So, that happened.
The debate between Matt Binder (from the Majority Report) and Paul Elam (from A Pile of Money for Paul Elam) went off yesterday. I can’t say it went off without a hitch, because it was actually quite hitch-full. Indeed, it was kind of a disaster — at least for one Paul Elam.
Paul’s the one who wanted the debate. He chose the topic, he chose the format, he controlled the venue. And he lost the debate rather spectacularly, grimly reading a succession of prepared statements while Binder shot down his arguments with common-sensical one-lines and raised issues that Elam didn’t or couldn’t address.
Binder rattled Elam early by presenting him with an unattributed quote that sounded virtually identical to Elliot Rodger’s misogynistic rants and which Elam dismissed as something that no MRA would ever say; Binder then revealed that it was a quote from Stefan Molyneux, the MRA “philosopher” who was one of the featured speakers at AVFM’s recent conference. (Indeed, it was a quote that I highlighted in my first Misogyny Theater videos on Mr. M.)
Then, after Elam read off a list of all the various women who have associated themselves in some way with AVFM, Binder knocked the wind out of him by asking, quite simply, so what?
The most surreal moment, in a debate full of surreal moments, came 39 minutes into the debate. Binder had spent much of his previous two segments discussing an assortment of issues that the Men’s Rights movement largely ignores, even though they primarily affect men, and men of color in particular — from stop and frisk policies in major cities to the deaths of American soldiers in wars overseas.
But instead of answering Binder’s question –why hasn’t the Men’s Rights movement actually tried to do something about these problems? — Elam instead read his prepared “closing statement,” responding not to anything Binder had argued but to the arguments Elam, writing the statement before the debate, had assumed he would make.
And so, after hearing Binder passionately argue that the MRM needs to fight for the rights of men in prison and for the lives of men sent to fight and possibly die in wars, we heard Elam beating away on a straw man, declaring — after calling him a bigot — that Binder
has been led to believe, quite falsely, that gender justice mandates the summary rejection of all men’s problems in favor of a view that can only see men as the problem.
The debate, such as it was, lurched to its conclusion in an assortment of miscues and technical glitches a few minutes later. Dean Esmay, the incompetent and often ineffectual “moderator” of the debate, rocking back and forth on his chair in a darkened room, eyes mostly closed, plaintively asked Binder to send him “that particular story” on stop and frisk in New York city that Binder had referred to earlier in the debate. Esmay, defensive and exasperated, explained that
we are an all-volunteer organization and we don’t see every story. I’d like to see that story from Matt, please do send it to me.
Binder, incredulous, pointed out that stop and frisk has been in the headlines for years, as Esmay, visible in a small box at the bottom of the screen, rubbed his head as though he were developing a migraine. Esmay repeated his request, saying that
we cover a lot of stories; I’m just asking for you to send me that.
There were then a few uncomfortable moments as Esmay and Elam tried to figure out how to close down the Google Hangout that was hosting the debate.
Esmay: “Are we off?”
Binder: “Still says ‘live’ for me.”
Esmay: “Paul?”
Elam: “Yeah, I’m still having problem with the button.”
Esmay laughs.
Elam: “Isn’t that wonderful?”
Long silence. Esmay rocks back and forth on his chair.
Esmay: “Just close the window.”
A few moments later, he did.
I think we may need to have another AVFM graphics contest, incorporating what I think should be AVFM’s new slogans:
“I’m still having problem with the button.”
“We are an all-volunteer organization and we don’t see every story.”
A Voice for Men is clearly not ready for its closeup.
Can’t have the servants slacking off to pleasure themselves when there are kittens needing a human to sleep on!
This is pretty much why Mr K has drawn a line in the sand – or rather, floorboards – at our bedroom door. 😀
Didn’t know young Bernal before, but he’s a very pretty young man. Lovely eyes.
His wife is gorgeous too, so I’m going to have to vote “lol” on the whole only men over 6 ft tall get laid thing, cause he’s tiny.
Question for trolly:
My man looks nothing like any Hollywood star ever. He has no money, and in the days when he did wasn’t wild about spending it, generally. He was never considered charismatic – far from it. He’s a mere 5’7″. But he’s the most beautiful man who’s lived in this world or any other, as far as I’m concerned, and I’d never want sex with another person. How can this be?
Here’s three anonymous dudes who’re perfectly nice-looking – nothing outstanding, just pleasant – but whose attraction factors go WAY up because not only are they cuddling kitties, they’re at a sanctuary for blind cats. Full article here.
All the comments about kitties made me think of http://lillybrush.com/be-forever-furless/
In this household, we would need to redefine “forever” to be “until you sit down again”.
Ha! HA! One could only be forever furless if one spends 100% of one’s time using that brush. Even then, I don’t believe it. Furs are everywhere, they float in the air, following the remote control directives.
=> TARGET: HUMAN
=> TARGET SIGHTED
=> LOCK ON TARGET
=> ACCELERATE
=> TARGET STRIKE SUCCESSFUL
BTW, Kittehs, since I remember that you like Kaneshiro too, and you also seem to like facial hair, have you ever seen Returner? Incredibly silly movie, but worth sitting through just because he spends most of the movie running around with sexy stubble, long hair, and a leather trenchcoat.
