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$MONEY$ a voice for men lying liars MRA paul elam

Paul Elam: All Your Donations Are Belong to Me

Paul Elam, in his hovel.

Heh. I’m on my annual semi-vacation this week, and was planning on keeping my postings here fairly light. But the news waits for no one. And by “news” I mean the daily parade of ridiculousness coming from the Men’s “Human Rights” camp. So here’s a quick report on the latest bit of high irony involving A Voice for Men.

Well, I was wrong. I’ve often noted that the Men’s Rights movement in general, and A Voice for Men in particular, doesn’t actually provide any real help for any real men. Sure, as far as I can tell, precisely zero of the hundreds of thousands of dollars A Voice for Men has raised from donors over the years has gone into providing actual services for men — say, funding a hotline for troubled men or some other practical program that doesn’t primarily involve yelling at women online. But never let it be said that none of this money gods to help men.

Because, it turns out, that money has been going to help men. Or at least that subset of men that consists of one Paul Elam of Houston Texas.

After being pressed for details about A Voice for Men’s finances by anonymous commenters on Reddit, a certain Twitterer named @DavidFutrelle and a journalist from MSNBC, Elam has finally fessed up and admitted that all the money donated to his website goes directly to him. But don’t take my word for it. Here’s what Elam had to say in a post from yesterday:

Every dollar donated goes right into my pocket. I spend that money on this website and on activist efforts at my own discretion, considering the opinions of the AVFM management team that volunteers to help run this place. … I depend on the site for my living, and to do as much FTSU as possible while I am at it.

In the past, of course, Elam was a bit more, well, elusive about where the money was going, talking about the costs of paying for web hosting and stock images rather than, say, the costs of paying the mortgage of one Paul Elam. Maybe “elusive” isn’t the correct word. “Deceptive” might be more like it.

You may also recall this pitch he once made for donations (I’ve put the best parts in bold):

I am tired of seeing a comparative handful of men and women cough up the lion’s share of financial assistance when most, even some who come here every day to read and cheer on FTSU, won’t cough up five fucking dollars to help us out; who are just fine as long as none of the burden, even a trivial part of it, is on them. …

[T]he longer I am at this, the less patience I have with dead weight, those who think AVFM is a fucking source of entertainment, or a life preserver for when the tables finally, inevitably turn against them.

In a way, I feel even worse now for most of the men who will make contact with AVfM looking for that lifeline. Unless their story is one that has the potential for me to exploit and gain media attention to THE CAUSE, then all I will have for them is a link to this article.

Well, and perhaps this piece of advice.

If the system has ruined your life, join the club. You are now in the ranks of men you have ignored your whole life. My advice to you is simple. Take your fucking quietly and with grace. Expect the same compassion you have always extended to those men who wore the shoes you are now wearing.

If you want things to change, then stock up on Ramen, get cozy in your studio apartment and join us in the fight to fix this shit. Don’t ask us to help you, but rather give your life the only meaning it may have left, as someone ready and willing to turn your meager existence into helping others who have been similarly screwed over.

In other words, Elam told troubled men turning to his site for help that they should stock up on Ramen noodles — and pay his bills. Oh, and on several occasions he’s boasted about taking donations from people taking the money from their unemployment checks.

As for the other people who put in so much time and energy at his site? As far as I can figure it from Elam’s evasive post yesterday, they earn nothing but a “thanks.”

At the end of each day, even with the incredible levels of help I get from people like Dean Esmay, David King, Al Martin and every one of the incredible people who work at AVFM, I am still target number one. I am a target for feminists posing as concerned MHRAs, yellow hacks like David Futrelle, and a target for many in the media who would love nothing better than to publish my personal financial information after putting their disgusting spin on it.

As you might have gathered from that quote, Elam remains indignant that anyone would even ask where the money goes.

And that goes for the money he recently raised that was supposedly earmarked to pay the security costs of AVFM’s conference. About that, he says only:

we hired four police officials (three officers and one supervisor) for coverage of the entire event and also hired a local attorney, paying his retainer in advance.  We also had to engage our regular attorney, and have not yet been billed for their services.

In effect, we spent the money raised on precisely what we said we would spend it on, and have set aside what little remained for the next conference.

Really? According to costhelper.com, off-duty police officers generally cost $40-60 an hour; this Sheriff’s department puts the costs at $27-$31 an hour for each of its officers, including administrative fees. Even assuming that AVFM paid at the top of this range — $60 an hour — it would have cost them only $7200 to pay for four officers working ten hours each of the three days of the conference.

The amount that AVFM might have paid for legal fees depends on how much their lawyers charge per hour, and how many hours they worked. Assuming each lawyer charged $200 per hour and worked thirty hours over the three days of the conference — which I highly doubt — the cost for their legal assistance would have added up to $12,000. If AVFM actually paid even half that for legal fees I will eat my cats.

