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$MONEY$ a voice for men lying liars MRA paul elam

Paul Elam: All Your Donations Are Belong to Me

Paul Elam, in his hovel.

Heh. I’m on my annual semi-vacation this week, and was planning on keeping my postings here fairly light. But the news waits for no one. And by “news” I mean the daily parade of ridiculousness coming from the Men’s “Human Rights” camp. So here’s a quick report on the latest bit of high irony involving A Voice for Men.

Well, I was wrong. I’ve often noted that the Men’s Rights movement in general, and A Voice for Men in particular, doesn’t actually provide any real help for any real men. Sure, as far as I can tell, precisely zero of the hundreds of thousands of dollars A Voice for Men has raised from donors over the years has gone into providing actual services for men — say, funding a hotline for troubled men or some other practical program that doesn’t primarily involve yelling at women online. But never let it be said that none of this money gods to help men.

Because, it turns out, that money has been going to help men. Or at least that subset of men that consists of one Paul Elam of Houston Texas.

After being pressed for details about A Voice for Men’s finances by anonymous commenters on Reddit, a certain Twitterer named @DavidFutrelle and a journalist from MSNBC, Elam has finally fessed up and admitted that all the money donated to his website goes directly to him. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s what Elam had to say in a post from yesterday:

Every dollar donated goes right into my pocket. I spend that money on this website and on activist efforts at my own discretion, considering the opinions of the AVFM management team that volunteers to help run this place. … I depend on the site for my living, and to do as much FTSU as possible while I am at it.

In the past, of course, Elam was a bit more, well, elusive about where the money was going, talking about the costs of paying for web hosting and stock images rather than, say, the costs of paying the mortgage of one Paul Elam. Maybe “elusive” isn’t the correct word. “Deceptive” might be more like it.

You may also recall this pitch he once made for donations (I’ve put the best parts in bold):

I am tired of seeing a comparative handful of men and women cough up the lion’s share of financial assistance when most, even some who come here every day to read and cheer on FTSU, won’t cough up five fucking dollars to help us out; who are just fine as long as none of the burden, even a trivial part of it, is on them. …

[T]he longer I am at this, the less patience I have with dead weight, those who think AVFM is a fucking source of entertainment, or a life preserver for when the tables finally, inevitably turn against them.

In a way, I feel even worse now for most of the men who will make contact with AVfM looking for that lifeline. Unless their story is one that has the potential for me to exploit and gain media attention to THE CAUSE, then all I will have for them is a link to this article.

Well, and perhaps this piece of advice.

If the system has ruined your life, join the club. You are now in the ranks of men you have ignored your whole life. My advice to you is simple. Take your fucking quietly and with grace. Expect the same compassion you have always extended to those men who wore the shoes you are now wearing.

If you want things to change, then stock up on Ramen, get cozy in your studio apartment and join us in the fight to fix this shit. Don’t ask us to help you, but rather give your life the only meaning it may have left, as someone ready and willing to turn your meager existence into helping others who have been similarly screwed over.

In other words, Elam told troubled men turning to his site for help that they should stock up on Ramen noodles — and pay his bills. Oh, and on several occasions he’s boasted about taking donations from people taking the money from their unemployment checks.

As for the other people who put in so much time and energy at his site? As far as I can figure it from Elam’s evasive post yesterday, they earn nothing but a “thanks.”

At the end of each day, even with the incredible levels of help I get from people like Dean Esmay, David King, Al Martin and every one of the incredible people who work at AVFM, I am still target number one. I am a target for feminists posing as concerned MHRAs, yellow hacks like David Futrelle, and a target for many in the media who would love nothing better than to publish my personal financial information after putting their disgusting spin on it.

As you might have gathered from that quote, Elam remains indignant that anyone would even ask where the money goes.

And that goes for the money he recently raised that was supposedly earmarked to pay the security costs of AVFM’s conference. About that, he says only:

we hired four police officials (three officers and one supervisor) for coverage of the entire event and also hired a local attorney, paying his retainer in advance.  We also had to engage our regular attorney, and have not yet been billed for their services.

In effect, we spent the money raised on precisely what we said we would spend it on, and have set aside what little remained for the next conference.

Really? According to costhelper.com, off-duty police officers generally cost $40-60 an hour; this Sheriff’s department puts the costs at $27-$31 an hour for each of its officers, including administrative fees. Even assuming that AVFM paid at the top of this range — $60 an hour — it would have cost them only $7200 to pay for four officers working ten hours each of the three days of the conference.

