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Paul Elam: All Your Donations Are Belong to Me

Paul Elam, in his hovel.

Heh. I’m on my annual semi-vacation this week, and was planning on keeping my postings here fairly light. But the news waits for no one. And by “news” I mean the daily parade of ridiculousness coming from the Men’s “Human Rights” camp. So here’s a quick report on the latest bit of high irony involving A Voice for Men.

Well, I was wrong. I’ve often noted that the Men’s Rights movement in general, and A Voice for Men in particular, doesn’t actually provide any real help for any real men. Sure, as far as I can tell, precisely zero of the hundreds of thousands of dollars A Voice for Men has raised from donors over the years has gone into providing actual services for men — say, funding a hotline for troubled men or some other practical program that doesn’t primarily involve yelling at women online. But never let it be said that none of this money gods to help men.

Because, it turns out, that money has been going to help men. Or at least that subset of men that consists of one Paul Elam of Houston Texas.

After being pressed for details about A Voice for Men’s finances by anonymous commenters on Reddit, a certain Twitterer named @DavidFutrelle and a journalist from MSNBC, Elam has finally fessed up and admitted that all the money donated to his website goes directly to him. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s what Elam had to say in a post from yesterday:

Every dollar donated goes right into my pocket. I spend that money on this website and on activist efforts at my own discretion, considering the opinions of the AVFM management team that volunteers to help run this place. … I depend on the site for my living, and to do as much FTSU as possible while I am at it.

In the past, of course, Elam was a bit more, well, elusive about where the money was going, talking about the costs of paying for web hosting and stock images rather than, say, the costs of paying the mortgage of one Paul Elam. Maybe “elusive” isn’t the correct word. “Deceptive” might be more like it.

You may also recall this pitch he once made for donations (I’ve put the best parts in bold):

I am tired of seeing a comparative handful of men and women cough up the lion’s share of financial assistance when most, even some who come here every day to read and cheer on FTSU, won’t cough up five fucking dollars to help us out; who are just fine as long as none of the burden, even a trivial part of it, is on them. …

[T]he longer I am at this, the less patience I have with dead weight, those who think AVFM is a fucking source of entertainment, or a life preserver for when the tables finally, inevitably turn against them.

In a way, I feel even worse now for most of the men who will make contact with AVfM looking for that lifeline. Unless their story is one that has the potential for me to exploit and gain media attention to THE CAUSE, then all I will have for them is a link to this article.

Well, and perhaps this piece of advice.

If the system has ruined your life, join the club. You are now in the ranks of men you have ignored your whole life. My advice to you is simple. Take your fucking quietly and with grace. Expect the same compassion you have always extended to those men who wore the shoes you are now wearing.

If you want things to change, then stock up on Ramen, get cozy in your studio apartment and join us in the fight to fix this shit. Don’t ask us to help you, but rather give your life the only meaning it may have left, as someone ready and willing to turn your meager existence into helping others who have been similarly screwed over.

In other words, Elam told troubled men turning to his site for help that they should stock up on Ramen noodles — and pay his bills. Oh, and on several occasions he’s boasted about taking donations from people taking the money from their unemployment checks.

As for the other people who put in so much time and energy at his site? As far as I can figure it from Elam’s evasive post yesterday, they earn nothing but a “thanks.”

At the end of each day, even with the incredible levels of help I get from people like Dean Esmay, David King, Al Martin and every one of the incredible people who work at AVFM, I am still target number one. I am a target for feminists posing as concerned MHRAs, yellow hacks like David Futrelle, and a target for many in the media who would love nothing better than to publish my personal financial information after putting their disgusting spin on it.

As you might have gathered from that quote, Elam remains indignant that anyone would even ask where the money goes.

And that goes for the money he recently raised that was supposedly earmarked to pay the security costs of AVFM’s conference. About that, he says only:

we hired four police officials (three officers and one supervisor) for coverage of the entire event and also hired a local attorney, paying his retainer in advance.  We also had to engage our regular attorney, and have not yet been billed for their services.