No, I haven’t seen any of his movies – only the odd clip from them. Must look that one up!
::does quick Google::
Oooh-er, yes!
Or a bit older, in (?) The Warlords. I know facial hair’s not your thing, but he’s looking damn fine here.
My favourite is Chow Yun-fat (especially in Anna and the King and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon). I find him beautiful.
The Warlords was a good movie actually. If you can deal with musicals Perhaps Love was pretty good (and recent), and Red Cliff is awesome (and he gets to play his real age). I’d still vote for Chunking Express, Lavender, or Lost and Found as his best though, or Too Tired to Die where Mira Sorvino plays Death if you like self-consciously artsy movies. K-20 is ridiculous but fun, and his bits of Fallen Angels are great (rest of the movie is terrible).
Normally I’m kind of meh about facial hair, but on Kaneshiro it looks great. He looks best when he’s sort of scruffy – long hair, stubble, kind of bohemian looking.
LOL, I’m not dumb. This is what Cassandra said: “Men can get away with being complete slobs about their appearance, and they know this. Coming from an aggressively misogynistic man a lack of attention to personal grooming could well be a way of asserting privilege, whether consciously or unconsciously, in a way that’s not unrelated to the PUA tendency to nitpick at women’s looks in an attempt to reinforce the social assumption that women’s looks matter and men’s don’t.”
Did you catch that? Here it is again: “Coming from an aggressively misogynistic man a lack of attention to personal grooming could well be a way of asserting privilege”
So she actually said that MRAs oppress women by looking like slobs. Pretending that I was talking about some other quote won’t obfuscate that fact.
He does indeed. Just looking at those pics, he can rock almost any hair/facial hair cut and combination.
[or any Mammotheer who likes men and cats.
I didn’t mean to be exclusive!]
Much appreciated.
Oh, I like Apepophis. He’s just *gets* me.
It’s so true. I went outside yesterday in track pants with dirty hair, and men walking their dogs came rushing to seek my favor. I had to beat them out of the way just to get to the garbage cans. One took the trash bag out of my hand and insisted on having the honor of disposing of my old chicken bones and string cheese wrappers himself. Sir Walter Raleigh came back from the dead so that he could lay his cloak over the mud puddle by the bins, even though my other gallant protectors had made sure that my dainty feet would never touch such foul substances. Then when I said that I felt ugly, what with having not brushed my teeth or anything, they all began plying me with chocolate and white wine and crying “Forsooth, sweet lady, how can one who wears a single-digit jeans size ever despair?! You know that you are perfection incarnate. She walks in beauty, like the night!” That’s when my husband had to come outside with a broom and chase them away so that I could actually get inside the house again. I felt kind of bad about Sir Walter Raleigh, what with him having gone to considerable trouble, but then again, he didn’t have rock-hard abs or a bulging muscles, so I guess on balance, meh.
@Cassandra
If you’re a Gael Garcia Bernal fan, and everyone should be because he’s a fantastic actor, you should definitely check out the Chilean film “No” if you missed it. It’s an amazing movie and Bernal is pretty much onscreen the entire film, looking very soulful and handsome.
Holy smokes, Flying Mouse, when you’re on your game hilarity ensues.
It’s not like “butterface” is a thing.
Oh wait – yeah, it is. Women with faces that aren’t conventionally attractive and conventionally attractive bodies have a specific label to describe their unattractiveness!
So there goes the claim all women have to do to be conventionally attractive is be thin.
@brooked – I think that I need a certain type of troll to inspire me. Not just any rageboner will do. There must be ludicrous theories, thwarted entitlement, a complete lack of self-awareness, and above all, a certain je ne ai sais quoi. That is where my muse lies.
Theres a Gael Garcia Bernal film called bad education. I can’t really remember what happens but his beautiful face is in it a lot. In fact thinking abut it I think it was rather problematic so warning advised.
When I said esmay looks unwell (like on the first page), I meant like flu or migraine. Does that still count as armchair diagnosing? I don’t care about his rocking or having a beard(?) but he just looked really unwell and unhappy.
There’s nothing wrong with being grubby. I’m a bit grubby, but I’m not comparing a supposedly important debate that’s being recorded. It just looks unprofessional.
Effed up my borrowed French there! je ne ai sais quoi = je ne sais quoi
Apologies to Francophones everywhere!
Seeing Gael García Bernal’s face is terribly problematic to me. I think he should wear a veil lest we be unable to control ourselves in his presence. Really, it would be empowering for him to do so. Here, Gael: wear this paper bag.
Apep claims that “all women have to do is be thin”, followed by a long-ass whine about the onerous diet and exercise regimen men must endure to meet whatever standard of attractiveness he thinks is important. Because apparently being thin is super easy for every woman, and requires no dietary changes or exercise at all. In fact, I’m wishing myself down a dress size right now!*
*LOL no, I happen to like how I look now, and actually kinda miss how voluptuous I was before I started working again. Misandry, probably!
Joey Ramone loved his kitties. <3
http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/joey-ramone.jpg
…and another. <3
http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/joey-ramone.jpg
@Apep:
So your named after an ancient demon of chaos who probably represents the shitty, old way of thinking and gets murdered by the current gods as part of the establishment of civilization.
So you represent that which must be destroyed so the future can arrive. Good to know.