The amount that AVFM might have paid for legal fees depends on how much their lawyers charge per hour, and how many hours they worked. Assuming each lawyer charged $200 per hour and worked thirty hours over the three days of the conference — which I highly doubt — the cost for their legal assistance would have added up to $12,000. If AVFM actually paid even half that for legal fees I will eat my cats.

Even with these extremely generous assumptions, AVFM would have paid out only a little over $19,000 for security and legal fees. AVFM raised more than $30,000 for “security.”

In the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I also ask readers for donations. But I’ve always made clear that aside from donations specifically earmarked for other things the money goes to me. (And the cats.) And I don’t demand that donors pay me $20,000 per quarter — $80,000 a year — on top of whatever donations come in between the quarterly fundraisers, not to mention special “security” fundraisers.

I’m very grateful to those who donate to me — and indeed to everyone who’s contributed time and effort and knowledge and artistic skills to help the site — but I take in only a fraction of what Elam evidently takes in. And I don’t ask for money from those who are themselves broke.

In the comments on AVFM, the regulars are of course rallying around Elam. Then again, I can’t imagine anyone critical of what he does with the money would remain unbanned there for long.

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Shadow
Shadow
10 years ago

@Toolbox

I’d really like examples of this violent feminist rhetoric.

Well, this one time in band camp…

@bittersteel

I signed a chastity-for-life pledge after reading about this garbage behavior

Well, that’s one example of successful MRA activism anyway, I’ll give you that.

To reiterate, although I doubt any of you cheerleaders will hear considering how far up your ears those pom poms are stuffed, no one here has a problem with Elam using donations to sustain himself. What people have a problem with is that he did not raise this money saying that it was for his own bills, he raised it saying it was for conference expenses, and the extra 30 gs for security. We also have a problem with the way he exhorts others to sacrifice massively in order to donate to AVfM when his lifestyle is much more lavish than the one he tells his readership to take on “for the cause”.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Shut up, Woody.

Doug: And that evidence would be…?

bittersteel: Well, congrats, I guess, on trying to shove all the talking and drop all the names in one long teal deer. But no, Karen Straughan does not loom large on the cutting edge of psychology or evolutionary studies, no matter how much evo psych bullshit she pulls wholesale out of her ass. And this bit here really gives you away:

I had no idea that paternity fraud was so rampant (16%-30%? Like seriously, that’s totally disgusting. And I just love how women operate with this-first you have to meet impossible standards to met a nice one and successfully convince her to like you and then she just sleeps with an alpha and makes you pay for the child for the rest of your life. How wonderful that all of your hard work and efforts go to the benefit of everyone except yourself. I signed a chastity-for-life pledge after reading about this garbage behavior), for example, and that only certain states protect you from it. So guess what? After I finish my education, I will go live in one of those states that protects me from having some random girl that I have never met naming me as the father and then giving the judge a wrong address so that I can be hitched forever even though I’m not the father and the DNA tests say so. Thanks to AVFM I know that men can be victims of DV and rape, that many women are vindictive, and that the pay gap is about choice and not about discrimination (something that convinced me to make a better choice about my own career path and to pursue a higher paying career instead of a lower paying one).

You’re really fucking terrified of women, aren’t you? You do know that the incidence of paternity fraud isn’t that high, right? See pallygirl’s post a couple of posts above yours. And a random woman you don’t know naming you as father of her child and then a judge forcing you to pay child support, even with a paternity test proving your not the father is just not something that happens. Like at all. “Many women are vindictive.” Uh-huh, no misogyny here, folks. And, yes indeed, there is a gendered pay gap which holds true even when things like career choice, hours worked, leave taken, etc. are controlled for. So, no, it’s not just about choice.

But whatever. You folks just keep sending Elam your hard earned money and keep telling yourselves he’s using it to actually help men.

A fool and his money, after all.

Shiraz
Shiraz
10 years ago

I’m sorry, I can’t stop chuckling at the shit lord up thread who’s going to live a safe state because of his fear of sperm-jacking. Oh man, this is how hate groups poison the minds of the young.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
10 years ago

(unlike feminist articles, AVFM seems to document everything with sources every time they make a claim)

There are literally millions of feminist articles out in the world, by thousands of authors. Are you really gonna claim none of them include citations? Are you familiar with the phrase “not even wrong”?