In effect, we spent the money raised on precisely what we said we would spend it on, and have set aside what little remained for the next conference.

Really? According to costhelper.com, off-duty police officers generally cost $40-60 an hour; this Sheriff’s department puts the costs at $27-$31 an hour for each of its officers, including administrative fees. Even assuming that AVFM paid at the top of this range — $60 an hour — it would have cost them only $7200 to pay for four officers working ten hours each of the three days of the conference.

The amount that AVFM might have paid for legal fees depends on how much their lawyers charge per hour, and how many hours they worked. Assuming each lawyer charged $200 per hour and worked thirty hours over the three days of the conference — which I highly doubt — the cost for their legal assistance would have added up to $12,000. If AVFM actually paid even half that for legal fees I will eat my cats.

Even with these extremely generous assumptions, AVFM would have paid out only a little over $19,000 for security and legal fees. AVFM raised more than $30,000 for “security.”

In the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I also ask readers for donations. But I’ve always made clear that aside from donations specifically earmarked for other things the money goes to me. (And the cats.) And I don’t demand that donors pay me $20,000 per quarter — $80,000 a year — on top of whatever donations come in between the quarterly fundraisers, not to mention special “security” fundraisers.

I’m very grateful to those who donate to me — and indeed to everyone who’s contributed time and effort and knowledge and artistic skills to help the site — but I take in only a fraction of what Elam evidently takes in. And I don’t ask for money from those who are themselves broke.

In the comments on AVFM, the regulars are of course rallying around Elam. Then again, I can’t imagine anyone critical of what he does with the money would remain unbanned there for long.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And the reason we need to bring Elam’s weight into this is ..?

Ally S
6 years ago

Yo, CVC, drop the fat-shaming. It’s real and it hurts. Please don’t do it.

pecunium
6 years ago

CVC: his “girth” is immaterial to anything.

As to those asking after children, yes we want to have some, no there are none presently pending.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“And the reason we need to bring Elam’s weight into this is ..?”

If he’s living solely on the donations people make to AVFM, then he should be accountable to how that money is spent, including his grocery choices. And he sure as hell should not be eating out at restaurants on their dime.

This is all part of what needs to come out. How and where is all that money being spent.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

We don’t know how often he eats at restaurants. What does that have to with his weight? There’s plenty of mocking material. We don’t need to fat shame.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Is this some sort of performance art designed to prove that one can be broadly supportive of leftist ideas and yet still be an awful person or what?

katz
6 years ago

Oh dear, we’ve veered into “if you get your money from source X, you can’t spend it on Y” territory. Are you also against food stamps, CVC?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

FWIW, mods, my troll senses have been tingling for a while. Could be wrong, but perhaps worth considering.

Unimaginative
6 years ago

“And the reason we need to bring Elam’s weight into this is ..?”

If he’s living solely on the donations people make to AVFM, then he should be accountable to how that money is spent, including his grocery choices. And he sure as hell should not be eating out at restaurants on their dime.

This is all part of what needs to come out. How and where is all that money being spent.

No. When you give something away, it’s not yours anymore. If you give someone clothes that you don’t wear anymore, you don’t get a say in how the new owner wears them. If you give someone a vase, you don’t get a say in what they put in it. If you give someone money, you don’t get a say in how they spend it. It’s not yours anymore.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I gave a friend some pants I didn’t want any more a few years ago. If only I’d realized that entitled me to be her personal stylist!

Unimaginative
6 years ago

Also, policing the groceries people buy so that you can judge whether they’re eating appropriately for their degree of fatness is an asshole move. And fuck you for deciding whether somebody else is ALLOWED to eat out.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Y’all rock my socks off.
🙂

TCVC,
Not cool. Don’t do the double down thing. You’ll only regret it later.

katz
6 years ago

The flip side is that if you do want your money spent on something specific, you’d better give it to an organization, not an individual.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“Oh dear, we’ve veered into “if you get your money from source X, you can’t spend it on Y”

Most certainly! He’s taking donations in the name of AVFM. There are things that he should not be spending his money on then and he knows it. That’s why he was so reluctant to answer questions about where the money goes. Finally he coughs up “directly to me and what I deem fit to spend it on.” Well, every penny should be accounted for.

