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a voice for men a woman is always to blame antifeminism bad boys beta males crackpottery evil single moms grandiosity mansplaining men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA Stefan Molyneux

MRA "philosopher" Stefan Molyneux: "If you don't have a husband … to keep the child is abusive."

Misogyny Theater takes another look at the charming philosopher-king-asshole Stefan Molyneux, who seems to be carving out quite a spot for himself in the world of the lady-haters.

In this episode, some audio excerpts from Stefan Molyneux’s frighteningly well-received talk ostensibly on circumcision at A Voice for Men’s June 2014 conference, as presented in his video “Shocking Misogynist Attacks Feminism, Defends Rape Culture.” Despite the ironic title, this is pretty much an accurate description of his talk, even a bit of an understatement.

The title of my video is a shortened version of something he says in his talk (and in my video). The full quote: “If you don’t have a husband, if you chose the wrong guy, to keep the child is abusive, almost always.”

That’s right: according to Stefan M., being a single mother is, in itself, abusive.

The audio excerpts are drawn from an hour-long talk, so naturally I did some editing. In the interests of transparency, I marked each edit with a little snipping sound.

If you just can’t get enough of this guy, see my previous Molyneux video for more exciting women-blaming.

Scissors sounds and weird background noises courtesy of FreeSFX.

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Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
6 years ago

Also, one of these days I’d really like to see someone go through the history of the use of the term “red pill” in misogynist/right wing Internet circles. I suspect, but cannot prove, that Molyneux’s adoption of the “red pill” metaphor to describe his own “philosophy” starting in 2006-2007 was influential on the many varieties of misogynistic libertarian types who now describe themselves as popping red pills like they’re candy.

takshak
takshak
6 years ago

Meanwhile all feminists are ugly, short-haired, masculine looking she-men who are so unattractive they had to turn to feminism to wile away their extra time,

for the record, I have long hair.

Ally S
6 years ago

Also, Elam is a hardcore libertarian in that thread. He can’t stop saying “SHUT UP IT’S MY PROPERTY SO I DON’T HAVE TO TELL YOU ANYTHING!!! RASPBERRY!!!”

kamilla1960
kamilla1960
6 years ago

Yes, Ladyunicorn, you are correct. The name of Freud has been misused for decades after his death, when he could no longer do anything about it. He did in fact save countless women from the common fate, during his lifetime, of being tossed into the loony bin by their families. He was certainly subject to the limitations of his own time, traditional ways of thinking that were hard to break out of, general zeitgeist of the era. It was after WW11, during the campaign to put women back in the home where they ‘belonged’, that his ideas and words were abused, in order to make female rebellion against patriarchal attitudes into a kind of pathology that needed to be cured.

kamilla1960
kamilla1960
6 years ago

Alice Miller is one of the authors who is genuinely helpful for those who have suffered an abusive upbringing, and wish to make sense of it and bring healing into their lives. Molyneux has appropriated her insights and twisted them to use for his own hateful purposes.

pecunium
6 years ago

It’s interesting looking at the comments: Elam is strongly implying he gets a fair bit of money form AVfM: At a guess that’s why he’s opposed to transparency.

Absolutely correct. Many people give regular monthly donations to AVFM. Dozens of other contribute heavily at the AVFM fundraisers. The donations range from $1.00 to several thousand dollars.

ladyrainicorn517
ladyrainicorn517
6 years ago

@kamilla1960

Exactly. He had his faults (like repudiating his research that found the majority of hysteria patients had been raped), but expecting all his ideas to transcend time is unreasonable. It’s a bit like blaming Darwin for Social Darwinism. Or for contemporary Evolutionary Psychology. There’s only so much you can do to quell the tide of bigots when you’re dead.

pecunium
6 years ago

Wow… I can’t tell if Elam is taking lessons from JB, or Tom Martin, but he was stupidly rude to Adam Serwer of MSNBC

http://i1.wp.com/www.avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/07/sewer4.jpg

Ally S
6 years ago

“Whores”? But wait, I thought that Elam never uses slurs!!!

leftwingfox
6 years ago

Tulgey Logger: Oh damn… I didn’t connect his name to that whole DeFOOing business. I remember that being covered here in the past. Very nasty abuse strategy of isolating his listeners from their families.

pecunium
6 years ago

He also made what I can only assume is an intentional typo, calling the reporter, “Mr. Sewer”.