Even with these extremely generous assumptions, AVFM would have paid out only a little over $19,000 for security and legal fees. AVFM raised more than $30,000 for “security.”

In the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I also ask readers for donations. But I’ve always made clear that aside from donations specifically earmarked for other things the money goes to me. (And the cats.) And I don’t demand that donors pay me $20,000 per quarter — $80,000 a year — on top of whatever donations come in between the quarterly fundraisers, not to mention special “security” fundraisers.

I’m very grateful to those who donate to me — and indeed to everyone who’s contributed time and effort and knowledge and artistic skills to help the site — but I take in only a fraction of what Elam evidently takes in. And I don’t ask for money from those who are themselves broke.

In the comments on AVFM, the regulars are of course rallying around Elam. Then again, I can’t imagine anyone critical of what he does with the money would remain unbanned there for long.

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weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Sounded to who? You can copy and paste the comments here that you think are not in good faith. I don’t know how to prove “good faith” to kittehserf, but everything I’ve posted thus far as been sincere from my side.

I can’t remember them all but you’ve made a few comments that a lot of people felt were problematic and never addressed the criticism.

Right now it’s the comments about weight. I remember the other day you referred to anal rape as “butt rape” in a really flip manner and people objected to that because it sounded like you take anal rape lightly.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

And then there was the “well my women friends don’t think pregnancy is a medical condition” splainey crap, which he also doubled down on.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

There are two moderators on this site, TCVC, and both agree with the regulars that your comments are not in good faith. You aren’t being asked to “prove” anything – you’ve already demonstrated lack of good faith or even basic netiquette, in ignoring regulars every time you’re asked to stop doing things, such as ableist remarks, fat-shaming and so on. Doubling down isn’t a demonstration of good faith.

Oh, and turning up under a new nym without saying who you were before – that’s pretty much sockpuppeting, and that’s definitely bad faith.

What do you reckon, people? David’s probably asleep, shall I just unapprove this one’s comments until he’s online again?

pecunium
10 years ago

CVC: Are SNAP Benefits constrained?

Yes.

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) Eligible Food Items

Households CAN use SNAP benefits to buy:

Foods for the household to eat, such as:
breads and cereals;
fruits and vegetables;
meats, fish and poultry; and
dairy products.
Seeds and plants which produce food for the household to eat.

In some areas, restaurants can be authorized to accept SNAP benefits from qualified homeless, elderly, or disabled people in exchange for low-cost meals.

Households CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco
Any nonfood items, such as:
pet foods
soaps, paper products
household supplies
Vitamins and medicines
Food that will be eaten in the store
Hot foods

So take your poo-flinging nonsense, and stuff it.

The bull just keeps on sh*tting!. Humans need very little food to actually “survive”. I’m eating quite well, and organically at that, on my EBT budget. Why, my BMI even puts me in the “over weight” category.

Survive, my ass.

Now excuse me while I go throw up a little at your pompous lecturing at me about what you call “food stamps”.

Ooh… rage at my pomposity. I was denied SNAP because I didn’t make enough money to qualify. If I dropped out of school I could get them, because then I could be available to work a 40 hour week. If, however, I didn’t, I couldn’t get them until I had a job which paid a guaranteed wage of 20 times the federal hourly minimum.*

In exchange for that I would be granted 270 dollars a month on which to feed myself. If I hadn’t had some means of getting the three miles, round trip to the nearest grocery, I’d have been living on what I could by at the local bodegas, where onions were a dollar a piece and meat was as exorbitant, while vegetable, not in cans, were unavailable.

But hey, if you can afford to eat “quite well” on SNAP, even to the point of doing it “organically” you are a fucking miracle worker.

Go you.

None of which makes you morally indefensible diatribe against Paul Elam, because you dislike his beliefs and his activism, any less wrong, nor repugnant.

Don’t worry, however, about my digestion, I’m used to dealing with foul people, and it’s not all that distressing (save that people will see that you claim to stand with me, and your moral failings will be attributed to me).

*and it took two trips, to two different offices to be informed of this fact, after I’d been told I otherwise qualified, This was in a “lberal” state where the hurdles are less than other places, so yes, I stand by my contention that part of the structure of SNAP is to shame, degrade, and demean those who are forced, by circumstance, to apply for them.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Wait, he admitted to sockpuppeting? Just ban him, then. David can always un-ban him later if you all talk about it and decide there’s a reason to.

pecunium
10 years ago

CVC: I’ll help you out:

To make a negative judgement about someone’s “moral compass” (really my moral character) because I disagree with her/him, that is really, I don’t even have a word for it. Help me out?

I didn’t attack your moral failing because I “disagree” with you. I attacked because I see it as a moral failing. I disagree about the merits of Mango, or cooked spinach as a food.

