha dogs over in the Red Pill subreddit might think of this?
Huh. I figured they probably would hate it, but not “yet another step down the slippery rabbit hole of feminization that leads inevitably to mandatory lesbianism and the outlawing of PIV sex” hate it.
Let’s see if we can find some more nuanced takes on it. Hey, here’s a comment that starts off, well, calm at least:
Wait, “women and females?”
How about this one? This dude starts off by not blaming feminism.
Ah, I should have seen that coming. Everything that’s not the fault of feminism is always the fault of omega dudes trying to get laid.
Woah, I can’t believe my eyes! A commenter is actually suggesting that some of the other Red Pillers might be giving off the impression that they hate women. Oh, he got downvoted.
![PenguinWorld -8 points 10 hours ago (?|?) We don't hate women, it just really seems like we do permalink save give gold [–]HalfwySandwch 8 points 10 hours ago (?|?) How is this woman hating? It would be just as ridiculous if Wonder Woman was a dude. permalink save parent give gold [–]lexsird 1 point 8 hours ago (?|?) How would that play out? Wonder Man? Wonder Dude? Wonder Man, prince from the Amazonian kingdom...wait...can't have that. Wonder Man from ...what? Prince from the male dominate kingdom of ...about any kingdom ever. Shit, that would piss of the feminazis, so beta-bois aren't going to do that. permalink save parent give gold [–]HalfwySandwch 1 point 8 hours ago (?|?) Still called Wonder Woman... either a Trans chick to dude, who keeps the moniker. Or a non-transitioning trans dude to chick, who calls hemself Wonder Woman.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/hatewom.png?ssl=1)
That got ugly in a hurry. I did not see the transphobia coming.
This guy, meanwhile, thinks the only haters here are the man-haters who think it’s ok to make the God of Thunder a girl.
Seriously. I mean, it’s one thing to make Thor a young doctor named Donald Blake. That’s fine. Or have him put on tights and a cape and join up with an assortment of superheroes to fight the forces of evil in this and I don’t know how many other comic book universes as well as in a couple of films. But make him a female? Clearly that strains credulity.
The Red Pillers demand utter realism in their comic books involving Norse gods in tights.
Note: Thanks to Reddit’s own ShitRaditzSays for pointing out this lovely Red Pill discussion.
It’s just so childish though. They’re like kids throwing a tantrum in the supermarket because mom won’t let them have a Mars Bar, even though some other kid somewhere is allowed to have one.
So much awesome discussion about Norse mythology and comic books, two of my favorite geeky subjects, and I’m stuck on Invalidity talking about “women and females” and “female genders” (as in plural – am I missing something here?).
Their reasoning for why feminism isn’t responsible for this: apparently only men work at Marvel.
*I put on my robe and nerdy hat*
The horse-cow-thing that once had The Power of Thor is a guy named Beta Ray Bill, and he’s a separate entity from Thor. He was granted Mjolnir as a lesson for Thor, and proved so valiant that Thor gave him his own weapon.
Mjolnir gets passed around a bit, and apparently Thor can make similar, though lesser, weapons?
Storm has been pointed out as worthy of Mjolnir, but AFAIK she hasn’t actually held it. Captain America (duh) has used it twice. Interestingly, although Diana can wield Mjolnir, Supes can only use it in the heat of the moment.
Occasionally you’ll get little beats where someone moves Mjolnir without realizing what’s going on, like there’s apparently an EMT who shifts it out of his way in one story, just picks it up and sets it aside.
I am looking forward to seeing what fem!Thor is going to accomplish.
Thanks, Ally. I’m sorry about that. It was not intentional, but it was still shitty. I’m disappointed that I did that.
@Lea
It’s okay – I’m not upset or anything. I just like to call these things out because there should be at least someone doing that (people here generally don’t call out casual transmisogyny unless it’s from a troll).
Speaking of creepy dudes, just look at this AMR thread about a pro-harassment MR post: http://www.np.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/2aveli/misters_furious_that_a_woman_called_out_a_man_who/
I see what you did there.
For the record, this is only one storyline- it’s not permanent. And ironically I’m pretty sure it’s by Jason Aaron, who’s known for surprisingly intelligent, but very macho and hyperviolent stories. See Scalped and Punisher Max.
I have to admit that I would be bothered, though, if comic book characters I’m actually a fan of changed gender all of a sudden. Not “go online and complain about the supposed over-feminisation of western culture”, but I can’t say I’d be cool with it if Batman suddenly and irrevocably became a woman. If he got temporarily replaced by a woman, as is happening here, I wouldn’t mind at all. But to me actually altering Bruce Wayne and making him a woman is a step too far. I guess, if I have any half-legit sounding reason, because that has implications for who the character is as a person, and I’m not really cool with changing something as core to that character as his gender.
Well, fortunately, DC doesn’t have to make Bruce Wayne a woman — they already publish multiple distaff counterparts for him. And the new Batgirl doesn’t seem likely to do all that much brooding.