Since Serwer grew up in the states, I’m sure that’s not a new insult; which makes it pointlessly childish. Either Elam didn’t think it would be old hat, or his anger made him not care.

He really doesn’t like being questioned/challenged.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Huh.

So calling people “wh*res” really is their PR strategy.

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

My fiancé, upon listening to this:

V: Now this is satire, right?
Me: Nope. Nope, that one is for real.
V: I just assumed, because it sounded so rediculous.

Yes it does.

Medusa Jordan
6 years ago

I have just found this blog and am thoroughly enjoying it.

Medusa Jordan
6 years ago

Posted comment too soon! Also to add – I have parented my 2 SONS on my own. Not only am I proud of my beautiful children, I also revel in the knowledge that I am probably the kind of woman that Molyneux hates the most! I must be doing something right.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

For some reason, seeing Elam melt down into “wh*res!” mode is just hilarious. I bet he thinks he’s being all badass, too.

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

The whole post-conference meltdown has been hilarious. So far, we have seen AVFM attack CAFE, Jessica Roy twice, and tell us they’ll be attacking two other journalists shortly. Paul has had a melt down about money across the web (watching the reddit meltdown last night was a blast) and called out our very own David in his own site’a money melt down (seriously, David is apparently like, the most important person in the world in AVFM-land).

Their brand of PR is doing all the hard work for those of us who oppose the movement.

pecunium
6 years ago

Sparky: I don’t think it’s PR, I think the actual target audience is the readers of AVfM, it’s a sort of self-valorisation/persecution narrative. Serwer didn’t fawn on them, ergo he’s not an honest reporter (because Everyone Knows, AVfM represents Men in their Struggle Against The Gynocracy), so by being gratuitously insulting he isn’t damaging any useful contacts, nor burning any bridges, but demonstrating that Paul Elam and AVfM are “standing up to the lackey of the Ideological Gender Feminists who Run the Press” and so making a statement.

Never mind that were it as they paint it the best thing to do would be to lull them into a sense of complacence by pretending they didn’t see through the obvious ploys and either politely declined to speak on that subject; while offering to address other issues, or just say that, in light of the coverage they had received they were unwilling to work with that reporter in future.

Either of those would have have been productive responses; if the press were in fact an organ of an oppressive regime and they were in some sort of peril for their beliefs.

But it’s not, and they know it, so belligerent posturing to distract/entertain the few who think Pro-Wrestling* isn’t scripted is in order.

I also think Elam is feeling some heat as a result of just how well the conference has been said to go, and the success of the fundraiser for “security”. He’s saying they had lots of people paying for tickets as a means of “donating to the cause”. There were, by all accounts about 150 people there. Call 25 of them AVfM staffers. and assume, arguendo that they got something like 10 percent of attendance as “donations”, in addition to the people who showed up and the headcount is something like 125.

So…. 125*250 = $31,250US Add $32,000US for the fundraiser, and Elam had a gross income from the event of about 63,000. Take out 10K for the cops, figure speakers fees for Farrell, and Kay probably ate another… what 10K, and he has 43K. His room, and plane fare had to come out of that; (and the income from the fundraiser wasn’t cash in hand, he might not have it yet) and he’s still looking at about 40K, net.

And it looks like some of the Misters are asking about it.

Which already has him in a tizzy… then Serwer pokes that sensitive spot and Elam, with his manly self-control had the chance to lash out, in a petty way, and he did.

*yeah, it’s not the best analogy, because I don’t think anyone in Pro-Wrestling is 1: dependent on the participants being duped, and 2: aware that duping people is in order to keep the money flowing. But it really does feel like performance art.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

“I first learned of Stefan from a video where he was basically bragging about how many people he has driven away from himself with his libertarianism”

Its not the libertarianism. I had no idea who he was and what he stood for when I first came across his vids. Nor did he at the time have a connection with the MRM (as far as I knew). His manner of speaking, how he treated his guests, the way he comported himself, his lack of research and lack of evidence based statement making, and a number of other factors were just turn offs.

Its a shame for his child that she will not know either set of grandparents because her mom and dad never healed their own mommy and daddy issues enough to just sit down for 20 minutes and let them talk to their grandchild.

That’s just nuts.

I wouldn’t doubt one second it could be because they disagree with their wacky ideas and they don’t want their daughter exposed to alternative views of the universe.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule

“That’s just nuts.”

On this site we don’t use ableist terms. There are people who are evil, controlling and manipulative but it has nothing to do with mental conditions.

