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Paul Elam: All Your Donations Are Belong to Me

Paul Elam, in his hovel.

Heh. I’m on my annual semi-vacation this week, and was planning on keeping my postings here fairly light. But the news waits for no one. And by “news” I mean the daily parade of ridiculousness coming from the Men’s “Human Rights” camp. So here’s a quick report on the latest bit of high irony involving A Voice for Men.

Well, I was wrong. I’ve often noted that the Men’s Rights movement in general, and A Voice for Men in particular, doesn’t actually provide any real help for any real men. Sure, as far as I can tell, precisely zero of the hundreds of thousands of dollars A Voice for Men has raised from donors over the years has gone into providing actual services for men — say, funding a hotline for troubled men or some other practical program that doesn’t primarily involve yelling at women online. But never let it be said that none of this money gods to help men.

Because, it turns out, that money has been going to help men. Or at least that subset of men that consists of one Paul Elam of Houston Texas.

After being pressed for details about A Voice for Men’s finances by anonymous commenters on Reddit, a certain Twitterer named @DavidFutrelle and a journalist from MSNBC, Elam has finally fessed up and admitted that all the money donated to his website goes directly to him. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s what Elam had to say in a post from yesterday:

Every dollar donated goes right into my pocket. I spend that money on this website and on activist efforts at my own discretion, considering the opinions of the AVFM management team that volunteers to help run this place. … I depend on the site for my living, and to do as much FTSU as possible while I am at it.

In the past, of course, Elam was a bit more, well, elusive about where the money was going, talking about the costs of paying for web hosting and stock images rather than, say, the costs of paying the mortgage of one Paul Elam. Maybe “elusive” isn’t the correct word. “Deceptive” might be more like it.

You may also recall this pitch he once made for donations (I’ve put the best parts in bold):

I am tired of seeing a comparative handful of men and women cough up the lion’s share of financial assistance when most, even some who come here every day to read and cheer on FTSU, won’t cough up five fucking dollars to help us out; who are just fine as long as none of the burden, even a trivial part of it, is on them. …

[T]he longer I am at this, the less patience I have with dead weight, those who think AVFM is a fucking source of entertainment, or a life preserver for when the tables finally, inevitably turn against them.

In a way, I feel even worse now for most of the men who will make contact with AVfM looking for that lifeline. Unless their story is one that has the potential for me to exploit and gain media attention to THE CAUSE, then all I will have for them is a link to this article.

Well, and perhaps this piece of advice.

If the system has ruined your life, join the club. You are now in the ranks of men you have ignored your whole life. My advice to you is simple. Take your fucking quietly and with grace. Expect the same compassion you have always extended to those men who wore the shoes you are now wearing.

If you want things to change, then stock up on Ramen, get cozy in your studio apartment and join us in the fight to fix this shit. Don’t ask us to help you, but rather give your life the only meaning it may have left, as someone ready and willing to turn your meager existence into helping others who have been similarly screwed over.

In other words, Elam told troubled men turning to his site for help that they should stock up on Ramen noodles — and pay his bills. Oh, and on several occasions he’s boasted about taking donations from people taking the money from their unemployment checks.

As for the other people who put in so much time and energy at his site? As far as I can figure it from Elam’s evasive post yesterday, they earn nothing but a “thanks.”

At the end of each day, even with the incredible levels of help I get from people like Dean Esmay, David King, Al Martin and every one of the incredible people who work at AVFM, I am still target number one. I am a target for feminists posing as concerned MHRAs, yellow hacks like David Futrelle, and a target for many in the media who would love nothing better than to publish my personal financial information after putting their disgusting spin on it.

As you might have gathered from that quote, Elam remains indignant that anyone would even ask where the money goes.

And that goes for the money he recently raised that was supposedly earmarked to pay the security costs of AVFM’s conference. About that, he says only:

we hired four police officials (three officers and one supervisor) for coverage of the entire event and also hired a local attorney, paying his retainer in advance.  We also had to engage our regular attorney, and have not yet been billed for their services.

