Let’s say that you’re the “Managing Editor” of a website known far and wide for calling women “whores,” as well as an assortment of other 4- and 5-letter words generally considered crude sexist slurs. Let’s just say that you had a convention, and that during this convention your official spokeswoman went on a bit of a name calling rampage on Twitter, repeatedly attacking a woman who had tried to report on said convention as an “attention whore,” a “fame whore,” and a “little whore,” and offering similar “whore”-based assessments to other critics of the site.
And let’s just say that despite all this you also had a desire to convince the world that your site was not actually the misogynistic cesspit that it so obviously is. Would you:
1) Apologize for using the words “whore” and “bitch” and “c*nt” and other similar sexist epithets against women.
2) In your capacity as editor, quietly remove the word “whore” (and “bitch” and “c*nt”) from future postings on the site, and tell your PR maven to maybe come up with a less misogynistic insult of choice.
3) Start calling men whores so that no one can accuse you of hating women because, see we use “whore” to refer to men too!
The answer, of course, is 3 — at least if you’re Dean Esmay, “Managing Editor” of A Voice for Men. In a recent comment thread on AVFM, he declared:
![Screen Shot 2014-07-08 at Tue, [Jul 8], 14 5](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/screen-shot-2014-07-08-at-tue-jul-8-14-5.png?ssl=1)
CONFIDENTIAL TO D— E—-: No one is buying your bullshit. Also, if you want to try to convince the world that you’re a Friend of Sex Workers, you should probably stop using the word “whore” as an insult for women or men.
Ever read Aesop’s fable of The Fox and the Grapes?
“It is easy to despise what you cannot get”
OMG, he’s adorable! Can we keep him?
“I can barely stifle my laughter at the thought that you literally cannot put two and two together and see that calling a woman you don’t like a slut or a whore is a form of slut-shaming, and it is one of the MRM’s favorite activities.”
I can’t speak for the rest of the MRM, but I’ve personally never called anybody a slut or a whore. I don’t even say “bitch” or “asshole” (or really swear at all for that matter, and if I do, I usually start mentally attacking myself for doing it).
Men insult each other by saying “you can’t get laid”. Women insult each other by slut-shaming. These insults for some reason are particularly hurtful. I think all that you’re seeing is people appropriating the insults that are directed at them by other members of their sex and using them against each other. That’s why some MRAs (not all, because I never do it) call women sluts and that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid.
@Bittersteel
Many men still slut shame despite wanting sex from women. It doesn’t make sense at all but they still do it. And yeah women slut shame too but that doesn’t mean men are innocent.
@bittersteel:
OK, women do it more than men. So, how many women have to stop slut shaming before Dean Esmay becomes responsible for his own behavior?
Here’s the thing: even if it’s true that slut shaming is primarily a female activity, how does it follow that it’s okay for men, or whomever, to call people “whores”?
y’know, tu quoque and all that
And strangely, just as feminists are against slut-shaming, they are also against virgin-shaming. Because, you know, noone’s worth is measured by the frequency of their sexual activity.
For pity’s sake. Let’s clear this up at least.
1. We don’t care who does or doesn’t get laid.
2. When people say that they do care about not having a partner or the number of casual hookups they’d like, we ‘re not interested.
3. When such people come to us complaining about this, we’re likely to tell them it’s not our job to help them with these matters.
4. In some instances where people seem really lost in this area, one or more of us might mention all the standard suggestions – get more interests in your life, make more friends, take up new activities, maybe improve clothing or grooming.
In summary. We neither think or care about who might or might not get laid.
I’m gonna nickname this one NAMRAALT
Did we just see the return of “asshole is a gendered insult”?
You can tell Bitterlemons is not a woman and has never been street-hassled, can’t you?
Sometime, little boy, men call women who won’t give them the time of day “sluts.” If you had any women friends, you’d know this.
And this is blurry: “The slut shaming is done by women to other women as a means of controlling access to sex.”
