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men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA whores

Dean Esmay's Secret Plan to Fight Sexism by Calling Everyone a Whore

Let’s say that you’re the “Managing Editor” of a website known far and wide for calling women “whores,” as well as an assortment of other 4- and 5-letter words generally considered crude sexist slurs. Let’s just say that you had a convention, and that during this convention your official spokeswoman went on a bit of a name calling rampage on Twitter, repeatedly attacking a woman who had tried to report on said convention as an “attention whore,” a “fame whore,” and a “little whore,” and offering similar “whore”-based assessments to other critics of the site.

And let’s just say that despite all this you also had a desire to convince the world that your site was not actually the misogynistic cesspit that it so obviously is. Would you:

1) Apologize for using the words “whore” and “bitch” and “c*nt” and other similar sexist epithets against women.

2) In your capacity as editor, quietly remove the word “whore” (and “bitch” and “c*nt”) from future postings on the site, and tell your PR maven to maybe come up with a less misogynistic insult of choice.

3) Start calling men whores so that no one can accuse you of hating women because, see we use “whore” to refer to men too!

The answer, of course, is 3 — at least if you’re Dean Esmay, “Managing Editor” of A Voice for Men. In a recent comment thread on AVFM, he declared:

Screen Shot 2014-07-08 at Tue, [Jul 8], 14 5

 

CONFIDENTIAL TO D— E—-: No one is buying your bullshit. Also, if you want to try to convince the world that you’re a Friend of Sex Workers, you should probably stop using the word “whore” as an insult for women or men.

 

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contrapangloss
7 years ago

Yep. Fine example of MRALogic, at it’s convolutedest.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Sure, and when you call straight guys homophobic slurs it ceases to be homophobic.

Oh…wait…
No it does not. not.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Dang. I was laughing at Jamie Kilstien and I typed “not.” twice.
KIIILSTIEN! *shakes fist*

Luzbelitx
7 years ago

They still don’t grasp the difference between human rights advocacy “we want no one hurt” and their own motto “we want to hurt everyone equally”.

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
7 years ago

So he recognizes that “whore” makes no sense as a term for people who are paid to be dishonest, that it is offensive to use the word as such, and yet…?

bittersteel
bittersteel
7 years ago

Feminists call women “whores” (actually women in general do slut shaming far more than men do) and it’s the MRAs who point this out and defend the women being attacked. If you look at some of the articles about ICMI 14, you’ll see a particular feminist repeatedly, on multiple articles, implying that Erin Pizzey, Dr. Palmatier, Karen Straughn, and the Most Esteemed Senator Anne Cools are prostitutes when she says that they are “just telling these men what they want to hear. At least they’re being paid. What’s it called again when women are paid to make men feel special?” The MRAs are the ones pointing out that this is denigrating to women. I especially find it ironic that the feminists are always complaining about how women in politics are sexualized (I don’t believe it’s true because ew, they’re all over the age of 50! Anybody who sexualizes them is totally gross!) and then she implied that the Senator Anne Cools was a prostitute. Very diverse and totally non-racist of the feminists.

magnesium
magnesium
7 years ago

Has he posted his super serious, mind-blowing, earth shattering questions to Mr. Serwer publicly? I’m excited to find out what all important questions the great minds at AVFM have for a reporter who dared ask about a faux-charity’s finances.

magnesium
magnesium
7 years ago

Feminists call women “whores” (actually women in general do slut shaming far more than men do) and it’s the MRAs who point this out and defend the women being attacked. If you look at some of the articles about ICMI 14, you’ll see a particular feminist repeatedly, on multiple articles, implying that Erin Pizzey, Dr. Palmatier, Karen Straughn, and the Most Esteemed Senator Anne Cools are prostitutes when she says that they are “just telling these men what they want to hear. At least they’re being paid. What’s it called again when women are paid to make men feel special?” The MRAs are the ones pointing out that this is denigrating to women. I especially find it ironic that the feminists are always complaining about how women in politics are sexualized (I don’t believe it’s true because ew, they’re all over the age of 50! Anybody who sexualizes them is totally gross!) and then she implied that the Senator Anne Cools was a prostitute. Very diverse and totally non-racist of the feminists.

Wow, Bittersteel, can you point to the link that you’re directly quoting, and explain why one anonymous news commentator is now the official voice of all feminists?

ladyrainicorn517
ladyrainicorn517
7 years ago

I’m just tickled by that brief flash of self-awareness in the middle there. If you read his bloated comments as streams of consciousness – and I do – you get to see repression in action. It’s very exciting. For science.

girlscientist
girlscientist
7 years ago

@bittersteel:

(I don’t believe it’s true because ew, they’re all over the age of 50! Anybody who sexualizes them is totally gross!)

