Let’s say that you’re the “Managing Editor” of a website known far and wide for calling women “whores,” as well as an assortment of other 4- and 5-letter words generally considered crude sexist slurs. Let’s just say that you had a convention, and that during this convention your official spokeswoman went on a bit of a name calling rampage on Twitter, repeatedly attacking a woman who had tried to report on said convention as an “attention whore,” a “fame whore,” and a “little whore,” and offering similar “whore”-based assessments to other critics of the site.
And let’s just say that despite all this you also had a desire to convince the world that your site was not actually the misogynistic cesspit that it so obviously is. Would you:
1) Apologize for using the words “whore” and “bitch” and “c*nt” and other similar sexist epithets against women.
2) In your capacity as editor, quietly remove the word “whore” (and “bitch” and “c*nt”) from future postings on the site, and tell your PR maven to maybe come up with a less misogynistic insult of choice.
3) Start calling men whores so that no one can accuse you of hating women because, see we use “whore” to refer to men too!
The answer, of course, is 3 — at least if you’re Dean Esmay, “Managing Editor” of A Voice for Men. In a recent comment thread on AVFM, he declared:
![Screen Shot 2014-07-08 at Tue, [Jul 8], 14 5](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/screen-shot-2014-07-08-at-tue-jul-8-14-5.png?ssl=1)
CONFIDENTIAL TO D— E—-: No one is buying your bullshit. Also, if you want to try to convince the world that you’re a Friend of Sex Workers, you should probably stop using the word “whore” as an insult for women or men.
“Yes, I know that feminism has done a good job of tricking people and exploiting them. Just like it does to POC every day for the sake of affluent white women.”
I know that you being bullied a lot by white women,which makes me assume that your problem with feminism must be lied with some unresolved issues with white women…
Trust me,we non-white feminists I would not allowed anyone to exploit us…
Except assuming that all values are arbitrary…
what if my values include imposing my values on you? If you assume all values are arbitrary and that you have a right not to be imposed upon, your position is self-defeating
I’m an anarcho-pacifist, so take exception at your claims that I’m trying to use “government violence” to do so.
Well I’m sorry my beliefs make you cry. Libertarians make me cry all the time. Claiming that selfishness is a virtue does, in fact, make me cry. Advocating the abandonment of children is by definition an imposition on them.
I’m not sure how “treating everyone as if they are of equal value” is despicable, or why it makes you cry. It makes me feel sad for the horrifying, narrow world you apparently inhabit.
bittersteel is fractally wrong about … well, everything, but this at least is amusing. Yes, cis feminists are just sucking up the piles of cash thrown at trans women. Because trans women get so much financial support. This is a true thing.
I mean Bittersteele, not Blockquote. That was weird.
If you guys don’t support paternity fraud then what’s up with what you guys are doing in France and Australia? What’s up with the McDonagh article? What’s up with the new article/opinion in Pediatrics (the journal) that advocates against paternity testing?
Honestly, I’m a little frustrated with the MRM and with feminism right now. Feminism because it’s a supremacy movement that supports paternity fraud. MRM because there are so many disgusting people masquerading as MRAs that it makes my head spin and because people like Paul don’t know how to keep their anger in check. I mean, for example, I get that Paul’s idiotic DV article was a reaction to that totally disturbing and disgusting Jezebel article, but I think he let his anger about Jezebel supporting DV against men get the best of him when he wrote that. It’s easy for feminists to take everything out of context. What he should have done was condemn the Jezebel article. He makes his own rope for them to hang us with and it’s not fair that he’s running the movement instead of someone who can keep his/her anger in check.
. “Using government violence to impose your beliefs and worldview on me is, however, imposition.”
You called this a discussion? So far the only things I hear is accusation on feminism.
I thought Bittersteel was an ASOIAF reference. I don’t think that GRRM would be pleased about a misogynist libertarian using a reference to his books, but ok.
Anyway, Bittersteel, are you ok with fathers abandoning their biological children? If you believe that selfishness is bad if it hurts others, you should be against it. Yet, mras think fathers should be able to abandon their children and they think child support is oppressive.
According to you, liberty and property are meaningless values you made up. So why shouldn’t I violate them?
What if my value system says I do?
Aww, poor baby.
ooh, idea for a mod challenge: produce more than two other documents from non-MRA sources that demonstrate that feminists support paternity fraud
“I’m not sure how “treating everyone as if they are of equal value” is despicable, or why it makes you cry. It makes me feel sad for the horrifying, narrow world you apparently inhabit.”
Because you don’t believe men have equal value. You think they are slaves and tools for you to use for your own benefit. They MUST support your cuckold babies because they’re slaves and if they don’t do that they’re authoritarian misogynists and deserve to be put down. No. That is not egalitarianism. That is not respecting human dignity. That is nothing short of pure, unadulterated betacide.
OK, bittersteele. Can you actually provide proof for any of this:
Provide actual proof that this is a goal of feminism, and something that happens with any kind of frequency.
Prove that anyone is advocating for this. Just quote them. Prove that this is a major goal of feminism.