Eww to that video I think it’s time for some brain bleach
http://youtu.be/czDcAf4p888

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
6 years ago

It occurs to me that the AVFM’s unique PR strategy of load gun, aim gun at foot, fire might be deliberate. If (your choice of higher power forbid) the MRM ever does gain mainstream acceptance, the first thing that will happen is that it’s incompetent leadership will be sidelined for people who can, say, promote a small convention without it turning into a major drama.

On the other hand, if they look like they’re shooting for mainstream acceptance while using tactics certain to keep them on the margins…

mariangela
mariangela
6 years ago

Please forgive me as I couldn’t manage to listen to the whole video, but what does this mean regarding single fathers? Should they also give up their children?

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I was about eight when my father walked out; my siblings were seventeen and fifteen. Does this mean my mother chose a bloke who she somehow knew wasn’t going to stick around, and that she was abusive for … what, not pushing me to that shitbag? Not putting me into care where I really would have been abused?

mariangela
mariangela
6 years ago

I am sorry as hell, kittehserf, to hear your story.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Ok, as interesting as all this serious discussion is, I’m stuck on something silly.

Space aliens land on earth, we’ll assume they can somehow communicate with humans, and recognize violence the same way we do (two big assumptions already) — then they find out that violence is caused by childhood something or other. And their first question is to ask who’s in charge of kids? Not, you know, something more like “your larva require supervision for how long?!” Cuz we’re an oddity even on this planet, he’s assigning his aliens a whole lot more similarity to us than is warranted by their apparent ability to land on earth.

*runs through brain* by my mental archives, most earth species that require rearing are reared by the birthing parent, or both parents in tandem, or a group of related individuals. So, assuming said aliens have any concept of how child rearing tends to go on earth, once they got that humans are one of the (rather few) species that require rearing, it’d be assumed that the birthing parent (women, generally speaking) did that.

But hey, let’s just assume that aliens can speak a human language…well, English, since this model with “vacations” is very western…and understand violence the same way we do (again, almost certainly he’s using either an North American or European definition, particularly since he seems to be assuming a nuclear, versus extended, family unit)…and understand that human offspring require rearing for quite an extended period, and understand gender in a binary manner (again, this can’t even be an assumed biological default on this planet, why in the hell should it be on all planets?)…but once all that is covered, they somehow immediately blame the rearing parent for all issues and what? Assume that it’s normal for the human male to abandon his offspring and this is something the female should predict?

That might be the most boggling part — sometimes the human male abandons his offspring, sometimes he doesn’t, and the female is responsible if he does. Actually, fuck, he’s inadvertently using a very broad biological model — among other species where the non-birth parent only sometimes sticks around, the odds of survival of the offspring increase if said parent does stick around. Hell, even if it isn’t abandonment — a widowed robin will probably lose her young for example — both parents are required for around the clock feeding.

So aliens would look at that and say that the female robin is abusive for not putting her young up for adoption? Add in the assumption that aliens would understand adoption (probably not considering penguins are the only non-primate example of it that I can think of outside species where the grown offspring leave their home to mate elsewhere — and even among other primates adopting an orphan isn’t a sure thing, some species are happy to kill young not related to them)

And this is all working off biology on this planet! Somehow I find it impossible that aliens would understand all the “facts” required to arrive at the idea that humans require rearing, this is usually by two parents (not actually a fact, extended family groups are quite common), that the male parent sometimes, but only sometimes, leaves (and this is somehow something the female parent should’ve factored in…but this only applies if he leaves, death is what exactly in his model?), AND define violence as we do…but not already understand that the female parent, the one who births human offspring, does most of the childcare?

This guy shouldn’t write scifi, this is all well outside my ability to suspend disbelief.

katz
6 years ago

Not, you know, something more like “your larva require supervision for how long?!”

“It’s nine o’clock. Do you know where your larvae are?”

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

Maybe our esteemed philosopher is part of an X-Files style government conspiracy and that is how he can speak in such an educated manner about said aliens?

Call Mulder and Scully, y’all.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

marieangela, thanks, but don’t feel bad! Apart from the money situation, it was no loss. He was so little involved in my life that it made little difference – I don’t actually remember missing him at all – and within a few weeks Mum was glad he was gone.

“It’s nine o’clock. Do you know where your larvae are?”

“It’s all right, dear, they’re pupating.”

