Categories
$MONEY$ a new woman to hate a voice for men a woman is always to blame citation needed conspiracy theory drama drama kings misogyny MRA paul elam threats

AVFM's Paul Elam posts attack on the Doubletree Fort Shelby Hotel, suggests that the alleged threats to the hotel were phony

The fur and accusations are flying!
The fur and accusations are flying!

A Voice for Men’s grandly titled First International Conference on Men’s Issues wound down a week ago. But the drama continues.

Today, in a post on AVFM, maximum leader Paul Elam set forth a series of accusations against the Doubletree Fort Shelby Hotel (where the conference was originally going to be held); against an unnamed security contracting company in Houston; and even against some hypothetical “privileged little college girls” who might have had the conference booted from the Doubletree by simply making a couple of irate phone calls, because, at least in Elam’s imagination, “privileged little college girls” have that power.

But the bulk of Elam’s complaints lie with the Doubletree, as the typically understated title of his post makes clear:

elamdoubletree

While acknowledging that “ there are still some questions that remain unanswered” (a bit of an understatement, that), Elam spells out what he thinks – or what he wants us to think that he thinks – happened. He presents what he calls “ the two most likely scenarios based on what evidence we have.”

In the first scenario, the Doubletree got actual threats and handled them very, very badly:

One is that the Hilton got serious and “escalating” death threats against their employees, guests, ICMI speakers and attendees, prompting them to go into emergency mode and invoke the security clause of our contract with them. Their demands forced us to raise tens of thousands of additional dollars to literally blanket the event with Detroit Police, just to make sure no one wound up dead.

I believe by “literally” Mr. Elam actually means “figuratively,” but let’s continue:

That would be the same police that they had not even bothered to call at that point. It is the same police that did not even know about any supposed threats when we called them to inquire; the same police which Doubletree used to attempt to shake us down, but neglected to even call till after they engaged in an attempt to force us to spend our way out of having our conference.

The second scenario is the one involving “college girls.”

The other possible scenario is that what Doubletree Downtown Hilton got was a couple of irate phone calls from privileged little college girls who don’t want men and women to talk without their permission, and, with the help of a sympathetic general manager in the middle of labor problems with the hotel’s union, decided to use those decidedly nonthreatening contacts to breach their contract with us and keep protesters away from their hotel.

Either possibility leaves Doubletree Downtown Hilton Detroit looking scummy, and for damned good reasons.

Elam also insinuates that the Doubletree sabotaged his good-faith efforts to hire Detroit police to provide security for the conference. For some unknown reason this involved “a contract company that happened to be located in the Houston area.” Elam writes:

We finally did locate the company we had to do business with, and a very nice lady there was preparing a quote for us, when lo and behold, in the middle of that process, she informed us that her boss had instructed her not to do business with us. Yes, we have that on a recorded phone call, which will be the subject of another (of many) future articles on our dealings with the Doubletree Downtown Hilton in Detroit, Michigan.

So, as it turns out, while in the middle of meeting the security demands of Hilton, someone stepped in to sabotage that, making it literally impossible for us to comply, giving Hilton the excuse to pull the plug.

Gee, wonder who was behind that?

Elam has decided to break an agreement he had with the Doubletree and to go ahead and post what he says are two letters he received from them, and a letter from his lawyer to the Doubletree. One of these letters is the original letter that AVFM posted about the alleged threats. Only now the name of the Doubletree letter-writer has been un-redacted.

Happily for Elam and his fans, the Doubletree staffer who wrote the letter is a woman. AVFM does prefer its villains to be female.

In the comments, longtime AVFM fan AndyBob writes sneeringly of this new woman to hate (I’ve redacted her name):

[Name redacted] may have even enjoyed her role in undermining the patriarchy and taking it to the cleaners. I’ve never encountered a feminist who doesn’t fantasize about playing a role in accomplishing this goal. Thanks to Paul Elam’s steely resolve, it is very likely that we are going to find out if [name redacted]  is one of them.

I suspect that [name redacted] had better start packing for her sideways promotion to a Doubletree branch located in some far-flung hell-hole. Bon Voyage, [name redacted], it was an experience doing business with you.

Dr Elam, please keep doing what you’re doing in exactly the same way you’ve always done it – the survival of the MHRM depends on it.

Note: Dr. Elam is not a doctor.

I checked to see if anyone in the comments was calling [name redacted] a “whore,” but much to my surprise the only reference to whores came in a comment from Dean Esmay, directed at MSNBC’s Adam Serwer (not a woman).