What cash? No, seriously, provide proof of the major cash flow going into “feminists” coffers by appropriating the struggle of trans people.
“Government violence.” Like what? How is “the government” holding a gun to your head and making you believe in feminism?
And if you don’t know what “spermjacking” is, you obviously haven’t been doing your MRM homework. Google it,
The whole world admires Ted Bundy and Jeremy Meeks? Really? Good to know.
Incidentally, in spite of the fact that you keep claiming feminists are out to cockold men, no one here seems to be supporting that world view. Maistrechat asked questions about children and DNA and stated all people are equally valued, but this does not necessarily imply agreement with paternity fraud. Also, that commenter stipulated that those were the views of said commenter, not anyone else. Additionally, (please forgive me if I’m wrong, maistrechat) I think that particular commenter is a man. This is relevant only because you seem obsessed with the idea that all women, and feminists in particular, are for paternity fraud.
Go fuck yourself. I wasn’t tricked into siding with feminists. I’ve sided with them because only feminists and womanists have genuinely supported me and other trans women.
@Skye
That’s why I said they hadn’t been reading my comments very carefully.
@bitterfella
Spoiler Alert: There is no MR movement, just a bunch of nitwits online harassing and complaining about women.
“I thought Bittersteel was an ASOIAF reference. I don’t think that GRRM would be pleased about a misogynist libertarian using a reference to his books, but ok.”
How does being against paternity fraud and against white women appropriating the struggles of minorities make me a misogynist?
“Anyway, Bittersteel, are you ok with fathers abandoning their biological children? If you believe that selfishness is bad if it hurts others, you should be against it. Yet, mras think fathers should be able to abandon their children and they think child support is oppressive”
I didn’t say selfishness is bad if it hurts others. I said it’s bad if it violates people’s negative rights. For example, putting a rapist in jail hurts his children because it deprives them of financial support they would be getting otherwise. But that doesn’t mean it violates the child’s rights and therefore should not be done. Similarly, if I buy Toys’R’Us and fire all the workers and shut it down because I feel like it, that doesn’t violate anybody’s rights.
So bittersteel, I have a question for you. First and foremost I’m simply going to take all of your comments at face value, assume that you aren’t a troll and furthermore assume that the anecdotes you’ve shared are 100% true if only for the sake of this conversation.
So here’s the question. If you are no longer interested in “girls” as you’ve said and plan to never be married, never have children (your own or others) and are perfectly content to “go your own way” with your own career and interests etc then why do you care at all about feminism? Or therefore about anti-feminism/Men’s rights?
The cuckolding, false rape allegations, crushing divorce settlements, unfair custody decisions, domestic violence perpetrated by women and all the other claptrap that MRA’s fight will have absolutely nothing to do with you.
It can’t possibly be because of concern for other men. Your core value of selfishness eliminates that possibility. And it can’t be for a concern for society as you’ve already explicitly said you don’t care about that.
So why do you care about any of this? Because very clearly you do.
I guess you’re missing the part of the comment where I said I was a pacifist. You’re putting an aweful lot of words in my mouth.
Why does that make you cry, babycakes? That’s virtuous in your universe.
“If you guys don’t support paternity fraud then what’s up with what you guys are doing in France and Australia? What’s up with the McDonagh article? What’s up with the new article/opinion in Pediatrics (the journal) that advocates against paternity testing?”
GOOD!!!
Now we get to point…
God I’m so tired of endless debates with him….where is your proves that we support paternity fraud?!!!
Even you provide the links to to those articles you still can’t say that we support paternity fraud!!
Heck we can get angry at Paul Elam if he said the word cunts,whores,and we’ve read about it!!
Can you individiual MRAs dissassociate from him??!!
Heck even feminists are allowed to disagree witch each other,but you seem to get defensive and turning to accusation like paternity fraud…
::throws hands in air::
Seriously, wowsa. None Dare Call It Betacide.
If I recall, YOU were the one making the claim that not everyone was of equal value.
I’ll quote it directly:
” I think that particular commenter is a man. This is relevant only because you seem obsessed with the idea that all women, and feminists in particular, are for paternity fraud.”
I’m well aware that there as male feminists as I used to be one myself. And that same male feminist friend I mentioned earlier literally said that women should be allowed to open a phonebook and pick out a male name, name him as the father of her child, and force him to pay child support. Literally. I could not make something this insane up if I tried. That’s the kind of stuff that feminists activists have been implementing and it’s not fair.
Ok, I’ll spell it out for you.
That’s because you’re not saying that.
What you’re saying is all women everywhere are looking to commit paternity fraud and that this is something feminists are 100% behind and encourage and are attempting to make this the law if the land.
What you’re saying is that all feminists are cis het white women who don’t really care about racism, homophobia or transmisogyny, or any other injustice, but are just exploiting these issues for the sweet, sweet social justice money.
The money you’ve yet to be able prove exists and is flowing into feminists coffers.
The only person who has been tricked and exploited is the new chew toy.
Libertarianism offers nothing concrete and positive to anyone but the ultra rich.