So, women slut shame to control access to sex? Whose access to sex? Men? Women? How does that work? Woman A calls woman B a slut, and suddenly other men won’t have sex with B? So now all the men will have sex with woman A? Or slut shaming keeps men from having sex at all?
Eh, too bad it’s too early to drink where I am.
“That’s why some MRAs (not all, because I never do it) call women sluts and that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid.”
…speaking of cognitive dissonance
Whoops. Lost a line there.
We neither think nor care about who might or might not get laid …
But we’re also not inclined to be nasty about it. Some of us are kind enough sometimes to try and help someone who seems genuinely confused or troubled about the subject.
Except- wait for it- hang on-
There it is.
Shit, we’re supposed to be virgin-shaming now? And here I was strongly maintaining the opinion that I care not at all how much or how little sex someone has as long as everyone involved is satisfied with the process. Thank goodness we have MRA’s to tell us feminists what we’re supposed to think!
Ahhhhhh! Ahahahahaha, OMG, I can’t breathe! *huff, huff*
#NotAllMRAs
#YesAllFeminists
I thought this bit was priceless: “Instead, the evidence favors the view that women have worked to stifle each other’s sexuality because sex is a limited resource that women use to negotiate with men, and scarcity gives women an advantage.”
I think troll boy hasn’t explored MRA fully yet. If he did, he’d know about one of their pet theories — “the pussy pass” and other related hits. I’m sorry, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard an MRA claim sex is a limited resource for women. Also, he’s ignoring things like culture, gender based socialization, and other reality based goodies.
Bittersteel,
You guys have this weird insistence on calling her “Senator Anne Cools” every time you say her name is like some kind of talismanic ward against criticism. Say “Sentaor” all you like, we’re still gonna disagree with her.
I’m not giving traffic to that shithole and I’m definitely not gonna scour through a bunch of artivles and comments looking for “a particular” person who may be a feminist but whose views on sex workers I probably don’t share.
“totally gross”? Guys, I think this might be a parody.
You can’t just jump from “feminists” to “women” like that. Also, everyone here is aware that women can and do perpetrate misogyny, so weak “gotcha” is weak.
The problem with “all” statements is it only takes one counterexample (like the fact that I don’t use this insult because I think it’s tacky, masculinity-policing and counterproductive) to blow up the whole claim.
NAWALT, etc.
@ bittersteel
Those articles you link to don’t say exactly what you think they say either…
From the last article you cite: “As for the phenomenon of women calling each other sluts, Armstrong suspects that the practice will continue as long as women are taught to value sexual purity.”
You realize that this is stuff that feminism fights against, right? Purity culture is bad, and not at all ‘natural’. That many, many women who are not feminists, and even some that are, are taught and internalize damaging and harmful things about sex and sexuality in general.
Here, this might help you wrap your feeble little mind around the concept: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/227686554_WOMEN'S_BENEVOLENT_SEXISM_AS_REACTION_TO_HOSTILITY
“As predicted, benevolent sexist attitudes—but not hostile sexist attitudes—were strongest for women told that men hold negative attitudes toward women. This effect is consistent with a benevolent sexism-as-protest explanation and was statistically significant even while controlling for attitudes toward feminism. ”
You understand, or do I have to break it down for you more?
Wow, I love how Dean Esmay literally acknowledges that “whore” is a whorephobic slur*…and then excuses Elam for using it because the target was someone they didn’t like. They aren’t making a single effort to appear not bigoted.
*And therefore it’s a misogynistic one as well, but that would be inconvenient for him to acknowledge.
Who is this Bitterkins and what is he looking for here?
No, they claim it’s a limited resource for men. It’s that bullshit about how 90% of the women are having sex with 10% of the men or some shit. The claim he’s making (I’ve seen others make it, too), is that women shame each other for having sex with men in the lower 90%, because it lowers the collective value of our vaginas and makes it harder for us to hold out for the upper 10% and make them pay through the nose for access. I can barely even explain it coherently, it’s so stupid.
I stopped reading there.
Protip: When you lead with an obvious lie, I’m not the only one who figures that there is nothing of value in the rest of your post.