“Are you also against food stamps, CVC?”

No. There’s absolutely no connection to anything I wrote and being “against food stamps” and I fail to see how you could draw a connection by any stretch of the imagination.

Au contraire, I said I would expect Elam to be on them instead of fleecing his naive readers for food (and new clothes and home accessories, etc) in the name of A Voice For Men.

Some serious fraud appears to be going down in the name of “Mens’ Rights” and the Southern Poverty Law Center should check that out, since they are about learning what creates poverty and finding solutions to it.

Under one of Molyneux’s videos a poor young man says as soon as he gets some money he’s going to donate to Molyneux!!! Molyneux has a professionally employed wife and is not hurting for cash by any stretch of the imagination. He is living a more than comfortable middle class to upper middle class lifestyle. Meanwhile this admittedly poor kid (who was also a minority) was vowing to “donate” to him once he “got settled and got a job”.

What the hell?

These guys have absolutely no gumption in asking for donations from people who are poor!

Why is the white, middle to upper-middle class husband of a professionally employed doctor even asking for donations at all? His website and youtube channel are more a benefit to him than they are to anyone else. He gets name and fame through these media.

It reminds me of this other libertarian (successful real estate investor) guy who wrote this long diatribe on his blog about how “if you are reading what I write, you should be paying me”. As if his blogs were contributing to the “quality of life” of the readers, more than they were to his own life! Funny thing is NOBODY was reading his blog. I, being one of a total of about 3 commenters, pointed this out and got deleted.

Obviously these people get something out of expressing themselves online and they reap pleasure from reading sycophantic comments so why should I or any other reader “have” to pay them?

Its one thing to ask humbly if you are not a well off career person, real estate magnate, or spouse of a doctor. But to expect, in the pompous manner these guys do, people who are in financial straights to donate to you because you are on the assumption that a shit ton of value is being added to their life from your blog or videos, is just ridiculous and arrogant beyond belief.

I think they should be paying US just to listen to their crap.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I’m pretty sure that in terms of how much donated money one could misspend food is fairly low on the list. If he was spending the money on coke binges you might almost have a point, but even then that point would still be missing the actual point by several miles.

(Still pondering the “trolling or just asshole” question.)

pecunium
6 years ago

CVC: If he’s living solely on the donations people make to AVFM, then he should be accountable to how that money is spent, including his grocery choices. And he sure as hell should not be eating out at restaurants on their dime.

Bullshit. If they choose to pay him money, it’s his. If they choose to pay him enough to dine on foie gras and truffles, that’s their fault.

Moreover, quite apart from the stupidity (and petty minded cruelty) of the idea that money paid must have strings (which is part of the problem of food stamps), unless you have donated, you don’t have a moral leg to stand on with that facile argument.

No. There’s absolutely no connection to anything I wrote and being “against food stamps” and I fail to see how you could draw a connection by any stretch of the imagination.

This is because you have the moral compass of a millstone.

Food stamps are a constrained benefit. They are means tested, and cannot be used for anything other than approved foods. They are used to impose a sense of burden and shame on people by making it impossible to eat “nice” food, nor to have more than the bare minimum they need to survive.

That you think Elam is a crook is no reason to pretend an immoral system of imposed values on donated moneys should somehow be the law of the land; that way lies your boss getting to tell you what to do with your paycheck.

You don’t like it… too bad.

You want him to not spend the money as he sees fit, convince people to stop donating.

In any case it’s none of your business what he does with it.

You will notice the complaints here haven’t been about how he spends the money, but about the justifications he gives for collecting it. That’s an important distinction. It’s the one which keeps us from falling (as you have) into the pit of hypocrisy.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
6 years ago

If Elam were found guilty of fraud and imprisoned, the guy would still be entitled to eat.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“Moreover, quite apart from the stupidity (and petty minded cruelty) of the idea that money paid must have strings (which is part of the problem of food stamps)”

– Bull. Where is the “strings” with what you call “food stamps”?