Things like non-consent = rape are not open to debate.

Neither is insisting that money given to Paul Elam must be spent in a way which keeps his weight at a level you think appropriate to someone who is selling his time on AVfM to the readers thereof by way of paypal donations.

That’s not a debatable claim. It’s a morally bankrupt position. If it hurts you to be called on taking such a position, you can fix that. You don’t have to change it, but so long as you say it where I can respond to it, I will.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
10 years ago

“And then there was the “well my women friends don’t think pregnancy is a medical condition” splainey crap, which he also doubled down on.”

Not just my friends, but A LOT of women would and in fact do take offense at pregnancy being termed a medical condition. You can watch the documentary The Business of Being Born, as well as any videos by or about Ina May Gaskin. There’s a whole lot of women rejecting the “medical model” of pregnancy and childbirth.

“I can’t remember them all but you’ve made a few comments that a lot of people felt were problematic and never addressed the criticism.”

I don’t read every single comment on this blog. Not even most of them. I simply do not have the time. Moreover, not everything has to be addressed. As a commenter put above, it can “get tiring”.

I have a little extra time tonight so I can indulge myself a bit more online. But it appears that once a few commenters here feel someone is a “troll” that he or she IS one, whether he or she actually is or not. And that troll status basically amounts to holding an opinion, or stating something in a manner that a few commenters might find odd or disagreeable.

I don’t know how to address any of this or if it would even matter or even if its worth my time.

I mean, people are arguing that Elam has a “right” to spend money donated to him in the name of AVFM in any damn way he pleases. So really, I don’t know what to do with that or with the ridiculous position that I have the “moral compass of a millstone” because I do not agree that Elam has a “right” to spend money donated to AVFM (not to him personally,he is NOT saying, “hey people, I need to eat, buy clothes and stuff for my house so send me $$$”) and that I do not think the situation is in anyway comparable to food stamps (EBT people, EBT).

” I remember the other day you referred to anal rape as “butt rape” in a really flip manner and people objected to that because it sounded like you take anal rape lightly.”

Oh please. This is what Molyneux said in his video. I was talking about him and what he said. Get some perspective.

See what I mean? If I were to take time out and address this type of stuff so much back and forth on it could result in a lot of time wasted. It is tiring, like a commenter above wrote.

If I have to address every little nit picky thing in order just to occasionally comment on this site when I have some spare time, then go ahead and ban me.

Ally S
10 years ago

Oh please. This is what Molyneux said in his video. I was talking about him and what he said. Get some perspective.

Well, it wouldn’t have hurt for you to be clearer as to who you were talking about. And in any case, you had no need to use the same term Molyneux used. Bear in mind that this place is full of survivors of sexual abuse, and your intention doesn’t always matter. A good intention won’t stop a survivor from being triggered by your word choices, regardless of whether you are simply using someone else’s words. Perhaps you’re the one who needs perspective.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

How about you just make like a grownup and leave a place where you’re not welcome, hmm? Or do you prefer ignoring boundaries, O sockish one?

This place is a community. You don’t want to play by the pretty basic rules we have here, or take part in the conversation, then maybe you can find somewhere that suits you better.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Well, it wouldn’t have hurt for you to be clearer as to who you were talking about.

Which goes right back to what I said days ago, asking TCVC to blockquote or otherwise make clearer when quoting.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
10 years ago

“Oh, and turning up under a new nym without saying who you were before – that’s pretty much sockpuppeting, and that’s definitely bad faith.”

What? Who was I before?!

“Households CAN use SNAP benefits to buy:

Foods for the household to eat, such as:
breads and cereals;
fruits and vegetables;
meats, fish and poultry; and
dairy products.
Seeds and plants which produce food for the household to eat.”

Right. That’s EVERYTHING edible in a grocery store. Except for stuff from the hot bar Like in Whole Foods they have a salad bar and a hot bar. You can buy anything from the salad/cold bar on EBT AND EAT IT IN THE STORE actually, but you cannot buy from hot bar. But I’ve gotten away with doing that as well.

Where is the problem?

EBT allows its holder to buy food to eat. There’s no restriction, “oh you can only buy this kind of cheese and not that kind” or anything like that. So where is this “anything but allowed foods” that is so constricting and confining?

pecunium
10 years ago

CVC: I’ll help you again:

If I have to address every little nit picky thing in order just to occasionally comment on this site when I have some spare time, then go ahead and ban me.

The issue hasn’t been that you’ve not answered every comment, or complaint, but that you’ve never addressed any except to say, “no, you are wrong”.