Yes, we’ll be doing a profile piece on ideological whore Adam Serwer, whose behavior at the conference was so unprofessional, rage-filled, and contemptuous of all the women and men present that even other journalists who were there remarked upon it. The contemptible liar and whore Adam Serwer was an embarrassment even to his fellow reporters. One of the questions we expect him not to answer in our followup emails to him and his corporate managerses will be how much money he was paid to spit venom at the conference attendees while pretending to act like a reporter, and whether being a paid whore instead of a real journalist is something he enjoys. Look for more on him soon. He and two other whores who pretended to be journalists will also be receiving special coverage.

I think we can expect a lot more drama to come.

A couple of points:

First, if Elam’s account of AVFM’s dealings with the Doubletree is accurate, this means that his previous claim that AVFM moved the conference to the VFW simply because it had larger facilities was bullshit. But we already knew that, given all those empty chairs we saw in so many of the photos of AVFM’s conference. The letter from AVFM’s lawyer alleges that the Doubletree misrepresented the seating capacity of its event space, but it’s clearly a secondary concern.

Second, and a bit more important: It’s clear from the letter sent by AVFM’s lawyer that Elam didn’t believe the hotel had gotten credible threats. Indeed, the letter states that:

Mr. Elam and AVfM believe that the Hotel has simply decided that it does not want to host the Event and manufactured a reason not to.

That’s not what they were saying publicly at the time.

So evidently, AVFM’s dramatic posturing about threats from feminists was little more than an act. Nonetheless, AVFMers tried to pin the blame for the alleged threats their lawyer described as “manufactured security issues” on a real Detroit schoolteacher.

AVFM also seems to have reported threats to the Detroit Police, at least two. But we have no idea how credible they were. Were I a cynic I might find myself wondering if they reported these threats to the police just so that the police would finally be able to tell journalists that there had been threats, thus buttressing AVFM’s persecution narrative.

As for the threats AVFMers claim were made against the VFW, well, we should note that one of the St. Clair Shores officers working security for the event told AnimalNewYork that no specific threats had been made.

Among the questions that remain unanswered: what happened to all that money AVFM raised for security they didn’t need? Did they somehow manage to spend it all hiring a few St. Claire Shores cops? Or did they end up with a surplus? If the latter, why did AVFM need to launch a second fundraiser only a few days after the conference’s end? How much money does Elam need, anyway?

Why are [name redacted’s] signatures on the two documents AVFM has posted completely different from one another?

Also, is Esmay retiring “hatemongering bigot” as his epithet of choice in favor of “whore?” I thought that calling people whores was Janet Bloomfield’s job?

Questions, questions, so many questions.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

176 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

See, there were still a few dry granules of litter, scattered across the huge mountain of wet litter -) and they all tried to get in there at the same time, little shits that they are.

I’m telling Mum this to remind her we have it easy these days! 😀

Agent Orange (@AgentOrangeMRA)

David, not trying to be an asshole here like I usually am. There were five armed security officers on the premises from Thurs thru to the end to the conference. We’re talking armed with guns here, not just nightsticks or mace. Going costs for bonded officers is pretty damned high. Just because the location was switched does not mean that money did not go towards security as was promised.

In fact, it did. When you are bringing in a prominent politician to such a private event, its a really good idea to have some kind of armed security service.

pecunium
7 years ago

He Woody: Wanta explain what Elam is gonna do with your money:

The Detroit protesters did win one battle in the sense that they imposed a great deal of inconvenience on participants (constant shuttling between motels and the venue), not to mention $10,000 for a police presence that wasn’t necessary, since the protesters’ objectives of causing financial and logistical hardship had already been achieved

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
7 years ago

Commercials have nothing to do with the product or company anymore. 😀

Falconer
7 years ago

Paranoid,,rage filled, untruthful, bullying, greedy, misogynist. Why Mr Elam, I can’t say a nice word about you

He … is very efficient at turning oxygen into carbon dioxide, so at least all his plants are healthy?

Falconer
7 years ago

Hooray for poop. Poop is more interesting than Woody.

Hooray for baby poop. Hooray for baby poop going back to the color it’s supposed to be, meaning that the discoloration was just from the strawberry ice cream we fed them on Friday.

pecunium
7 years ago

Yay for strawberry ice cream.

Falconer
7 years ago

Or possibly watermelon. They have hollow legs explicitly for storing away watermelon.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Strawberry coloured baby poop? Wow.

bluecatbabe
bluecatbabe
7 years ago

My niece’s first artwork after the arrival of her younger sister was called “New Baby Bad Poo”.