How old are you? Twelve?

maistrechat
7 years ago

I’m tempted to call a Poe on bittersteel after that “totally gross” aside.

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
7 years ago

Feminists call women “whores” (actually women in general do slut shaming far more than men do) and it’s the MRAs who point this out and defend the women being attacked.

Sure, MRAs will defend women who are being insulted if the woman is sympathetic to their cause. I would love to see an instance of an MRA defending Anita Sarkeesian or the woman protesting CAFE against gendered slurs. Lol.

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

Wait, bittersteel’s post wasn’t sarcastic? No, wait, now I’m being sarcastic. I mean, once you start a post with, “Feminists call women “whores” (actually women in general do slut shaming far more than men do)…” like it’s a scientific fact without a citation, you’ve already lost.

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

Oh, and that bit about sexualizing women politicians, and eww gross, they’re over 50! Yeah, very tweener. Very jr. shitlord in training. They start ’em young, don’t they?

manhattansbalcony
7 years ago

Will somebody explain to me why people who think date rape is just regretted sex would say things designed to make women regret sex? I’m willing to take them on their word that they actually believe it, but wouldn’t that make you work to relieve the stigma against having sex with men? According to them, men are suffering because women are made to feel ashamed of casual sex and there they are, making the problem worse.

FifthInterval
7 years ago

Of course, calling someone like Serwer a “whore” (using a misogynist slur against a man) involves feminizing them, which absolutely is an intended part of the insult, coming from them. This whole “it’s a gender-neutral term” dodge is utter horseshit.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

Shorter bittersteel: Older women are gross. Thanks a lot, asshole.

bittersteel
bittersteel
7 years ago

You don’t believe that women are responsible for slut shaming? Um, that doesn’t even make any sense if you think about it logically. Men have very little incentive to slut-shame women if they want to sleep with them because that makes women less likely to sleep with them. The slut shaming is done by women to other women as a means of controlling access to sex. Multiple studies have showed this. Here’s the conclusion of one study as well as a link to the text: “The view that men suppress female sexuality received hardly any support and is flatly contradicted by some findings. Instead, the evidence favors the view that women have worked to stifle each other’s sexuality because sex is a limited resource that women use to negotiate with men, and scarcity gives women an advantage. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)” (Source: http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/gpr/6/2/166.pdf).

Another study found that women use slut-shaming as a way of competing with other women for mates: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/science/a-cold-war-fought-by-women.html?ref=science?src=dayp&_r=2&

A third study finds that wealthy/affluent women are more likely to slut shame, and that they usually slut shame less affluent women (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/slutshaming-isnt-related-sexual-activity_n_5418711.html). The whole point of that is to prevent less affluent women from using their sexuality to undermine the power that affluent women hold over the affluent/hot men.

I mean, let’s be real here. You guys think that MRAs are guys who can’t get laid. Why on earth would we want to slut shame? Doesn’t enforcing those types of sexual standards on women just make it less likely that we would get laid than if we encouraged women to have as much sex as possible? Plus I know from personal experience that I don’t really think about who’s sleeping with whom at college. It’s not my problem. I similarly don’t care if they’re using drugs or drinking hydrochloric acid or whatever. Not my problem, not my concern. but apparently you guys think I’m an evil patriarchal slut-shamer extraordinaire.

You guys have extreme cognitive dissonance.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

Will somebody explain to me why people who think date rape is just regretted sex would say things designed to make women regret sex?

If something happens to you, it’s your fault. If something happens to me, that’s also your fault.

It’s a great way to ensure they don’t feel any of those pesky emotions like sorrow, sympathy, pity, guilt or shame. They just get to keep nursing that sweet, delicious rage, spiced with self-righteousness.

damselindetech
7 years ago

Ooooh, evopsych. This is going to be entertaining. *grabs popcorn and hunkers down*

FifthInterval
7 years ago

“You guys think that MRAs are guys who can’t get laid. Why on earth would we want to slut shame?”

Punishment for sleeping with the wrong guys? I know that whole Eliot Rodger thing was, what, decades ago, I think, but it was pretty big news at the time. You might want to read up on it – it might help you better understand what you’re trying to criticize.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

You guys think that MRAs are guys who can’t get laid. Why on earth would we want to slut shame? Doesn’t enforcing those types of sexual standards on women just make it less likely that we would get laid than if we encouraged women to have as much sex as possible?