” I fail to see how you could draw a connection by any stretch of the imagination.”

“This is because you have the moral compass of a millstone.”

– Er, NO. Its because I’m on what you refer to as “food stamps”.

“Food stamps are a constrained benefit. They are means tested, and cannot be used for anything other than approved foods.”

– Bull!. What “approved” foods?

“They are used to impose a sense of burden and shame on people by making it impossible to eat “nice” food”

– More clueless b.s.

First, its called an EBT card. That is, Electronics Benefit Transfer Card. And while they cannot be used in restaurants, they can be used on any food in any grocery store that accepts them. That means Whole Foods and plenty of stores with what you call “nice food”.

“nor to have more than the bare minimum they need to survive.”

The bull just keeps on sh*tting!. Humans need very little food to actually “survive”. I’m eating quite well, and organically at that, on my EBT budget. Why, my BMI even puts me in the “over weight” category.

Survive, my ass.

Now excuse me while I go throw up a little at your pompous lecturing at me about what you call “food stamps”.

Sheesh!

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

Electronics Benefit Transfer Card

Correction: Electronic Benefits

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
6 years ago

So if it doesn’t take a lot of money to put someone in the ‘overweight’ category, why does Elam’s waistline lead you to believe that he’s spending an unconscionable amount on food?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

How about you clear off, Vegan Chartreuse Capsule. You haven’t sounded like you’re posting in good faith for a while, and now you’re trolling and abusing regulars. You’ll end up banned at this rate.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

CVC,
You’re still not addressing the fat shaming which is what people were objecting to.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The most tragicomic part of CVCs rant is the fact that in the US obesity correlates rather strongly with poverty.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“You haven’t sounded like you’re posting in good faith for a while”

Sounded to who? You can copy and paste the comments here that you think are not in good faith. I don’t know how to prove “good faith” to kittehserf, but everything I’ve posted thus far as been sincere from my side.

“and now you’re trolling and abusing regulars”

Trolling? How?

Abusing? Pecunium was the one who said of me, “This is because you have the moral compass of a millstone.”

Simply because I believe Elam should be held accountable for the donations he receives in the name of AVFM and because I could not see a connection between my statements and anything to do with what he or she calls “food stamps”.

If someone should be taken to task for “abuse” then it would be her/him.

To make a negative judgement about someone’s “moral compass” (really my moral character) because I disagree with her/him, that is really, I don’t even have a word for it. Help me out?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The words I’m hoping to hear soon are “moderation challenge”, because this is getting tiresome.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Sounded to who? You can copy and paste the comments here that you think are not in good faith. I don’t know how to prove “good faith” to kittehserf, but everything I’ve posted thus far as been sincere from my side.

I can’t remember them all but you’ve made a few comments that a lot of people felt were problematic and never addressed the criticism.

Right now it’s the comments about weight. I remember the other day you referred to anal rape as “butt rape” in a really flip manner and people objected to that because it sounded like you take anal rape lightly.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And then there was the “well my women friends don’t think pregnancy is a medical condition” splainey crap, which he also doubled down on.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

There are two moderators on this site, TCVC, and both agree with the regulars that your comments are not in good faith. You aren’t being asked to “prove” anything – you’ve already demonstrated lack of good faith or even basic netiquette, in ignoring regulars every time you’re asked to stop doing things, such as ableist remarks, fat-shaming and so on. Doubling down isn’t a demonstration of good faith.

Oh, and turning up under a new nym without saying who you were before – that’s pretty much sockpuppeting, and that’s definitely bad faith.

What do you reckon, people? David’s probably asleep, shall I just unapprove this one’s comments until he’s online again?

pecunium
6 years ago

CVC: Are SNAP Benefits constrained?

Yes.

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) Eligible Food Items

Households CAN use SNAP benefits to buy:

Foods for the household to eat, such as:
breads and cereals;
fruits and vegetables;
meats, fish and poultry; and
dairy products.
Seeds and plants which produce food for the household to eat.