In effect, we spent the money raised on precisely what we said we would spend it on, and have set aside what little remained for the next conference.

Really? According to costhelper.com, off-duty police officers generally cost $40-60 an hour; this Sheriff’s department puts the costs at $27-$31 an hour for each of its officers, including administrative fees. Even assuming that AVFM paid at the top of this range — $60 an hour — it would have cost them only $7200 to pay for four officers working ten hours each of the three days of the conference.

The amount that AVFM might have paid for legal fees depends on how much their lawyers charge per hour, and how many hours they worked. Assuming each lawyer charged $200 per hour and worked thirty hours over the three days of the conference — which I highly doubt — the cost for their legal assistance would have added up to $12,000. If AVFM actually paid even half that for legal fees I will eat my cats.

Even with these extremely generous assumptions, AVFM would have paid out only a little over $19,000 for security and legal fees. AVFM raised more than $30,000 for “security.”

In the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I also ask readers for donations. But I’ve always made clear that aside from donations specifically earmarked for other things the money goes to me. (And the cats.) And I don’t demand that donors pay me $20,000 per quarter — $80,000 a year — on top of whatever donations come in between the quarterly fundraisers, not to mention special “security” fundraisers.

I’m very grateful to those who donate to me — and indeed to everyone who’s contributed time and effort and knowledge and artistic skills to help the site — but I take in only a fraction of what Elam evidently takes in. And I don’t ask for money from those who are themselves broke.

In the comments on AVFM, the regulars are of course rallying around Elam. Then again, I can’t imagine anyone critical of what he does with the money would remain unbanned there for long.

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Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Kitteh, that second bit should be </blockquote>

Pithy Pseudonym
Pithy Pseudonym
6 years ago

Okay, Doug, as a male sexual assault victim, why should I donate to Paul versus directly donating to a sexual assault victims assistance organization?

Nitram
6 years ago

Flying mouse,
Thanks. Hugs back at you. And my family too. I’m starting to think it’s genetic.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Oh fuck, I forgot that blockquote auto italic!

Let me try that this way…

• Single charismatic leader. — charisma is arguable

– Instant friends. — sorta, the enemy of my enemy is my friend

– They hide what they teach. — eh, not before, but since Elam tried sanitizing AVfM idk

• Say they are the only true group, or the best so why go anywhere else.

• Hyped meetings, get you to meetings rather than share with you. — I think the conference fits?

• Experiential rather than logical. — *dies laughing* dear gods yes

– Asking for money for the next level. (Eh? Not CoS, but they are always after money “for the cause”)

• They do not allow their teachings or practices to be questioned. If you question, then automatically the group assumes that something is wrong with you. It can never be the case that anything is wrong with the group’s practices or teachings. Often they will try to shut you down by accusing you of having a “bad attitude”. — See above OP

• They will push you to obey by using guilt. They will demand complete “submission” to the group, its leaders and its teachings. They will do this by making you feel absolutely rotten about yourself. They will ridicule you and attack any weakness you might have (or invent weaknesses you might have if they can’t find any). Their goal is to break your will by causing you mental anguish. — this is their whole deal, taking the red pill will make you see all these horrid things and you’ll be angry, or are you some kind of mangina?

• = yes
– = maybe
Noes omitted.

Pithy Pseudonym
Pithy Pseudonym
6 years ago

Poo. My first comment and I left the wrong email address.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Thanks, Argenti! I’ve got that saved in notepad now.

piratejennie – be afraid, be very afraid.

For all you Firefox users, there’s a Text Formatting Toolbar add-on that makes life sooooo much easier. No need to write the code, just highlight your text and click the appropriate button – it works for adding links like the ones I just did here, too.

piratejennie
6 years ago

@deniseeliza

Exactly. It’s the transparency that makes the majority of the difference, but also the manner in which the request for donations is approached.

David has never harangued or shamed his participants and readers into donating and has certainly never implied that those who either choose not to or cannot donate are freeloaders who are not worthy of his time and effort, getting what they deserve when they are affected by the patriarchy or any other agency or system of belief.