But, Bittersweet, logic is misandry! /snark

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Do women over 50 even exist? I’ve never seen one.

/douchebro mode

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

You guys have extreme cognitive dissonance.

Citation needed.

PS The irony is strong in this one!

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
7 years ago

You guys have extreme cognitive dissonance.

Omg, the smell of irony in the morning. My favorite.

I can barely stifle my laughter at the thought that you literally cannot put two and two together and see that calling a woman you don’t like a slut or a whore is a form of slut-shaming, and it is one of the MRM’s favorite activities.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

I mean, let’s be real here. You guys think that MRAs are guys who can’t get laid. Why on earth would we want to slut shame?

Ever read Aesop’s fable of The Fox and the Grapes?

“It is easy to despise what you cannot get”

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
7 years ago

The slut shaming is done by women to other women as a means of controlling access to sex.

OMG, he’s adorable! Can we keep him?

bittersteel
bittersteel
7 years ago

“I can barely stifle my laughter at the thought that you literally cannot put two and two together and see that calling a woman you don’t like a slut or a whore is a form of slut-shaming, and it is one of the MRM’s favorite activities.”

I can’t speak for the rest of the MRM, but I’ve personally never called anybody a slut or a whore. I don’t even say “bitch” or “asshole” (or really swear at all for that matter, and if I do, I usually start mentally attacking myself for doing it).

Men insult each other by saying “you can’t get laid”. Women insult each other by slut-shaming. These insults for some reason are particularly hurtful. I think all that you’re seeing is people appropriating the insults that are directed at them by other members of their sex and using them against each other. That’s why some MRAs (not all, because I never do it) call women sluts and that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid.

sadie6
7 years ago

@Bittersteel

Many men still slut shame despite wanting sex from women. It doesn’t make sense at all but they still do it. And yeah women slut shame too but that doesn’t mean men are innocent.

manhattansbalcony
7 years ago

@bittersteel:

OK, women do it more than men. So, how many women have to stop slut shaming before Dean Esmay becomes responsible for his own behavior?

maistrechat
7 years ago

Here’s the thing: even if it’s true that slut shaming is primarily a female activity, how does it follow that it’s okay for men, or whomever, to call people “whores”?

y’know, tu quoque and all that

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Men insult each other by saying “you can’t get laid”.

And strangely, just as feminists are against slut-shaming, they are also against virgin-shaming. Because, you know, noone’s worth is measured by the frequency of their sexual activity.

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

I mean, let’s be real here. You guys think that MRAs are guys who can’t get laid.

For pity’s sake. Let’s clear this up at least.

1. We don’t care who does or doesn’t get laid.

2. When people say that they do care about not having a partner or the number of casual hookups they’d like, we ‘re not interested.

3. When such people come to us complaining about this, we’re likely to tell them it’s not our job to help them with these matters.

4. In some instances where people seem really lost in this area, one or more of us might mention all the standard suggestions – get more interests in your life, make more friends, take up new activities, maybe improve clothing or grooming.

In summary. We neither think or care about who might or might not get laid.

damselindetech
7 years ago

I’m gonna nickname this one NAMRAALT

maistrechat
7 years ago

Did we just see the return of “asshole is a gendered insult”?

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

You can tell Bitterlemons is not a woman and has never been street-hassled, can’t you?

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

Sometime, little boy, men call women who won’t give them the time of day “sluts.” If you had any women friends, you’d know this.
And this is blurry: “The slut shaming is done by women to other women as a means of controlling access to sex.”
So, women slut shame to control access to sex? Whose access to sex? Men? Women? How does that work? Woman A calls woman B a slut, and suddenly other men won’t have sex with B? So now all the men will have sex with woman A? Or slut shaming keeps men from having sex at all?
Eh, too bad it’s too early to drink where I am.

maistrechat
7 years ago

“That’s why some MRAs (not all, because I never do it) call women sluts and that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid.”

…speaking of cognitive dissonance

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

Whoops. Lost a line there.

We neither think nor care about who might or might not get laid …

But we’re also not inclined to be nasty about it. Some of us are kind enough sometimes to try and help someone who seems genuinely confused or troubled about the subject.

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
7 years ago

I can’t speak for the rest of the MRM

Except- wait for it- hang on-

Feminists call women “whores” … and it’s the MRAs who point this out and defend the women being attacked… The MRAs are the ones pointing out that this is denigrating to women.

