Let’s say that you’re the “Managing Editor” of a website known far and wide for calling women “whores,” as well as an assortment of other 4- and 5-letter words generally considered crude sexist slurs. Let’s just say that you had a convention, and that during this convention your official spokeswoman went on a bit of a name calling rampage on Twitter, repeatedly attacking a woman who had tried to report on said convention as an “attention whore,” a “fame whore,” and a “little whore,” and offering similar “whore”-based assessments to other critics of the site.
And let’s just say that despite all this you also had a desire to convince the world that your site was not actually the misogynistic cesspit that it so obviously is. Would you:
1) Apologize for using the words “whore” and “bitch” and “c*nt” and other similar sexist epithets against women.
2) In your capacity as editor, quietly remove the word “whore” (and “bitch” and “c*nt”) from future postings on the site, and tell your PR maven to maybe come up with a less misogynistic insult of choice.
3) Start calling men whores so that no one can accuse you of hating women because, see we use “whore” to refer to men too!
The answer, of course, is 3 — at least if you’re Dean Esmay, “Managing Editor” of A Voice for Men. In a recent comment thread on AVFM, he declared:
![Screen Shot 2014-07-08 at Tue, [Jul 8], 14 5](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/screen-shot-2014-07-08-at-tue-jul-8-14-5.png?ssl=1)
CONFIDENTIAL TO D— E—-: No one is buying your bullshit. Also, if you want to try to convince the world that you’re a Friend of Sex Workers, you should probably stop using the word “whore” as an insult for women or men.
Not being the one who proposed the question, I can’t speak for that commenter, but I think what was meant was more along the lines of why is DNA so incredibly important to you regarding children, not that the commenter thought you should be used/abused.
Personally, my son would still be my son even if I discovered tomorrow/next week/a decade from now that we somehow share no genetic material. He is my son because I love him, I’ve cared for him, I’ve watched him grow and I want the best for him. His genes have nothing to do with that.
Also, a quick Google search led me to http://www.legalaid.qld/gov.au which describes in detail how to get a paternity test in Australia and use it to contest child support. It does state that proof of paternity or not will not be enough to get CSA to not charge for support, but that seems to be more related to that organization’s mission than ‘evil feminists preventing Australian men from paying for some other guy’s kids.’ The organization requires a court order. The courts seem to accept paternity tests as evidence.
” I’m an Asian boy living in a white neighborhood in a white state and a white country. But I don’t have a problem with white people as a whole because I lived in a community where I was the only one like me, so there were no clustering of people of the same group with each other and no group polarization. I had a lot of people who didn’t like me and were white but also a few who did like me and were white. So I know that all white people aren’t bad and you won’t use that to convince me to give you my voice and speak for ”
You’re an asian boy?
Oh dear,I’m asian too..
But seriously it’s quite funny to think you’re paranoid that woman would commit a paternity fraud with you or that if you end up with a woman she would cheat on you with an alpha guy..
But it seems you lot more paranoid with white women rather than women in general.Do you convinced yourself if you met an asian feminist you would assume she would cuckold you as well?
I understand if you have issues with white women but don’t use feminism as a scapegoat…
Hey,I live in an asian country,most of the women do not even know what feminism means but that doesn’t mean men are not being cuckolding here.there is no correlation between cuckolding by women and feminism…
Heck a non-feminist woman would actually have more excuse to find a man to fund for her..
Not a feminist stance. Really, if you’re going to critique feminism (perfectly valid activity) please critique actual feminism, not straw feminism.
Also, your entire world view is incredibly heteronormative and cisexist, and those things are also not feminist stances, so I’m seriously doubting you ever actually cared about feminism.
@bittersteel – We actually did have a troll use that backstory; he was here about a week ago. That particular guy was also claiming to be a progressive and a feminist, too, while he spouted racist, classist, and sexist bullshit all over the damned place. FWIW, I think you’re a lot more genuine than he was. At least you’re letting your anger flag fly free.