There needs to be a Batgirl who is trans. That would be awesome.
You know, if they actually were accurate to the original myth, Thor, and to an even greater extent, Odin, would be villains by Marvel’s standards. They would be war gods who don’t give a shit about justice or peace.
Also, someone should tell these people that, in the original myths, Loki is the mother of multiple creatures such as Sleipnir.
Plus, in the Marvel world, there were multiple Ragnaroks, even though Ragnarok is supposed to be the end of the world in which everybody except two humans and a couple of gods die. Yes, even Thor dies in Ragnarok.
Oh Ally, that harassment thread on r/mr…
Reminds me of that guy who was mad when he found out another dude posted pictures of his GF with her permission because the fact she consented ruined the whole thing for guy #1’s boner.
@AllyS I would be down for that. I dunno if you’re one of the 12 people left who still reads Batgirl, but Gail Simone gave Batgirl a trans roommate, but it doesn’t seem to have really amounted to much more than “here she is, look how liberal we are.” Not that Simone probably didn’t have better intentions for her, but DC editors have a way of making everything terrible and wasting opportunities.
I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am. That’s beyond creepy.
It would be awesome. More inclusivity FTW.
There’s a scene in the first Thor movie that people who know Sleipnir’s tale have had lots of fun with.
Odin.
Well, Odin provides the magical power. They have to contract with the dwarves to make the weapons themselves. It’s no easy task, either. As far as I’m aware, it’s only been done twice – Beta Ray Bill’s hammer Stormbreaker, and Thunderstrike’s mace um, Thunderstrike (it was the Nineties).
Actually, Cthulu, I thought Loki only gave birth to the Sleipner, and the rest he was Daddy for?
I could be wrong, because it’s been a long, long time since I actually read the myths (try, like, middleschool), but I thought Hel, Jormungandr, and Fenrir were his kidlets with the Giantess Angerboda, and Vali and Narfi were both his kidlets with his wife Sigyn. I think Vali was also with Sigyn, but he was the odd duck because some of the myths didn’t have him as a Loki-kid.
I always found the whole “Mother of Monsters” thing a little over the top. He was only “Mom” for the one, and in no universe is an eight-legged horse a monster. An eight legged horse is just gorgeous.
Myth Loki didn’t seem half as disturbed by that whole situation as I would be. He was written as if he thought it was all kind of a lark in the first version I read. I was furious on his behalf, though. I’d be totally traumatized by the whole Svadilfari thing.
ODIN! YOU ARE THE WORST BLOOD BROTHER EVER!
(Okay, since Marvel made Thor and Loki Bros instead of Uncle/Nephew… ODIN, YOU ARE THE WORST DAD EVER!)
To both Odins:
FIRST SVADILFARI, THEN THE MOUTH SEWING, THEN TYING SOMEONE UP WITH THE ENTRAILS OF THEIR OWN KIDS AND SHOVING THEM UNDER A SCARY, GIANT VENOMOUS SNAKE?? WHAT THE FLIP IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!?! ARE YOU PURPOSEFULLY TRYING TO DRIVE LOKI INTO STARTING RAGNAROK?!?!
Sorry for the all caps, but ODIN! YOU SLIMEBALL!!!!
(Not that this excuses Loki for the whole Ragnarok thing, or the murderous rampage-y things. Causing Armageddons is not okay. Killing people is also not cool.)
RE: DJG
Wow – almost a real life version of *What They Did to Princess Paragon*.
OH MY GOD I REMEMBER THAT BOOK.
RE: Lea
I actually think the idea of Wonder Woman being trans would be amazing.
Ditto! I’ve seen tumblr posts of Laverne Cox playing Wonder Woman. Fallon Fox also looks pretty awesome.
RE: Chaos-Engineer
You know, it says something about the US mainstream comics market when fucking ARCHIE, who is considered a symbol of white-bread USA, is more progressive and risk-taking.
RE: Anarchonist
I’m stuck on Invalidity talking about “women and females” and “female genders” (as in plural – am I missing something here?).
Pretty sure dude is basically claiming trans and various other genderful folk don’t exist and thinking only women make that shit up. (Trololol, they should meet my friends.)
contrapangloss – ever wonder if Loki first started to turn against the Aesir because they banished and bound his children for being big and scary?
Seraph, all the time.
And the ones that didn’t get cast out got murdered and used for bindings. Asgard is not a nice place.
@Ally,
Damn, now I *really* want to see Barbara become Oracle again (preferably with the wheelchair, since that’s another bit representation that’s sorely needed), and Alysia take over the Batgirl mantle. Especially if they actually put in the effort to get a trans person to write and/or draw for it.
And to clarify my post, I meant “bit *of* representation”. Not “bit representation”, that’s horrifyingly dismissive.
A little off topic:
Has anyone else been reading the title of this post in the sidebar as Red Pliers, or is it just me?