I feel silly even having to write this because it seems so self evident. This blog lists a clear and cogent statement about its general intent and how the donations are spent.

It occasionally links to or asks for dedicated donations for clearly outlined specific events or causes, and in these cases offers to make public the receipts for monies spent.

AVfM does no such thing and the primary spokesperson reacts with defensive vitriol whenever questioned by even his own supporters, giving vague non-answers about knowing how best to spend donations to continue the campaign to FTSU and fund undefined activism.

This is just a one to one comparison of this single site against AVfM, but it is one that can be repeated easily with similar independent blogs, even ones that are not feminist or liberal leaning.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Nitram and flying mouse, are we related?

Seriously, that sounds eerily familiar.

piratejennie
6 years ago

@kittehs

Wellup, you created a new experience in my ability to snort stuff through my nose while laughing; I just blew a few tomato seeds onto my keyboard.

Red plum tomatoes: Taste 10, Texture 10, Aroma 10, Nostril Feel -2

cloudiah
6 years ago

Again, do you know what Paul Elam does with the money once it’s in his pocket?

No. No one does, except Paul Elam.

Why should we think he’s using it to help men, in the absence of any evidence? All existing evidence indicates he’s a complete asshat — which is to say, not someone I would trust in any way. The fact that he’s set things up so that literally no one can provide any checks and balances on him individually does not inspire any confidence.

This is not the way a legitimate organization would operate.

strivingally
6 years ago

I read plenty of blogs which do bleg posts every so often. Usually they mention the cost of maintaining the website, specifically mention what the money will be going towards, and certainly don’t abuse the readership for being insufficiently generous (in fact several of them specifically say that people in financial hardship shouldn’t feel obligated to donate).

If AVfM feels the need to do things differently, whatevs. But to be hostile to even the *idea* of asking what the money goes towards? That’s not the reaction of a benevolent human rights organisation.

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
6 years ago

I’m glad I’m not the only one getting a cult vibe from this whole mess. Studying cults and propaganda made me prone to see it everywhere, so I don’t like to say anything most of the time.

The bit about forced sacrifice for the cause was particularly gut-punching, and it’s eerie how much overlap there can be between how a cult operates and an abusive relationship.

Adam
Adam
6 years ago

It’s shit like that e-mail to Serwer that once and for all prove to me how insincere Elam is.
Someone who is trying to promote a social activism movement (read: scam/hate group) that he wants taken seriously by mainstream and affect real social change doesn’t write furious, obscenity-laden e-mails to reporters asking simple, direct questions because he recognizes how obviously counter-productive that is. Elam not only does this, he willingly publishes said email on his own site. Elam isn’t terribly bright, but he’s smart enough to know what a terrible idea that is. As I see it, the truth is that he doesn’t actually give a crap.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Wellup, you created a new experience in my ability to snort stuff through my nose while laughing; I just blew a few tomato seeds onto my keyboard.

Red plum tomatoes: Taste 10, Texture 10, Aroma 10, Nostril Feel -2

Owwwww!

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

@Adam

He also addressed his email to “Mr Sewer” [sic] as a terribly clever play on the name Serwer. Like JudgyB, Elam seems to take his social cues from volatile right wing radio and internet trolls, so hysterical denunciation, paired with insults, is his go-to response.

I can’t quite decide if this is a fake persona he assumes to play to his troglodyte fans/marks or if he really is a rage-filled abusive jerk who can’t stop himself. I actually always assumed it was the former because he seemed to be able turn it on and off, but he’s been blowing up at everyone and everything after the conference brought him a little mainstream coverage. I would enjoy this AVfM train wreck more if it didn’t involve them abusing and harassing people, because I like how they don’t do themselves any favors with their abysmal behavior.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

How are somewhat homophobic penis jokes appropriate for a domestic violence hotline? What the fuck? Sorry (no I’m not) if I can’t take that seriously.

or offer him delicious German food, like hot potato salad or the tasty german chocolate cake.