And I’m sorry that you’ve been so badly bullied and the target of so much racism. My husband grew up as a nerdy immigrant kid with an accent and a weird name. His stories about school and his early years in the army can be pretty harrowing, and he had the advantage of being white. And feminism does have serious issues with intersectionality; a few days ago we were actually talking about how many feminists blank on racist and classist issues on another thread.
I’m still not sure how shitty people you’ve known = feminism is the greatest evil there ever was, though.
Why are MRAs so obsessed with cuckolding? It baffles me. I feel like they have a secret kink for it. If it wasn’t for the fact that I don’t condone the porn industry (not porn itself, but the industry) I’d recommend watching cuckold porn. However, I’m sure there is written porn about it, so if you are interested in that as a kink/fetish I’m sure you can find some erotica that’s just up your alley.
Anyways, seriously bittersteel’s claims that “Women don’t get called sluts because I’ve never heard it from my friends who I admit I don’t talk about that kind of stuff with” would be like me saying “I have minority friends but I know they’ve never been called racial slurs because I’ve never heard it from them even though I feel uncomfortable when they bring up race issues so we never talk about them.” It just doesn’t work. If talking about sex makes you uncomfortable then fine that isn’t a horrible thing. Some people aren’t into sex (I’m asexual, though I’m not repulsed by sex, so I don’t mind talking about it or even indulging in sexual acts) and that’s fine. It’s fine when men aren’t into sex. But you can’t just go claiming these things never happen, not only based on your small 20ish groups of friends, but based on something you admit you never talk to them about.
I’m gonna be real here: I’ve been called a slut by guys for rejecting them. I’ve also been threatened, harassed (not “asked on a date” but had a guy repeatedly make sexual advances despite me saying no), and made to feel unsafe and like I was a bad person. For saying no. Don’t try to hand me that pile of crap that men don’t do that. Many of them do. And the same can be said for women – sometimes when women get rejected by a guy they insult his “manhood.” Some people are just shitty. But IT STILL HAPPENS.
If someone asks another person on a date that is not harassment. If they keep insisting and bothering the person or threatening them THAT is harassment. No college dean is going to hear “this guy asked me out on a date once, that’s sexual harassment,” and get the guy in trouble. Hell, half the time they don’t get sexual predators in college in trouble regardless of what they do. So you can stop pretending that’s ever going to happen in this universe.
Remember when I advised you to stay away from caffeine? I was serious.
This is fucked up, by the way:
“But in feminists’ worldview, I’m not free to do that and only women can set boundaries in the relationship because she has a vagina and needs to be taken care of. And you’re accusing me of being a misogynist who thinks that women can’t deal with the consequences of their own actions and choose whether or not to freely enter into contracts with men. LOL”
Some people skip having kids and just adopt a kitty or puppy.
Congratulations! You’re a feminist!
Hold on a tic. Where did all this straw come from?
“Also, it just me or was bs’s parenting comment really offensive to adoptive and step parents?”
Not having the same values as someone else is NOT offensive. If consent to spend all of their time and hard work on someone else’s kids, They’re free agents and have that right. it’s not my problem and not my concern. It is my problem and concern if I’m being saddled with someone else’s kid against my will. That’s slavery. I personally wouldn’t adopt or marry someone with children from a prior relationship, but I have no problem with other people doing that. Saying something that indicates you don’t personally envision yourself taking on another person’s life choices is not offensive. You can’t force me to conform by claiming that disagreeing with you is offensive. This is exactly what Elam says you guys do, and it’s so true.
You’re talking to a group which contains a majority of women, many of whom are married to perfectly nice men and many of whom have children.
Obviously you haven’t had any long-term relationships from what you’ve said, but I’m here to tell you that men are people just like women. They are individuals with their own likes and dislikes, otherwise known as preferences and boundaries. Relationships are about people being loving and kind and supportive and respecting each other’s autonomy – and that includes boundaries. All sorts of boundaries, not just sexual.
“Congratulations! You’re a feminist!”
No. According to your worldview, I’m not free to leave a cuckold relationship and I have an obligation as a slave to support the woman/queen and her alpha god’s spawn. McDonagh literally said that if men don’t give women their support when women do this to them, it’s misogyny, and you very heavily implied this too.
