Debate: Matt Binder of the Majority Report vs. Paul Elam of A Voice for Paul Elam

But David that’s the entire issue with Men’s Rights as a movement. There’s no acknowledging of what anyone else has to say. Everything is posed as a competitive argument. “Men are the victims of domestic violence too!” “Men get raped too!”. “There are women who support Men’s Rights!” Instead of a legitimate dialog about how things could be made better for everyone it’s a game of one upmanship followed by diatribes about how those things are the fault of feminism. Or women in general since MRA’s seem to equate all women as feminists and vice versa.

As a man I’ve never self identified as a feminist. It took the MRA’s to get me to realize that I am. And to realize that if they actually wanted to fix the legitimate issues men face (suicide, domestic violence, bullying etc) they’d likely have allies in feminists. Instead they simply use those issues as a prop for blanket attacks on women and feminism.

Elam lost that debate for the same reason the MRA “movement” is stalled in neutral. Because they’d rather attack and smear people than roll up their sleeves and fix anything.

ConservativeGirl,

Could it have been AbsoluteWriter? I used to be all about that site.

@ Conservative Girl

Right out of the blue with a complete scenario that he was very sure about, huh? Divorece is probably his core issue, then, in the same way “hot girls wouldn’t fuck me in high school” is for the guys at the more PUA end of the manosphere.

(Of course both groups then build on that and move into other forms of misogyny, but it’s interesting/useful to know what’s really motivating them.)

Woody! Please say something to prove that you are a real boy and not made of wood. Consider it a personal challenge.

Woody! Even the AVFM fanboys are saying Elam shouldn’t have read from prepared notes and he should let someone else do the honours next time.

Hey LBT, it’s Orion! Aren’t you thrilled?

Assuming this is the Orion I think it is, can you take Woody and the bug that just landed next to me, and go someplace else? Preferably outdoors so the bug can go free. Thanks!

Didn’t watch it. I just can’t get past how much Elam reminds me of the Jack Nicholson character in The Shining. It’s distracting.

Here’s Pauly!

Shut up, Woody.

GrumpyOldNurse, cassandra – Heeeere’s Pauly! has been around before.

I still haven’t gotten around to seeing The Shining, but now I’m worried that I’ll be picturing Paul Elam the whole time…

The AVfM comments are so good, to the point where they have a nougaty deliciousness. They are that good. The faithful are picking through the fiery wreckage while gently criticizing Elam’s performance, without actually admitting Binder mopped the floor with poor old Paul.

Josh O’Brien • an hour ago
Please don’t take this as my attacking of Paul. It was simply a comment that I feel the purpose would have been better served by another person. I would have gladly debated Matt Binder, had I been aware of his willingness to enter a debate (or indeed, his existence). I respect Paul hugely, of course, but I still feel that if we’re going to hold debates to make our points, they should be taken by the absolute best we have to offer, and in my opinon that would be Karen Straughan, or JTO, or JudgyBitch, for example.
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Paul Elam > Josh O’Brien • 12 minutes ago
I certainly did not take it as an attack, but I disagree with you nonetheless, and do feel like it is a bit of armchair quarterbacking (which I think you have the right to do)

I am not a professional debater, but then again, when I am addressing these issues with people who have to put on at least the air of integrity then I think you will find the outcome is different than what you saw here.

Here is a playlist of several of my interviews, from people who were very user friendly, to people who were hostile and oppositional. In every case, though, they had to try to appear objective. I don’t think you can find any real fault in my performance in them.

::Paul’s Interviews – YouTube — youtube.com::

It is one thing when you are facing honest dissent, and tough but reasonable questioning. It is something else entirely when you are dealing with someone like Binder.

My only job there was to point out his lies. Nothing else was every going to come of this, regardless of who did the debate, thus the script.

I would do it the same way again, with anyone like Binder, because that is the only thing that makes sense.

I have to say Paul is more convincing to his followers when he doesn’t have to actively engage with other people’s ideas and just makes shit up. Responding to points the person your debating with is making is really only done in the professional debate world. That’s why most non-pro debaters read from prewritten scripts while staring wide-eyed at a webcam.

In the end, poor old Paul was brought down by a lying feminist liar who lies. In the end he’s a MRA martyr and just because he did a terrible job doesn’t mean “you can find any real fault in [his] performance”. A hero, a patriot, and a true friend to men (who agree with him and give him money).

Like Josh O’Brian, I would love to see JudgyB debate Binder. I would pay money to make that happen.

*Cripes, I used “in the end” twice in my last paragraph. I really need to start doing that “proof reading” thing I heard so much about.