I’m about to be pedantic about a stupid thing here. German chocolate cake is apparently not actually German. It was invented by an American man whose last name was German.

The only reason I know that is because I specifically looked it up. I wondered how something called German chocolate has coconut in it since coconut is not exactly native to Germany.

Doug Spoonwood
Doug Spoonwood
6 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

@Auntie Alias

Seriously, go read Tara Palmatier’s series that I referenced above. Also, AVfM has done a series called “going mental” which you can read about here

That’s not ableist at all.

Yeah… actually it is NOT. The phrase “going mental” refers to talking about psychological issues.

@katz

Doug, honey, you realize your argument boils down to “I don’t know what they’re doing, so it’s probably something good?

No, it doesn’t boil down to that. If it did, you could demonstrate how it boiled down to exactly that.

No, I’m not. Paul Elam takes the money and *then* he decides what to do with it. Just because he first takes the money doesn’t mean that it stays in his pocket.

I’m pretty sure you’ve excluded the case of him using money that he has pocketed in ways later on to help men. My position here is not that he’s doing as much as he should, but it doesn’t really come as defensible to say that Paul Elam has done absolutely nothing for no one besides himself.

Sure, Doug. You keep telling yourself that, buddy.

I will, because there’s already enough evidence to support that proposition.

@magnesium

Oh Doug, sweety. Look, we’ve all been there, okay. You bought a product you thought wouldn’t suck, you donated to an organization that you thought was being straight with you, you lent some money to that “friend” who will totally pay you back any day now, etc. And you know, you feel bad, because you got tricked or lied to or conned, and we live in a society that likes to blame people when they get screwed over, and so to defend yourself from accusations of being a “rube”, you’ve got to defend the initial expenditure. But, the thing is, you’re not fooling anybody. We can smell the confirmation bias from here. And it’s sad, man. Real sad. It’s okay to be angry when somebody takes your money under false pretences. You didn’t know. It’s not your fault, man.

Again, AVfM has supported Vladek Filler. They have done a series on male victims of domestic violence. They DO raise awareness about issues that males do face.

@kittehsherf

Doug Spoonwood, use blockquotes. It isn’t fucking difficult.

I had no idea what you’ve talking about, until I read a comment response to what someone else asked about. So, actually, for me, it WAS difficult to use such and it WAS difficult for someone else before.

@Pithy Pseudonym

Okay, Doug, as a male sexual assault victim, why should I donate to Paul versus directly donating to a sexual assault victims assistance organization?

I didn’t say or imply that you should donate to Paul instead of a sexual assault victims assistance organization. I haven’t seen anything on AVfM which implies that *you* should do that either.

@cloudiah

Why should we think he’s using it to help men, in the absence of any evidence?

It isn’t in the absence of any evidence. Again, Vladek Filler did get help. They’ve tried to help Nicholas Alahverdian. There’s a series called “going mental” about men in abusive relationships. They had a series about men who were getting abused in relationships which did link to DAHMW. Paul Elam did organize that recent conference, and one of the speakers at that conference was Carnell Smith, a leading expert on paternity fraud. Due to the number of people attended it probably becomes more likely than not that some victim of paternity fraud got helped because of that conference. Anyone who reads AVfM thoroughly will end up thinking about male genital mutilation. It does come as likely enough that at least one non-consensual neonatal male genital mutilation might get prevented because of some father or mother reading AVfM and then seriously thinking about MGM and doing research on it. I know they once had a radio program on Vasalgel, which *might* someday become a viable means of male fertility control.

