So, that happened.
The debate between Matt Binder (from the Majority Report) and Paul Elam (from A Pile of Money for Paul Elam) went off yesterday. I can’t say it went off without a hitch, because it was actually quite hitch-full. Indeed, it was kind of a disaster — at least for one Paul Elam.
Paul’s the one who wanted the debate. He chose the topic, he chose the format, he controlled the venue. And he lost the debate rather spectacularly, grimly reading a succession of prepared statements while Binder shot down his arguments with common-sensical one-lines and raised issues that Elam didn’t or couldn’t address.
Binder rattled Elam early by presenting him with an unattributed quote that sounded virtually identical to Elliot Rodger’s misogynistic rants and which Elam dismissed as something that no MRA would ever say; Binder then revealed that it was a quote from Stefan Molyneux, the MRA “philosopher” who was one of the featured speakers at AVFM’s recent conference. (Indeed, it was a quote that I highlighted in my first Misogyny Theater videos on Mr. M.)
Then, after Elam read off a list of all the various women who have associated themselves in some way with AVFM, Binder knocked the wind out of him by asking, quite simply, so what?
The most surreal moment, in a debate full of surreal moments, came 39 minutes into the debate. Binder had spent much of his previous two segments discussing an assortment of issues that the Men’s Rights movement largely ignores, even though they primarily affect men, and men of color in particular — from stop and frisk policies in major cities to the deaths of American soldiers in wars overseas.
But instead of answering Binder’s question –why hasn’t the Men’s Rights movement actually tried to do something about these problems? — Elam instead read his prepared “closing statement,” responding not to anything Binder had argued but to the arguments Elam, writing the statement before the debate, had assumed he would make.
And so, after hearing Binder passionately argue that the MRM needs to fight for the rights of men in prison and for the lives of men sent to fight and possibly die in wars, we heard Elam beating away on a straw man, declaring — after calling him a bigot — that Binder
has been led to believe, quite falsely, that gender justice mandates the summary rejection of all men’s problems in favor of a view that can only see men as the problem.
The debate, such as it was, lurched to its conclusion in an assortment of miscues and technical glitches a few minutes later. Dean Esmay, the incompetent and often ineffectual “moderator” of the debate, rocking back and forth on his chair in a darkened room, eyes mostly closed, plaintively asked Binder to send him “that particular story” on stop and frisk in New York city that Binder had referred to earlier in the debate. Esmay, defensive and exasperated, explained that
we are an all-volunteer organization and we don’t see every story. I’d like to see that story from Matt, please do send it to me.
Binder, incredulous, pointed out that stop and frisk has been in the headlines for years, as Esmay, visible in a small box at the bottom of the screen, rubbed his head as though he were developing a migraine. Esmay repeated his request, saying that
we cover a lot of stories; I’m just asking for you to send me that.
There were then a few uncomfortable moments as Esmay and Elam tried to figure out how to close down the Google Hangout that was hosting the debate.
Esmay: “Are we off?”
Binder: “Still says ‘live’ for me.”
Esmay: “Paul?”
Elam: “Yeah, I’m still having problem with the button.”
Esmay laughs.
Elam: “Isn’t that wonderful?”
Long silence. Esmay rocks back and forth on his chair.
Esmay: “Just close the window.”
A few moments later, he did.
I think we may need to have another AVFM graphics contest, incorporating what I think should be AVFM’s new slogans:
“I’m still having problem with the button.”
“We are an all-volunteer organization and we don’t see every story.”
A Voice for Men is clearly not ready for its closeup.
*raises hand* yes, yes I did. And River Phoenix. Not necessarily at the same time, but… sure, ok.
Although Point Break is certainly up there in 80’s hot-men movies, nothing can ever top The Lost Boys for me. Pretty vampire boys on motorcycles with big hair and eyeliner *swoon* Hellooooooooo 80’s Kiefer Sutherland.
Also, I applaud Woody for contributing something other than unfettered adoration for Paul Elam in our professional comment section. Well done, sir, well done.
Both separately, then together, then separately again? Not that I thought about the logistics of this as a teenager or anything.
RE: cassandrakitty
We here at Horny Moviegoers Anonymous welcome contributions from our gay members.
I’ve never understood the appeal of Keanu Reeves. I hear he’s a really nice person, but *shrug*. I guess I was born too late? I just don’t get it. But then again, using gay lingo, I’m more into the bear type. (Though it’s not a strict rule; hubby’s not a bear at all.)