You keep mentioning Jezebel. You realize they’re not central to the movement, or even particularly well-regarded by other feminists, right? Thinking that Jezebel:feminism::AVfM:the MRM is one of the telltales of someone whose only knowledge of feminism has been fed to them by MRAs.

The rest of your teal deer just confirms that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

sebhai
sebhai
10 years ago

@bittersteel

I really,really don’t understand why is it the MRAs or the likes of misogynists still think that a woman ripping off financially from a man or cuckolding him and lying to him about paternity is somewhat a part of feminist agenda when they are still trying very hard to fight for equal pay?

And why would a feminist be interested in paternity fraud?
What good does it bring to them?

Bravo on being a stay home dad,but the question is which feminist actually taken a stance against stay at home dad,and which feminist exactly that push a man had to be a provider or a slave fro his family?
I thought even in gynocentric and feminist frineldy country like Sweden is pushing for dad to be involved in their children’s lives but the way you BIttersteel phrase it as if the feminist have involving in a war against stay at home dad for a very long time?

sebhai
sebhai
10 years ago

“I signed a chastity-for-life pledge after reading about this garbage behavior”

Welcome to MGTOW,at least you didn’t turn to Elliot Rodger.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I’m sort of bored so I’ll attempt to address Bittersteel’s teal deer.

I don’t know what Paul is doing with all of the money, but I really don’t have a problem with him keeping some of it for personal use. I am more than satisfied with the website and the work that AVFM’s board and MRAs are doing in general. If people like Jezebel’s staff are allowed to write feminist articles and make salaries why isn’t Paul allowed to write articles and make money? Running a website with over 100k users is probably time consuming and costly, especially considering all of the research that most of the articles have (unlike feminist articles, AVFM seems to document everything with sources every time they make a claim). I also believe in free enterprise, so I don’t have a problem with Paul making a profit out of his work so that he can stay afloat and you know, do all of those things Jezebel writers have to do like pay rent and eat.

Nobody has a problem with a blogger using donations to help them live but he uses abusive tactics to fundraise while being dishonest about where the funds go until finally he got called out and admitted to pocketing 100% of the donations and only being interested in men’s problems if he can exploit them.

Really what this comes down to is you guys are attacking him for doing exactly the same thing that your side does. Jezebel writers have to eat. Feminist academics make salaries. Female DV shelter employees have to eat and therefore make money from the shelter. Feminist activists make films and books and make money off the sales. If you guys don’t have a problem with these guys doing this, why isn’t Paul allowed to make some money for food too?

What is this obsession with Jezebel writers? It’s not equivalent. Jezebel is owned by Gawker Media and that’s who pays the writers. Their writers are basically working for a magazine that is funded by ad revenue. They aren’t living off of reader donations.

Feminists seem to love condemning people for doing what they do themselves because they want to be a superior, elite class (not females in general, but feminists).

What prominent feminist blogger has said anything like this?

In a way, I feel even worse now for most of the men who will make contact with AVfM looking for that lifeline. Unless their story is one that has the potential for me to exploit and gain media attention to THE CAUSE, then all I will have for them is a link to this article.

Well, and perhaps this piece of advice.

If the system has ruined your life, join the club. You are now in the ranks of men you have ignored your whole life. My advice to you is simple. Take your fucking quietly and with grace. Expect the same compassion you have always extended to those men who wore the shoes you are now wearing.

If you want things to change, then stock up on Ramen, get cozy in your studio apartment and join us in the fight to fix this shit. Don’t ask us to help you, but rather give your life the only meaning it may have left, as someone ready and willing to turn your meager existence into helping others who have been similarly screwed over.

Skye
Skye
10 years ago

In addition to all the great points being made by the regulars, I like how one example of MRA activism is suing about SS. You do know this only puts them three or four decades behind the feminists, right? (Google NOW)

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

And another thing: you guys claim that MRAs never do anything and that we just whine about all of our problems. Actually, that could not be farther from the truth. First of all, right now that “whining” is drawing light on the issues.

Yes it is whining when your examples of misandry are things like “hot chicks won’t fuck me” or “a more qualified woman got a job over me.” White men are often aggrieved not because they are being marginalized but because they are losing the unearned privilege they’ve had for so long. That’s why you people are called whiners.