Come on… in the absence of *any* evidence? That’s almost like believing that no MRAs have tried to do anything for men when it’s the National Coalition for Men that is currently suing the Selective Service System in the U. S. for sex discrimination. When it was the National Center for Men lead by Mel Feit that supported Dubay vs. Wells case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubay_v._Wells When it was a letter by the National Coalition for Men that *prompted* they city of Glendale to institute self-defense classes for men. http://ncfm.org/2014/05/action/ncfm-sends-letter-to-dana-point-mayor-lisa-bartlett-protesting-women-only-self-defense-class/
http://ncfm.org/2014/06/action/ncfm-in-the-news-our-work-causes-the-city-of-glendale-california-to-offer-free-self-defense-class-for-men-as-well-as-women/
When it was MRAs in India who effectively protested such that the court struck down mandatory arrest policies http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/mra-protests-prompt-highest-court-of-india-to-overturn-provisions-of-vawa/

It comes as one thing to critique Paul Elam and his methods. It comes as one thing to claim that Paul Elam does more harm than good. However, it is simply not a rationally defensible position that there is no evidence that Paul Elam has used any of his resources to help men other than himself.

katz
6 years ago

No, it doesn’t boil down to that. If it did, you could demonstrate how it boiled down to exactly that.

Not in small enough words for you to understand, I’m afraid.

katz
6 years ago

I’m about to be pedantic about a stupid thing here. German chocolate cake is apparently not actually German. It was invented by an American man whose last name was German.

This random fact makes me happy.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I too would like to donate some excess cat fur. Darrow sheds enough each week in the summer to make an entire other cat.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

When it was a letter by the National Coalition for Men that *prompted* they city of Glendale to institute self-defense classes for men.

Complaining about self defense classes for women is activism now? What’s next? Getting a bar to stop ladies night?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oh, and I don’t think Doug is Woody. Woody’s posts never seem to be more than two or three sentences long.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

@ WWTH

… I was joking about the cake, but serious about the hot potato salad. It’s a family thing, since grandpa is a first generation German immigrant. He was born in NJ, but before my German great grandparents finished filing for citizenship, and he grew up speaking primarily German at home, and English at school. We joke about the cake, a lot. Especially since Grandpa loathes coconut with a passion… and melted cheese. He hates that, too.

I forgot that internet is awful about transferring tone, and that I wasn’t typing to people with the shared historical frame of reference.

I feel silly, and sad, and sorry if I legitimately confused or annoyed anyone. 🙁

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I had no idea what you’ve talking about, until I read a comment response to what someone else asked about. So, actually, for me, it WAS difficult to use such and it WAS difficult for someone else before.

Yet amazingly, non-trolls manage to ask how it’s done, rather than whine about it.

You’ve also failed basic idiom: “going mental” is slang and it is indeed ableist.

You really want to go on moderation, troll? Just keep pushing your luck.

I too would like to donate some excess cat fur. Darrow sheds enough each week in the summer to make an entire other cat.

Huzzah! The WHTM Fur Fund grows apace! Soon there will be enough for self-generating cats to take over the internets.

Oh, wait …

Ally S
6 years ago

Yeah… actually it is NOT. The phrase “going mental” refers to talking about psychological issues.

What are you talking about? I hear people say that all the time about mentally ill people. I’ve even heard mentally ill people themselves say things like “I’m going mental today”.

Ally S
6 years ago

And yes, you can look it up in a dictionary to confirm what I’m saying. “Mental” is often used as a disablist slur.

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

Plus Dr Tara Palmatier, aka A Shrink for Men, is an effing nightmare. Here’s her word vomit defense of Elam’s shit fit over the questions about AVfM’s finances. There are a lot of things wrong with this, but I’m just going to point out how intellectually dishonest it is to pretend her political attack on women and Elam’s critics is based on some sort of actual psychological diagnosis. The raging over VAWA isn’t a good look either, but it’s not surprising because the good doctor said many awful things at the convention. (I think she was the one with the underage Miley selfie.)

Dr_Tara_J_Palmatier
This reminds me of a typical divorce scenario with a high-conflict, narcissistic/borderline/sociopathic ex-wife. They demand all financial records and disclose none.

When VAWA was up for renewal, one of the issues was the lack of transparency and accountability of how money (state, federal and private donations) is spent in the multi-billion dollar domestic violence industry. If memory serves, there has yet to be a proper accounting there. Why isn’t the press asking where all THAT money goes, when feminists still claim violence against women is an ever-growing problem (even though statistics show that violence against women has been on the decline since the 1970s while DV against men has been increasing steadily – Murray Straus et al)?