BS: your arguments support not having children at all, not that there’s any superiority in raising your biological children.
But it’s incredibly offensive, to all step-parents and adoptive families.
This might be mindblowing, but the idea that married men are automatically the providers is totally false. My wife makes far more than I do and pays virtually all the bills. I’m the one in the career that requires hard work just to break into. Every single one of your absolutist claims fails miserably.
“But in feminists’ worldview, I’m not free to do that and only women can set boundaries in the relationship because she has a vagina and needs to be taken care of. And you’re accusing me of being a misogynist who thinks that women can’t deal with the consequences of their own actions and choose whether or not to freely enter into contracts with men. LOL”
Not really,when you said you want to dedicating your life to a life of chastity,you don’t hear anyone here stopping you?
Why you still worried about a woman who would cheat on you?
Do you have any woman approaching you?
Seriously nobody held a gun to your head to force you into a relationship with women….
@manhattansbalcony
You so silly, thinking MRAs have consistency. If ever there was proof they don’t care about anything they are talking about it is how dumb they are about their lack of consistency. It’s the same with conservatives though, that’s how you know it’s all lip service for status/power.
“Level 30”? Are we discussing a video game? Christ, you’re a child, stop pestering adults.
Who the fuck is actually trying to do this to you? Your paternity fraud statistics were proved wrong. Stop trying to justify your hatred of women with fake statistics. You’re not fooling anyone.
@ skye
Yeah, I read that as “paternity ALONE is not sufficient to determine custody or support payments”.
Such as in the case of step parents, where even if the parent paying support isn’t biologically the parent, the situation could still call for it.
Meh, in any case, evidence for a evil feminist conspiracy is strangely absent.
” I personally wouldn’t adopt or marry someone with children from a prior relationship”
Unless they’re really desperate,I doubt they would..but don’t worry those horrible white women probably not interested in you…
Nonsense. If your relationship is making you unhappy for any reason, you are free to choose to leave or to stay. It’s entirely your choice.
If you’re really seriously concerned about relationships and how they might or might not work for you, I’d suggest reading a few items over at http://captainawkward.com/
“No. According to your worldview, I’m not free to leave a cuckold relationship and I have an obligation as a slave to support the woman/queen and her alpha god’s spawn. McDonagh literally said that if men don’t give women their support when women do this to them, it’s misogyny, and you very heavily implied this too.”
No my only worldview is feminism are not forcing you to stay in a cuckold relationship,and we’re still waiting for a evidence that feminist force paternity fraud on you…
Bittersteel,
Your talk of being a biological organism suggested that you think it is unnatural to care for a child who doesn’t share your dna and that spreading dna is the only reason to have kids. I do think that’s offensive.
And speaking of racism, stop equating things that aren’t slavery with slavery. That’s really offensive too.
Yeah, hey there, little fella. If you leave the room, you’ll get a plate of cookies and a glass of milk. I swear.
This straw about feminist forcing him to be a hubby and father is fucked up. Christ Femininst 101 blogs are everywhere. Lazy much? Read before you attempt to throw your weight around in a place like this.
Let me see if I can find the worldview comment you’re looking for…
Hmmmm… is that what cuckholding means? Entering into a mutually respectful partnership with a partner who shares your values and is nice to you and doesn’t treat you like a slave/scum?
“Also, your entire world view is incredibly heteronormative and cisexist, and those things are also not feminist stances, so I’m seriously doubting you ever actually cared about feminism.:
Well naturally I don’t discuss those things because I’m neither gay or transgendered and those issues don’t affect me. As long as I don’t discriminate against them or advocate restricting their rights (which as a libertarian I fully support), I don’t see why I need to spend my whole life focusing on their issues. I don’t want to appropriate their struggles. I’m well aware that they’re more than capable of supporting their own causes. Unlike feminism, which appropriates them so that it can get unaudited funding from the government for the issues that other people face.
Wut?
Seriously, where did anyone here say anything like this, at all?
I’m assuming it’s a reference to my earlier statement about how other people are free to use their bodies however they want.