In some areas, restaurants can be authorized to accept SNAP benefits from qualified homeless, elderly, or disabled people in exchange for low-cost meals.

Households CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco
Any nonfood items, such as:
pet foods
soaps, paper products
household supplies
Vitamins and medicines
Food that will be eaten in the store
Hot foods

So take your poo-flinging nonsense, and stuff it.

The bull just keeps on sh*tting!. Humans need very little food to actually “survive”. I’m eating quite well, and organically at that, on my EBT budget. Why, my BMI even puts me in the “over weight” category.

Survive, my ass.

Now excuse me while I go throw up a little at your pompous lecturing at me about what you call “food stamps”.

Ooh… rage at my pomposity. I was denied SNAP because I didn’t make enough money to qualify. If I dropped out of school I could get them, because then I could be available to work a 40 hour week. If, however, I didn’t, I couldn’t get them until I had a job which paid a guaranteed wage of 20 times the federal hourly minimum.*

In exchange for that I would be granted 270 dollars a month on which to feed myself. If I hadn’t had some means of getting the three miles, round trip to the nearest grocery, I’d have been living on what I could by at the local bodegas, where onions were a dollar a piece and meat was as exorbitant, while vegetable, not in cans, were unavailable.

But hey, if you can afford to eat “quite well” on SNAP, even to the point of doing it “organically” you are a fucking miracle worker.

Go you.

None of which makes you morally indefensible diatribe against Paul Elam, because you dislike his beliefs and his activism, any less wrong, nor repugnant.

Don’t worry, however, about my digestion, I’m used to dealing with foul people, and it’s not all that distressing (save that people will see that you claim to stand with me, and your moral failings will be attributed to me).

*and it took two trips, to two different offices to be informed of this fact, after I’d been told I otherwise qualified, This was in a “lberal” state where the hurdles are less than other places, so yes, I stand by my contention that part of the structure of SNAP is to shame, degrade, and demean those who are forced, by circumstance, to apply for them.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Wait, he admitted to sockpuppeting? Just ban him, then. David can always un-ban him later if you all talk about it and decide there’s a reason to.

pecunium
6 years ago

CVC: I’ll help you out:

To make a negative judgement about someone’s “moral compass” (really my moral character) because I disagree with her/him, that is really, I don’t even have a word for it. Help me out?

I didn’t attack your moral failing because I “disagree” with you. I attacked because I see it as a moral failing. I disagree about the merits of Mango, or cooked spinach as a food.

Things like non-consent = rape are not open to debate.

Neither is insisting that money given to Paul Elam must be spent in a way which keeps his weight at a level you think appropriate to someone who is selling his time on AVfM to the readers thereof by way of paypal donations.

That’s not a debatable claim. It’s a morally bankrupt position. If it hurts you to be called on taking such a position, you can fix that. You don’t have to change it, but so long as you say it where I can respond to it, I will.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“And then there was the “well my women friends don’t think pregnancy is a medical condition” splainey crap, which he also doubled down on.”

Not just my friends, but A LOT of women would and in fact do take offense at pregnancy being termed a medical condition. You can watch the documentary The Business of Being Born, as well as any videos by or about Ina May Gaskin. There’s a whole lot of women rejecting the “medical model” of pregnancy and childbirth.

“I can’t remember them all but you’ve made a few comments that a lot of people felt were problematic and never addressed the criticism.”

I don’t read every single comment on this blog. Not even most of them. I simply do not have the time. Moreover, not everything has to be addressed. As a commenter put above, it can “get tiring”.

I have a little extra time tonight so I can indulge myself a bit more online. But it appears that once a few commenters here feel someone is a “troll” that he or she IS one, whether he or she actually is or not. And that troll status basically amounts to holding an opinion, or stating something in a manner that a few commenters might find odd or disagreeable.

I don’t know how to address any of this or if it would even matter or even if its worth my time.