RE: katz
On behalf of my deceased original, who was a total marching band geek, I thank you. And on behalf of her years as a bassoonist:
RE: bluecatbabe
I had a thing with a sweet and lovely guy for a while but sex was really offputtingly difficult due to his proportions.
I feel so bad for folks like that. Imagine having trouble finding clothes that fit, (and good luck asking the sales people, “Hey, do you have something with more room in the crotch?”) and ugh, I would HATE to worry about hurting my partner by accident just for being too big, you know? And worse, it’s one of those problems you can’t really complain about because people think you’re just bragging. The fantasy is probably way more fun than reality.
I have never truly felt sorry about not being hung. I’m also intensely relieved that hubby isn’t either, despite being a tank. I’m not that stretchy! (He has gotten a couple snarky remarks from folks who assume that just because he’s enormous everywhere else means he must be hung like an elephant, but no, I’m very, VERY happy he’s built the way he is.)
Yupperz, when i’m really worked up, i just print off a nice colored photo of Daniel Day-Lewis (anytime, anywhere), cut it his face out, paste it to a paper plate and tie it to my husband’s head. Secksy time ensues.
I’m into the ‘pretty boy’ type. I like Leonardo DiCaprio. As far as 80s movies, I really had a crush on Matthew Broderick and the actor who played the nice college guy in Adventures in Babysitting (the one with black hair and gorgeous blue eyes). I also like John Cusack (sp?). Johnny Depp in Chocolat is totally swoon worthy. Orlando Bloom is also a good looking guy.
Al Pacino during his Dog Day Afternoon era sets my heart a-flutter.
Aw, we made him mad!
Alan Tudyk is not a pretty boy, but definitely good looking and seems fun. Denzel Washington has to be on some sort of top ten greatest smiles list.
More, more! Woody is boring, we need to try to make him pop.
Does anime count? Can I admit my crush on Inu Yasha?
Hey, Woody, look over there – it’s Cillian Murphy!
::reads contrapangloss’s comment::
::dies::
Keanu never did anything for me, but I can see why other people are into him.
I’m just glad I’m not the only one who had a crush on Matthew Broderick! I never really noticed men much when I was younger, but being partnered with one seems to have increased my interest in men in general. Let’s see, who else? Lee Min Ho, especially in Faith/The Great Doctor. Chaz Bono. Ryan Gosling (I was “meh” at first but he’s said some feministy stuff that bumped him up to “yes please”). IDK, I’m more likely to find people attractive on the street than on a screen or in a photo.
(I want to mention Lucas Grabeel, but that would mean admitting that I liked High School Musical, even though I was in college when it came out)
Unimaginative, don’t worry, I had a crush on him too.
Anime doesn’t do it for me, but it will probably annoy the misters, so sure! Or how about a guy who looks like he stepped right out of a bishounen manga?
(He hits the uncanny valley effect a bit for me, but I’m guessing that anime-loving girls will think he’s the best thing ever.)
Anime always counts.
Gosling is physically not my type at all, but the feministy stuff definitely made me take notice of him.
Not actors, but what does the community (nontrolls) think of Johnny Rzeznick or Jason Wade? Any hockey fans think Loui Eriksson is gorgeous?
Not a fan of the music, but I do not deny that Rzeznick and Wade are easy on the eyes. So is Eriksson, though I had to google him to make sure he was who I thought (I only end up watching hockey when my brother is around; Mr. FM maintains an opinion of firm indifference when it comes to sports of any stripe).
Again, way too buff to be my type, but Teemu Selanne has beautiful eyes.
@ Skye, I had to look them all up. Kind of meh for me. The only time in my life I’ve ever paid attention to hockey was the Nagano Olympics, when I was crushing on Brendan Shanahan. He did a whole swack of adorable commercials.
And then I lost interest again. Sports are just not interesting to me.
Brendan Shanahan, yes, quite
In hockey pretty boys of the 90 we also can’t forget Pavel Bure.
Cassandrakitty, very true
Actually trying to list the guys I tend to go for, and then think about why others who would fall into broadly the same category don’t appeal to me, has been kind of interesting for me in that it makes me realize how much I prefer softer facial feature over a more chiseled look, even if Mr Chiseled is very pretty. Also pretty much all of the men I find really attractive have a. a big friendly smile and b. a sort of gentle quality to them. I always knew machismo was a turnoff for me, but it’s kind of funny to realize how much any sort of coldness to the personality is too, and how consistently I go for faces that have that sort of soft, open, friendly look to them.