The mainstream media has started to admit that men have issues (which they didn’t do before) and instead of ridiculing that idea and telling us to “man up” have started attacking AVFM’s “tone” (so basically they’re saying “your argument is correct but you aren’t being very nice!”). That’s important for getting the word out. Second, this type of outreach is important for educating young men about the issues that they potentially face because nobody else tells us about them.

Complaining about how horrible women are isn’t outreach, it’s hate. You call any woman who does something you don’t like a feminist so you can claim you only hate feminists and not all women, but your bullshit is much more transparent than you think. The msm was willing to give you guys a shot at your conference and you blew it but saying misogynistic things, laughing about men being raped which is something you are supposed to be taking seriously and attacking any writer who doesn’t give fawning coverage of your poorly managed convention. If the media isn’t always sympathetic you have nobody but yourselves to blame.

I had no idea that paternity fraud was so rampant (16%-30%? Like seriously, that’s totally disgusting.

This has already been debunked. Try to keep up.

And I just love how women operate with this-first you have to meet impossible standards to met a nice one and successfully convince her to like you and then she just sleeps with an alpha and makes you pay for the child for the rest of your life. How wonderful that all of your hard work and efforts go to the benefit of everyone except yourself. I signed a chastity-for-life pledge after reading about this garbage behavior), for example, and that only certain states protect you from it. So guess what? After I finish my education, I will go live in one of those states that protects me from having some random girl that I have never met naming me as the father and then giving the judge a wrong address so that I can be hitched forever even though I’m not the father and the DNA tests say so.

This contradicts your earlier claim that you only have a problem with feminists and not “females in general.”

Thanks to AVFM I know that men can be victims of DV and rape, that many women are vindictive, and that the pay gap is about choice and not about discrimination (something that convinced me to make a better choice about my own career path and to pursue a higher paying career instead of a lower paying one).

For the eleventy billionth time feminists are not the ones denying that men can be victims of rape and DV. It’s patriarchy lovers who do that. Don’t hate feminists, hate patriarchy.

No, the pay gap is not about choice. Women are still expected to be the ones caring for the children more. This isn’t expected about men. Is continuing the species really a choice? We should have mandatory maternity and paternity leave IMO. Also, girls are still encouraged to pursue lower paying careers and boys are encouraged to pursue the higher paying careers. Jobs that are traditionally held by women pay less not because they are easier but because they are held by women. Is child care really less valuable to society than plumbing? No. They’re both valuable. Why does one pay so much more than the other? Again, not a choice.

The rest of your teal deer is too boring to bother with. The terribleness of your heroes has already been addressed on this site many times and it’s all backed by direct sources.

Kootiepatra
10 years ago

Kittehserf: Thanks for asking! Yes, I have a few comics in the very early stages of being drawn. My life has been a bit out of control lately (moved house, big changes at work, my dad got cancer, got surgery for the cancer, and is now without cancer), so I’m trying to slowly find “normal” again. 🙂 I hope to get back to a weekly posting schedule soon.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
10 years ago

Oh, bittersteel’s on this thread, too!

Second, this type of outreach is important for educating young men about the issues that they potentially face because nobody else tells us about them. I had no idea that paternity fraud was so rampant (16%-30%? Like seriously, that’s totally disgusting. And I just love how women operate with this-first you have to meet impossible standards to met a nice one and successfully convince her to like you and then she just sleeps with an alpha and makes you pay for the child for the rest of your life. How wonderful that all of your hard work and efforts go to the benefit of everyone except yourself. I signed a chastity-for-life pledge after reading about this garbage behavior), for example, and that only certain states protect you from it. So guess what? After I finish my education, I will go live in one of those states that protects me from having some random girl that I have never met naming me as the father and then giving the judge a wrong address so that I can be hitched forever even though I’m not the father and the DNA tests say so.

This is a prudent and thoughtful life plan. I approve. Now I will proceed with my own existence, where I will not be weeding my flower bed because I have a chance of being stung by pollen-seeking bees, I will not be driving a car because there’s a chance of auto crashes, and I will not be staying in my house because there is a chance that a sinkhole will open under my feet. As soon as I finish typing this, I will turn off my phone (chance of brain cancer) and go sit outside. Not under a tree, though, because it might fall on my head.

cloudiah
10 years ago

I signed a chastity-for-life pledge

And women everywhere heave a sigh of relief.

gilshalos
10 years ago

But at least we won’t go out prostrating ourselves before you and your alpha gods and we won’t expend our entire lives having our hard work taken by you for your benefit and our detriment.