I mean, people are arguing that Elam has a “right” to spend money donated to him in the name of AVFM in any damn way he pleases. So really, I don’t know what to do with that or with the ridiculous position that I have the “moral compass of a millstone” because I do not agree that Elam has a “right” to spend money donated to AVFM (not to him personally,he is NOT saying, “hey people, I need to eat, buy clothes and stuff for my house so send me $$$”) and that I do not think the situation is in anyway comparable to food stamps (EBT people, EBT).

” I remember the other day you referred to anal rape as “butt rape” in a really flip manner and people objected to that because it sounded like you take anal rape lightly.”

Oh please. This is what Molyneux said in his video. I was talking about him and what he said. Get some perspective.

See what I mean? If I were to take time out and address this type of stuff so much back and forth on it could result in a lot of time wasted. It is tiring, like a commenter above wrote.

If I have to address every little nit picky thing in order just to occasionally comment on this site when I have some spare time, then go ahead and ban me.

Ally S
6 years ago

Oh please. This is what Molyneux said in his video. I was talking about him and what he said. Get some perspective.

Well, it wouldn’t have hurt for you to be clearer as to who you were talking about. And in any case, you had no need to use the same term Molyneux used. Bear in mind that this place is full of survivors of sexual abuse, and your intention doesn’t always matter. A good intention won’t stop a survivor from being triggered by your word choices, regardless of whether you are simply using someone else’s words. Perhaps you’re the one who needs perspective.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

How about you just make like a grownup and leave a place where you’re not welcome, hmm? Or do you prefer ignoring boundaries, O sockish one?

This place is a community. You don’t want to play by the pretty basic rules we have here, or take part in the conversation, then maybe you can find somewhere that suits you better.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Well, it wouldn’t have hurt for you to be clearer as to who you were talking about.

Which goes right back to what I said days ago, asking TCVC to blockquote or otherwise make clearer when quoting.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“Oh, and turning up under a new nym without saying who you were before – that’s pretty much sockpuppeting, and that’s definitely bad faith.”

What? Who was I before?!

“Households CAN use SNAP benefits to buy:

Foods for the household to eat, such as:
breads and cereals;
fruits and vegetables;
meats, fish and poultry; and
dairy products.
Seeds and plants which produce food for the household to eat.”

Right. That’s EVERYTHING edible in a grocery store. Except for stuff from the hot bar Like in Whole Foods they have a salad bar and a hot bar. You can buy anything from the salad/cold bar on EBT AND EAT IT IN THE STORE actually, but you cannot buy from hot bar. But I’ve gotten away with doing that as well.

Where is the problem?

EBT allows its holder to buy food to eat. There’s no restriction, “oh you can only buy this kind of cheese and not that kind” or anything like that. So where is this “anything but allowed foods” that is so constricting and confining?

pecunium
6 years ago

CVC: I’ll help you again:

If I have to address every little nit picky thing in order just to occasionally comment on this site when I have some spare time, then go ahead and ban me.

The issue hasn’t been that you’ve not answered every comment, or complaint, but that you’ve never addressed any except to say, “no, you are wrong”.

Take the issue of pregnancy being a medical condition. It is. Are there people who don’t like to look at it that way, sure. But as said, there are lots of medical conditions which are minor, and overlooked. Not all medical conditions merit intervention (I, for example, have a cold right now. I take some anti-symptomatics, drink some extra fluids and cope: in the same way a pregnant person can take pre-natals, watch their diet, and pay attention to indica of things like gestational diabetes, or over-softening of the joints, etc.).

But to tell us we are wrong to say it’s a medical condition.. is wrong. It’s fractally wrong. No one denied that some women don’t like to call it that. Some people don’t like to say voter ID laws are racist, and designed to keep, “the wrong people” from voting.

Doesn’t change the facts.

But you, when told of local mores on language, or questioned on usage; or even directly interacted with, blithely proceed as if it were your house party. not Dave’s. and as if your opinion were of equal weight to the total of everyone else.

That’s gonna get you some side-eye, and that side-eye is going to cause you to get less leeway for iffy/thoughtless statements.