Take the issue of pregnancy being a medical condition. It is. Are there people who don’t like to look at it that way, sure. But as said, there are lots of medical conditions which are minor, and overlooked. Not all medical conditions merit intervention (I, for example, have a cold right now. I take some anti-symptomatics, drink some extra fluids and cope: in the same way a pregnant person can take pre-natals, watch their diet, and pay attention to indica of things like gestational diabetes, or over-softening of the joints, etc.).

But to tell us we are wrong to say it’s a medical condition.. is wrong. It’s fractally wrong. No one denied that some women don’t like to call it that. Some people don’t like to say voter ID laws are racist, and designed to keep, “the wrong people” from voting.

Doesn’t change the facts.

But you, when told of local mores on language, or questioned on usage; or even directly interacted with, blithely proceed as if it were your house party. not Dave’s. and as if your opinion were of equal weight to the total of everyone else.

That’s gonna get you some side-eye, and that side-eye is going to cause you to get less leeway for iffy/thoughtless statements.

And when the veer to the flat out unjustifiably wrong… the response is going to be vigorous.

That’s the bed you made, so it’s the bed you have to lie in.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Can’t we just kick him out of the bed? It really would be easier in the long run, and he’s already popped so there’s not much in the way of trollish entertainment to be had.

pecunium
10 years ago

CVC: Your Whole Foods is wrong sell you food to eat in the store. Mine won’t let you eat Salad Bar food in the store, if purchased with SNAP benefits (they also make it hard to lie about it, as they have to tax food to be eaten in, so they ask; and if you say you are taking it home, they put tape across it, so it’s obvious you are breaking the law).

You CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco
Any nonfood items, such as pet foods, soaps, paper products, diapers, and household supplies
Vitamins and medicines
Food that will be eaten in the store
Hot foods

SNAP is designed to be used for food eaten in, not “out”. unless that food was prepared in your home, to be taken elsewhere.

It’s very simple, and explained at the link provided, just as it was included in the portion I quoted.

pecunium
10 years ago

I can’t say as (for all that I am generally tolerant of irksome people, Brandon, Steele, undfreeland, etc) I would be sorry to be better strangers with CVC.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

I’ve just unapproved TCVC’s comments for the time being.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

It’s nice having mods. Also, his rant about the OMG THINGS THAT HAPPEN WHEN YOU DISAGREE WITH PEOPLE ON THIS BLOG really did not sound like this was his first ride on the (cock) carousel.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
10 years ago

“But to tell us we are wrong to say it’s a medical condition.. is wrong.”

I didn’t say it was “wrong”. I said there are plenty of people who would object to the term “medical condition” being used for pregnancy, and plenty who would take offense to that. And there are. Get over it. Move on.

” No one denied that some women don’t like to call it that. Some people don’t like to say voter ID laws are racist, and designed to keep, “the wrong people” from voting.”

Here we go again. Apples and oranges. More like apples and shrimp, just like you did with Elam living off of donations for AVFM and what you call “food stamps.” Stop. Just stop. Its easy to just stop.

“And when the veer to the flat out unjustifiably wrong”

Nothing I have said is flat out unjustifiably wrong and you have not proven that in any way. Nor am I asking you to, not because you can’t, which you can’t, but because I’m taking my own advice above and “just stopping” with you. My intuition told me not to engage with you as a commenter, but because I had some extra time tonight, I did. I see you are not engaging with me in good faith.

Also, about “They are used to impose a sense of burden and shame on people by making it impossible to eat “nice” food” LOL! I applied online and never had to see anyone face to face about it whatsoever. NO shame, no burden. And plenty of “nice food”. “Nice food” is listed on what is available to buy with EBT.

I am so sick of people misrepresenting what you call “food stamps”. And since you’re so into “local mores on language and usage” please start saying EBT instead. My god this is not the 70s where paper “stamps” were given at check-out.

If there is anything I can’t stand its people who knowingly misrepresent. That’s the issue I have with Elam collecting donations.

This is the last comment I will ever direct at you again. Ever. You can reply as you like. No problem. Just know that while it may or may not be read, it most definitely will not be replied to.

Peace.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

We’ve had a teal dear flounce. Hopefully they’ll stick to their word and not come back.

It’s nice having mods.

I AM DRUNK WITH POWER

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Can we make it so that nobody can read the teal deer, just to annoy him?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Already have. 🙂

katz
10 years ago

At the very least I think CVC’s time-out should last until zie is willing to apologize and drop the current argument.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I was about to say that he was still commenting in another thread, and then I looked at the sidebar and it was gone. Look at you, running around protecting the commentariat from death by extreme boredom.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

The actual time-out will have to wait until the Dark Lord comes online returns to the Earth. For now I’m just zapping comments as they appear.

I notice one has already appeared on another thread (not for long, muahahahaha). So much for the flounce and “I will never comment here again!!!!eleventy!!!1”

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
10 years ago

Look at you, running around protecting the commentariat from death by extreme boredom.

::strikes heroic pose::

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