From what I have read of men classed as ‘alphas’, I would not go near one with a ten foot bargepole.

gilshalos
10 years ago

Hey! Blockquote Achievement Unlocked!

Kootiepatra
10 years ago

@Auntie Alias:

What I would do is see if you can rip the audio from the video and save it as an MP3 (there are programs that do this–I will ask my brother to recommend the one he uses).

The way I transcribe is using audio in iTunes. iTunes has a “MiniPlayer” mode (in the “View” menu) that reduces it to just a small taskbar with a few basic buttons. I then open up Word in windowed mode, and keep the MiniPlayer near the edge of the window.

I hit play, click over to Word, and then leave the mouse hovering over the pause button in the MiniPlayer. I type until I start getting behind, and then all I have to do is panic-slam the left mouse button to stop the audio and get caught up.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago

@Kootiepatra

Thanks! I’m on a Mac, btw.

daintydougal
daintydougal
10 years ago

Avfm taught him that men can be victims and women are mean.
How enlightening.
I just really hope this kid manages to pull his head from his arse and sees the world for what it is. It’ll be a shock but he’ll be better for it.
Also talking about how great India is because it hasn’t been ravaged by feminism…where do you even begin? Does this mean he thinks the norm is for women to be raped to death on the bus? That things would be better if that level of toxic hostility towards women existed everywhere?
Appalling. I hope he has fun in his cave away from all these vindictive sperm stealing women and I certainly hope he doesn’t get eaten by bears.

daintydougal
daintydougal
10 years ago

*I realise India is a ginormo country and am in no way implying that the whole of India is some terrible mess of rape but when clueless poopheads bring it up all misty eyed it just bothers me, especially with whats been going on*

Kootiepatra
10 years ago

@Auntie Alias: Try here: http://www.clipconverter.cc/

fauxmy
fauxmy
10 years ago

@marine rachel who says

The care package I received from the Mammotheers (which is still serving me well – I had a nutrition bar from it for breakfast during my commute this morning) contained a stack of money.

i am so glad to hear this, marinerachel. although my contribution was limited due to my disability status, i specifically requested that it be used for nutritional snacks that would be beneficial to the situation you were experiencing.

this makes me feel good. thank you for mentioning it and you are so very welcome.

hereandreal
10 years ago

@bittersteel I don’t disagree that you and others should have the right to send money to Paul if you want to, or that he should have the right to ask for it if he wants to. That said, regardless of what it’s being used for, I think we all deserve to be told up front to whom and for what we are spending our money. If I’m sending money to an individual, I want to know whether that individual is using it for upkeep of a website, for living/personal expenses, donations to a non-profit, conference security, surplus set-asides, etc., and I deserve to be told the truth about that. That’s not just my personal feeling on the matter; if someone provides false or misleading information in order to get someone to give them money, that is called fraud. When someone does it over the internet, it’s breaking federal law.
Kinda like your much feared paternity fraud that you’re apparently accepting from dubious sources and allowing to deprive you of a healthy and fulfilling sex life and family. By the way – before you make any big moves, you might want to study some actual law, not just some provided to you secondhand, as all states allow a man to rebut alleged paternity and submit test results to support his case. Provided you haven’t acted as a father for years to a child of a woman whom you’ve never met, let alone had sex with, you can probably go on living out your vow of chastity in peace, in whichever state you like.

Nequam
Nequam
10 years ago

Oh, bittersteel, why not go the Skoptsy route and make sure you’re safe from eeeevil spermjacking bitches?

On a more sanguine note, two charities I have always been impressed with are Habitat for Humanity and Doctors Without Borders.

katz
10 years ago

And another thing: you guys claim that MRAs never do anything and that we just whine about all of our problems. Actually, that could not be farther from the truth. First of all, right now that “whining” is drawing light on the issues.

“We don’t just sit around whining! Well, actually, we do, but we’re allowed!”

katz
10 years ago

Marinerachel: Whatever charity you are thinking of going with, make sure you look it up on Charity Navigator.

hereandreal
10 years ago

Oh, and for the record, before someone starts spouting off, I’m frankly not familiar enough with this douche (Paul) and his tactics re: collecting money to know whether a fraud complaint from someone who donated (though unlikely regardless) would be appropriate. It’s absolutely relevant to the discussion, though, as some can’t seem to distinguish between various methods/reasons for requesting and/or being paid money. Not all that confusing, but hey.

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