Argenti – you’ve nailed the reason Alien Unit MolyNothingNewHere wound up on earth: he’s been exiled for too much fail.

Ann Somerville
6 years ago

Its a shame for his child that she will not know either set of grandparents because her mom and dad never healed their own mommy and daddy issues enough to just sit down for 20 minutes and let them talk to their grandchild.

If I’d had a child – and one of the reasons I *don’t* have one is because of my abusive upbringing – my disturbed and deeply selfish parents would have never been allowed within ten miles of them, and my in laws would have been on a short leash because the MiL (now deceased) had some very fucked up views on children and parenting.

Not all grandparents are unalloyed blessings, and referring to needing to keep the hell away from abusive/dangerous parents as ‘mommy and daddy issues” is incredibly insulting to abuse survivors. Knock it off, please. Molyneaux is a royal pimple but you don’t know what he and his wife went through, and you weren’t there, so quit the judging on that aspect of their lives.

Back to lurking.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Anne, seconded about grandparents. I wouldn’t have minded knowing my mother’s father, but as for her mother, or my male parental unit’s (adoptive) parents, no thanks, I’m glad they all passed long since. Not people I’d want anything to do with.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“you’ve nailed the reason Alien Unit MolyNothingNewHere wound up on earth: he’s been exiled for too much fail.”

Lol, so earth is alien exile? Kinda like Australia was? Makes sense I guess, we do have some nasty critters. Like, idk, all the ones you’ve got down under! (Fucking huntsmen, spiders should not be that fast and that big!)

And their pupating! *dies* love it

(FTR I only went with larva as it was the most generic form of offspring I could think of, mostly because there are a lot of insect species!)

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

**Sigh**
I loved “The X-Files”, WatermelonSugar.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

It’s easy to imagine aliens looking at humans and thinking, yep, send this idiot there, he’ll fit right in.

Huntsmen are really the least of your worries about Oz spiders. Fast yes, scary yes, but their venom’s not dangerous. I’d probably have a heart attack from one being on me, not from any bite!

The spiders to be really careful of are Sydney funnelwebs. They’ve got fangs bigger than a snake’s and can bite through toenails. Luckily there’s been an antivenom available since 1981 and nobody’s died from their bites since then. Even the famous redback isn’t as dangerous as its reputation suggests – extremely painful bite, yes, but luckily its fangs are tiny, so it can’t always do harm to humans.

Now snakes … you really don’t want to mess with out snakes!

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Snakes don’t scare me though, so I wouldn’t freak and scare the snake. Anyways, we’ve got copperheads here, so I got trained young how not to piss off poisonous snakes. You’re right about the funnelwebs though, I think I banished those fuckers from my memory!

But I freak at our jumping spiders — smaller than your fingernail, harmless, and yet I run and hide. Ask Pecunium, I made him an unhappy camper once by killing one in his garage! So yeah, a huntsman would indeed cause death by heart failure!

Y’all have blue ringed sea beasties though don’t you? I don’t think I could handle being near the Great Barrier Reef and not making a habit out of spending time underwater!

Children of the Broccoli
Children of the Broccoli
6 years ago

It’s all right dear, they’re pupating.”

Is that a Far Side reference? I swear there was a Far Side strip that made a joke along those lines once.

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
6 years ago

Unbelievable. Molyneux pretends to be a young attractive woman and posts comment praising his review of the Disney film “Frozen” and thanking himself for it.

Stefan Molyneux via Google+
1 month ago

I love this. You totally kinda ruined frozen for me but i really enjoyed this a lot more than the actual movie. And you really got me thinking about a lot. Being an attractive young woman, I understand what is like to be seen as nothing more than a sex doll. I also know what it is like to use that to my “advantage” to “get over” the system. HELL I even know what it is to suffer mental illness, only to be told bu my parents to ignore it. HOWEVER, despite all of this I feel like I have learned more lessons from everything that has happened in my life. Thank you so much for posting this. Honestly I want to make a difference in the world, and I looked to people like you to sort of guide me in the right direction. THANKS SO MUCH.

From here;

pecunium
6 years ago

Argenti: Add in the assumption that aliens would understand adoption (probably not considering penguins are the only non-primate example of it that I can think of outside species where the grown offspring leave their home to mate elsewhere — and even among other primates adopting an orphan isn’t a sure thing, some species are happy to kill young not related to them)

Guinea pigs will adopt any piglet.