When I spoke to press at the conference, I did my best to flip their questions back at them.

Press: What about the violent rhetoric?

Me: What about it? If violent rhetoric is posted on AVFM or S4M, the individual is called out and banned. What about the violent rhetoric against men and boys posted by self-identified feminists on Jezebel, Twitter, Facebook, HuffPo, etc., etc.,? #KillAllMen? Why is that okay?

Crickets.

Part of my tax money funds VAWA and other female directed initiatives. Money that I have to pay and have no say in how it is spent. Frankly, I’m more interested in how THAT money is being spent than voluntary private donations to a website that operates on a shoestring budget to support causes I believe in.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Woody? Sir?

Where IS that guy?

katz
6 years ago

Hey, who wants to check out today’s installment of “Reformed Christians’ creepy gender ideas?” TW: Abuse apologia

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I feel silly, and sad, and sorry if I legitimately confused or annoyed anyone.

Don’t feel bad! As you said, internet, tone, blah blah blah. I just thought it was a fun bit of trivia that German chocolate cake is American. Along the lines of French fries not really being French.

katz
6 years ago

They demand all financial records and disclose none.

That is…literally exactly what Paul Elam is doing.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

When did feminists claim violence against women is an ever growing problem? I’ve never seen anyone claim that. I’ve only ever heard feminists say domestic violence is still a problem. Which is true!

I’m sure Palmatier provided evidence for that claim right? s/

In fact, domestic violence decreased dramatically in the US after the implantation of the VAWA. Could it be that the MRM hates the programs because they’ve worked?

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Speaking of donations, if I may have the floor for a second:

The care package I received from the Mammotheers (which is still serving me well – I had a nutrition bar from it for breakfast during my commute this morning) contained a stack of money. That was excessive. Thank you though.

The residual effect of being shown that sort of kindness has given me such strength. Trite as they are, the expressions “touched” and “moved” have never been so apt in my experience. I want to pay it forward. I’d like to donate the money from the care package on behalf of the Mamotheers.

If it’s on the Mammotheers’ behalf, it’s got to go to somewhere worthy, somewhere we can be proud to contribute to. Can we decide together what to donate this money to? Any and all ideas are welcome.

Please don’t let me derail this discussion though. I’m sure enough of us have one another’s email addresses that we can start a behind-the-scenes chat anyone interested can be brought into.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“leading expert on paternity fraud”

Yeah? I’ve got a bridge I’ve been trying to sell, you interested?

damselindetech
6 years ago

@marinerachel

Paul Elam?

/ducksflyingproduce

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

To state the obvious answer, for those of us in the US anyways — planned parenthood?

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

It should probably go to Paul Elam.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Or the SPLC.

Or maybe some sort of animal rescue?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Not PETA though!

katz
6 years ago

Marinerachel: What cause is close to your heart?

girlscientist
girlscientist
6 years ago

Ugh, Tara Palmatier. I read a few articles on her website and listened to her podcast once. She’s the most unprofessional therapist I’ve ever come across: she seemed way more interested in buddying up to the men who were calling her than helping them. I got the impression that her dream was to go barhopping with them and to be regarded as “one of the guys.” She kept using insults to refer to the callers’ partners. I know enough about domestic violence to know that, when you’re trying to help a victim, it’s something you should never do.
Seriously, any money thrown Palmatier’s way goes to feeding her fantasies, not to helping male domestic violence victims.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@Doug:

one of the speakers at that conference was Carnell Smith, a leading expert on paternity fraud.

You mean a leading activist. I tried to find some accurate stats on “paternity fraud”.
****important disclaimer**** if a female has been sexually active with a couple of males around the estimated time of conception then she may simply have been mistaken in her identification of the father. There is no malice, whereas the term “paternity fraud” – because it contains the word “fraud” suggests purposeful malice on the part of the female.

I found a Wikipedia page that provides some stats on population rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_fraud and notice how many are small. Although the absolute numbers of fathers affected are large, we’re not talking widescale duping of males by calculating females.