There it is.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
7 years ago

That’s why some MRAs (not all, because I never do it) call women sluts and that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid.

Shit, we’re supposed to be virgin-shaming now? And here I was strongly maintaining the opinion that I care not at all how much or how little sex someone has as long as everyone involved is satisfied with the process. Thank goodness we have MRA’s to tell us feminists what we’re supposed to think!

fromafar2013
7 years ago

That’s why some MRAs (not all, because I never do it) call women sluts and that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid.

Ahhhhhh! Ahahahahaha, OMG, I can’t breathe! *huff, huff*

#NotAllMRAs
#YesAllFeminists

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

I thought this bit was priceless: “Instead, the evidence favors the view that women have worked to stifle each other’s sexuality because sex is a limited resource that women use to negotiate with men, and scarcity gives women an advantage.”

I think troll boy hasn’t explored MRA fully yet. If he did, he’d know about one of their pet theories — “the pussy pass” and other related hits. I’m sorry, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard an MRA claim sex is a limited resource for women. Also, he’s ignoring things like culture, gender based socialization, and other reality based goodies.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

Bittersteel,

You guys have this weird insistence on calling her “Senator Anne Cools” every time you say her name is like some kind of talismanic ward against criticism. Say “Sentaor” all you like, we’re still gonna disagree with her.

If you look at some of the articles about ICMI 14, you’ll see a particular feminist repeatedly, on multiple articles

I’m not giving traffic to that shithole and I’m definitely not gonna scour through a bunch of artivles and comments looking for “a particular” person who may be a feminist but whose views on sex workers I probably don’t share.

I especially find it ironic that the feminists are always complaining about how women in politics are sexualized (I don’t believe it’s true because ew, they’re all over the age of 50! Anybody who sexualizes them is totally gross!)

“totally gross”? Guys, I think this might be a parody.

You don’t believe that women are responsible for slut shaming? Um, that doesn’t even make any sense if you think about it logically.

You can’t just jump from “feminists” to “women” like that. Also, everyone here is aware that women can and do perpetrate misogyny, so weak “gotcha” is weak.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

that’s why all feminists insult guys by telling them that they can’t get laid

The problem with “all” statements is it only takes one counterexample (like the fact that I don’t use this insult because I think it’s tacky, masculinity-policing and counterproductive) to blow up the whole claim.

NAWALT, etc.

fromafar2013
7 years ago

@ bittersteel

Those articles you link to don’t say exactly what you think they say either…

From the last article you cite: “As for the phenomenon of women calling each other sluts, Armstrong suspects that the practice will continue as long as women are taught to value sexual purity.

You realize that this is stuff that feminism fights against, right? Purity culture is bad, and not at all ‘natural’. That many, many women who are not feminists, and even some that are, are taught and internalize damaging and harmful things about sex and sexuality in general.

Here, this might help you wrap your feeble little mind around the concept: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/227686554_WOMEN'S_BENEVOLENT_SEXISM_AS_REACTION_TO_HOSTILITY

“As predicted, benevolent sexist attitudes—but not hostile sexist attitudes—were strongest for women told that men hold negative attitudes toward women. This effect is consistent with a benevolent sexism-as-protest explanation and was statistically significant even while controlling for attitudes toward feminism. ”

You understand, or do I have to break it down for you more?

Ally S
7 years ago

Wow, I love how Dean Esmay literally acknowledges that “whore” is a whorephobic slur*…and then excuses Elam for using it because the target was someone they didn’t like. They aren’t making a single effort to appear not bigoted.

*And therefore it’s a misogynistic one as well, but that would be inconvenient for him to acknowledge.

ratzilla
ratzilla
7 years ago

Who is this Bitterkins and what is he looking for here?

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

I’m sorry, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard an MRA claim sex is a limited resource for women.

No, they claim it’s a limited resource for men. It’s that bullshit about how 90% of the women are having sex with 10% of the men or some shit. The claim he’s making (I’ve seen others make it, too), is that women shame each other for having sex with men in the lower 90%, because it lowers the collective value of our vaginas and makes it harder for us to hold out for the upper 10% and make them pay through the nose for access. I can barely even explain it coherently, it’s so stupid.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Feminists call women “whores” (actually women in general do slut shaming far more than men do)

I stopped reading there.
Protip: When you lead with an obvious lie, I’m not the only one who figures that there is nothing of value in the rest of your post.

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