Rats and mice aren’t fussy either.

I think elephants will care for orphaned young but I don’t know if they are able/willing to wet nurse one which isn’t weaned.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

That was way more than I needed to know about Stevie’s fantasy life.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Children of the Broccoli – not a Far Side I was thinking of, it might have bubbled up from the memory, though. I loved that cartoon!

Argenti – same here, I think snakes are beautiful, they’re not scary-looking to me. Never encountered one outside a zoo, though.

Yeah, teensy jumping spiders freak me out a bit, too, or even more ridiculously, the ones we call money spiders – half the size of a jumping spider, but the only time I see ’em is running across the couch, or across me sitting on the couch, and without thinking I’ve leapt up and am bashing wildly at where I last saw the thing.

Ah yes, the blue-ringed [sea beastie whose plural shall not be discussed]. Yup, we’ve got those, and the crown of thorns starfish, and the Portuguese man o’ war. Lovely critters all.

Don’t worry about sharks, though: more people die of bee stings than get bitten by sharks (and the fucking WA government is busy trying to exterminate cull the great whites … scum).

Cool bit of eco news: crows and magpies here have figured out how to eat cane toads without getting poisoned. They flip ’em over and eat from the belly instead of from the back, where the poison glands are. Let’s hope our other predatory birds figure it out too. So far, it’s mostly invertebrates that can deal with the toads – some of the northern tarantulas manage to eat the beggars! Never thought I’d be cheering a spider. 😛

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Pecunium – looks like at least some elephants cross-suckle calves as a normal thing:

Closely-related females will even cross suckle each other’s calves and some females will lactate indefinitely, taking on a wet nurse role in the family. Enid, Echo’s oldest daughter, has a natural mothering instinct and love for calves. She was an allomother, or babysitter, to her younger brother, Ely.

Given how closely related the herd is, I’d presume this would include orphaned calves.

Source

pecunium
6 years ago

kittehs: I figured that was the case, given the strong familial bonds among elephants. I recall reading of a case where a couple of elephants who’d not seen each other in some ridiculous amount of time (I want to say it was more than 20 years) were re-acquainted and just went mad with joy.

There was footage, it was beautiful.

tesformes
6 years ago

I took a screenshot of the Molyneux YouTube embarassment before it comes down. http://imgur.com/tk6yyvN

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Oohhhh, I’d love to see that, pecunium.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Was that the reunion of Shirely and Jenny at the Tennessee Elephant Sanctuary?

http://youtu.be/lF8em4uPdCg

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

I’ll have to expand that to mammals and penguins then! And I’m silly, since I know pet cats and dog will adopt — cross species even!

Kitteh — oh, I’m not worried about sharks, more like worried for them. It’s the sea beasties that concern me, particularly the ones that just drift along, completely oblivious to whether they’re about to sting you. Not that that’s their fault, obviously, but it makes it harder to avoid them.

And as for sharks, great whites aren’t the ones to fear in the first place, I blame Jaws. Bull sharks are way more likely to have a human snack.

Lol, pecunium, would Yudcultsky say that SCUBA diving is too risky for his precious brain? (Just regular old diving, not cave diving or anything particularly risky like that)

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

the idea of a mother having to give her children up for adoption is the farther dies is just so ridiculous. As if it wouldn’t be traumatizing enough to lose their father, then they get separated from their mother too? Really? Unless both parents are incredibly abusive, it seems very likely any kid would prefer losing both parents to losing one.

I wonder how calling solo parenting abuse supports men raising kids on their own? Is it only women who are abusing kids by raising them alone? How the actual fuck does that make sense?

I wondered the too. My good friend’s mother died when she was 12 so her dad was a single father after that. Was it abusive of him to not give her up for adoption? Or is it OK because he’s a man?

He also leaves out the fact that people mostly want to adopt white babies or toddlers. Older kids and black kids in particular have more trouble being placed. Would kids really be better off in an orphanage than with a loving single parent. It’s just so stupid.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

LOL at Moly being too stupid to learn how to sock properly.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

As anyone alerted David to Paul Elam’s comments about the money he raised? It seems like a good subject for a post.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Crows adopt. Last year’s hatchlings will stick around and help raise their siblings too. The father’s are as involved as the mothers in raising the chicks.
I like crows. I sometimes see a pair of them chase off a hawk. No offence to the hawk, but I root for the crows every time.

I think lionesses will adopt their sister’s cubs too.