And when the veer to the flat out unjustifiably wrong… the response is going to be vigorous.

That’s the bed you made, so it’s the bed you have to lie in.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Can’t we just kick him out of the bed? It really would be easier in the long run, and he’s already popped so there’s not much in the way of trollish entertainment to be had.

pecunium
6 years ago

CVC: Your Whole Foods is wrong sell you food to eat in the store. Mine won’t let you eat Salad Bar food in the store, if purchased with SNAP benefits (they also make it hard to lie about it, as they have to tax food to be eaten in, so they ask; and if you say you are taking it home, they put tape across it, so it’s obvious you are breaking the law).

You CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco
Any nonfood items, such as pet foods, soaps, paper products, diapers, and household supplies
Vitamins and medicines
Food that will be eaten in the store
Hot foods

SNAP is designed to be used for food eaten in, not “out”. unless that food was prepared in your home, to be taken elsewhere.

It’s very simple, and explained at the link provided, just as it was included in the portion I quoted.

pecunium
6 years ago

I can’t say as (for all that I am generally tolerant of irksome people, Brandon, Steele, undfreeland, etc) I would be sorry to be better strangers with CVC.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I’ve just unapproved TCVC’s comments for the time being.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

It’s nice having mods. Also, his rant about the OMG THINGS THAT HAPPEN WHEN YOU DISAGREE WITH PEOPLE ON THIS BLOG really did not sound like this was his first ride on the (cock) carousel.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“But to tell us we are wrong to say it’s a medical condition.. is wrong.”

I didn’t say it was “wrong”. I said there are plenty of people who would object to the term “medical condition” being used for pregnancy, and plenty who would take offense to that. And there are. Get over it. Move on.

” No one denied that some women don’t like to call it that. Some people don’t like to say voter ID laws are racist, and designed to keep, “the wrong people” from voting.”

Here we go again. Apples and oranges. More like apples and shrimp, just like you did with Elam living off of donations for AVFM and what you call “food stamps.” Stop. Just stop. Its easy to just stop.

“And when the veer to the flat out unjustifiably wrong”

Nothing I have said is flat out unjustifiably wrong and you have not proven that in any way. Nor am I asking you to, not because you can’t, which you can’t, but because I’m taking my own advice above and “just stopping” with you. My intuition told me not to engage with you as a commenter, but because I had some extra time tonight, I did. I see you are not engaging with me in good faith.

Also, about “They are used to impose a sense of burden and shame on people by making it impossible to eat “nice” food” LOL! I applied online and never had to see anyone face to face about it whatsoever. NO shame, no burden. And plenty of “nice food”. “Nice food” is listed on what is available to buy with EBT.

I am so sick of people misrepresenting what you call “food stamps”. And since you’re so into “local mores on language and usage” please start saying EBT instead. My god this is not the 70s where paper “stamps” were given at check-out.

If there is anything I can’t stand its people who knowingly misrepresent. That’s the issue I have with Elam collecting donations.

This is the last comment I will ever direct at you again. Ever. You can reply as you like. No problem. Just know that while it may or may not be read, it most definitely will not be replied to.

Peace.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

We’ve had a teal dear flounce. Hopefully they’ll stick to their word and not come back.

It’s nice having mods.

I AM DRUNK WITH POWER

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Can we make it so that nobody can read the teal deer, just to annoy him?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Already have. 🙂

katz
6 years ago

At the very least I think CVC’s time-out should last until zie is willing to apologize and drop the current argument.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I was about to say that he was still commenting in another thread, and then I looked at the sidebar and it was gone. Look at you, running around protecting the commentariat from death by extreme boredom.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

The actual time-out will have to wait until the Dark Lord comes online returns to the Earth. For now I’m just zapping comments as they appear.

I notice one has already appeared on another thread (not for long, muahahahaha). So much for the flounce and “I will never comment here again!!!!eleventy!!!1”

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Look at you, running around protecting the commentariat from death by extreme boredom.

::strikes heroic pose::