This seems to be the source for the stats bandied by MRAs: http://www.australianpaternityfraud.org/pdf/American_Blood_Banks_study_2001.pdf To save you time, p. 2 of this report states “The median exclusion rate is 29.25% and the
mode is 27.87% with a range of 11.03 – 40.86%.” However, the report is “Prepared by the Parentage Testing Program Unit” which seems to have more recently changed its name to “Relationship Testing Program Unit”.

Some key points about the statistic:
The test statistics include non-paternity cases
“Many of the laboratories report testing a broad range of cases, including relationship tests for routine paternity testing, immigration, prenatal evaluations, and post-mortem evaluations. Almost all of the laboratories reporting performed immigration testing and
reconstruction (family study) cases.” (refer Preface, p.1)

The samples were not randomly selected from the population

Even if the cases only related to paternity queries, these are a biased subset of all births. The reason a person queries paternity is because they are trying to establish whether a particular male is the father. The results would still not be generalizable to all births.

WTF is wrong with MRAs and fucking basic statistics? Fuck.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Oppps, that blockquote should be a bold.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

pallygirl, I’m afraid that the concept of a simple random sample eludes almost the lot of them.

Sadness.

🙁

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Some of my thoughts were Red Cross, Nature Conservancy of Canada, SPCA. The most niche one that came to mind was Marine Mammal Rescue centre here in Vancouver. There are so many great foundations pertaining to disease research and enhancement in care too. Man, this is tough.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@contrapangloss: concepts such as ethics and evidence elude them too.

@marinerachel: do you feel particularly strongly or have a special affinity to any of the ones you mention?

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Marinerachel?

I’m fine with anything, really. Well, I guess I humbly request non-PETA and non-AVFM options, since I don’t really trust either of those two.

One’s all: “We’re going to love and care for all the critters. Never mind that we weren’t actually allowed to hold animals if people surrendered them to us, so we really just euthanized the lot.”

The other’s all: “Yes, we’re helping men! See us angrily hitting our fingers against keyboards!”

They are saddening and awful.

Do you happen to know of any good crisis call lines, or centers, nearby? They might appreciate it!

Or any good local shelters (people, or critters)?

Or any youth programs, that do good things?

Or any poor inventors, trying to get funds to make cool things?

Or you could drop off a bunch of cookies (with ingredient labels, so allergic folks can be safe) at a local job center, or unemployment office, or something…

I dunno.

Do you have any pet issues that you’ve always wanted to support, but didn’t have the change for? Or, do you know anyone else who needs a bit of love and support?

Your call! Glad the package helped, for sure! 🙂

contrapangloss
6 years ago

When in doubt, and when I have too many good options to choose from, I default to a random number or list generator. There’s a decent one here: https://www.random.org/lists/

Leaving things up to the stochastic hands of fate may not rock your boat, though.

House Mouse Queen
6 years ago

Hello Mammothers! So the new schtick, arranged and created by Angry Harry, is to put a highly visible link on the front page of AVFM titled ‘Are MRA”s Misogynists?’ The link takes them to the best 5 con speakers videos.

I say we do another collab, pool our resources and assign people to transcribing the speakers. I’ve done some of Farrell’s already. Now there should be a central repository for JUST the conference. That way we have a link, we all know it, we don’t have to hunt for a post on each speaker. We could just open a wordpress with a good title and go to town.

I know we will still do individual stuff on the speakers but a central location just for this purpose is warranted. Plus, many people can submit and give things about each speaker. Crowdsourcing this would take pressure down to a minimum and less engagement with MRA drivel.

??

House Mouse Queen
6 years ago

Oops, I’m tired as hell. I also wanted to say that Harry’s little trick is for MRA’s to invade comment sections, esp. the ones where they’re mentioned and post the link as a way to counter the fact they are misogynists. MRSydney has a half hearted attempt at this already but will all of us? We can do a superb job of countering so that once they pull out the copy/pasta, we have a link too.