Apparently neonate poop is quite remarkable so it’s good it was immortalised by a 4 year old artist.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
7 years ago

And now sounds like it’s time for the Arrogant Worms ‘Baby Poo’ song…

The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule
7 years ago

@The Chartreuse Vegan Capsule

“Here is where JudgyBitch began trolling us.”

I went and commented:

“OK I read a few of Janet Judgy Witch Broomwielders (apologies to good witches reading this) comments, like two, and just couldn’t anymore.
She was probably sloshed while writing them and that’s why they are so clusterf*cked. She openly discusses her alcohol addiction on her blog. Every day when the hubby’s at work and kids are at school, Mom is kickin’ back her heels and throwin’ ‘em back, one after the other.
There’s a time of day when she’s noticebly drunk, you can tell by how her writing “evolves” (or devolves) on her blog. It peaks shortly before everyone returns home.

Ahhhh, these Manosphere Ladies’ Auxilery Stay at Home Moms are really industrious, hardworking “home makers”, aren’t they?
I envy their husbands. Such quality wives they’ve landed. Lucky bastards.”

– What’s worrisome though is the effortless ease at which she will “dox” and accuse a complete stranger (the school teacher) of committing a serious crime. Death threats are a felony, aren’t they? I mean, she’s putting one person’s entire life, and likely more than one (family), at serious risk here.

Why the hell would she do something like that?

What’s the gain in it for the MHRM to accuse strangers of crimes against them? I hope this backfires in a major way. She’s a bully of the worst kind.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I am very glad that it was only the strawberry ice cream, and that the oddly colored poop is now a thing of the past.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

In other words, Elam admits that the death threats were fakity fake fake, but it trying to claim that someone else faked them.

Sometimes I wonder if he’s just a really committed performance artist, trying to see how much bullshit he can get people to believe. I mean, he’s contradicting himself and claiming that we have always been at war with Eastasia The Doubletree and people are still falling for it.

It’s all an elaborate performance piece on the use of propaganda, right? Please?

in the middle of that process, she informed us that her boss had instructed her not to do business with us. Yes, we have that on a recorded phone call, which will be the subject of another (of many) future articles on our dealings with the Doubletree Downtown Hilton in Detroit, Michigan.

Assuming he ever does post it, I’m sure it’ll be as authentic as the original letter.

And nice use of repetition there. It’s like he’s afraid his goons will forget the name of their target if he doesn’t repeat it.

One of the questions we expect him not to answer in our followup emails to him and his corporate managerses will be how much money he was paid to spit venom at the conference attendees while pretending to act like a reporter

And when he doesn’t answer, it’ll be because he’s been caught being a w*ore, not because that’s a bloody ridiculous question.

Ever notice how that’s the only response some cranks have, though? If you write something critical of their ideology, it must be because feminists/Monsanto/Big Pharma/the lamestream media paid you to. Mere difference of opinion doesn’t exist to some people – you’re either with us, or you’re part of the conspiracy.

I doubt it’s a coincidence that their favourite scapegoats are young people who, generally speaking, have very little money and very little political power.

They also like to single out women they can accuse of having privilege (correctly, in the case of college attendance) because comparing themselves to less privileged women undermines their whole ideology.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Paul Elam now appears to be having some kind of poetry meltdown in response to a reddit troll:

LOL! Are you trying to be a poetic therapist? If so you suck at both.
Listen to you, seething on the surface
In the fading quick, your rest, dormant
A greasy potato on the floor of shame’s kitchen
Your sole legacy a gutter full of digital dirt
A wish for relevance never to happen
Adrift in a sea of failed ambitions
Hacking away at anything that reminds you
Of what you are not, and will never be.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

Eep! Let’s see if I can fix the tags:

In other words, Elam admits that the death threats were fakity fake fake, but it trying to claim that someone else faked them.

Sometimes I wonder if he’s just a really committed performance artist, trying to see how much bullshit he can get people to believe. I mean, he’s contradicting himself and claiming that we have always been at war with Eastasia The Doubletree and people are still falling for it.

It’s all an elaborate performance piece on the use of propaganda, right? Please?

in the middle of that process, she informed us that her boss had instructed her not to do business with us. Yes, we have that on a recorded phone call, which will be the subject of another (of many) future articles on our dealings with the Doubletree Downtown Hilton in Detroit, Michigan.

Assuming he ever does post it, I’m sure it’ll be as authentic as the original letter.

And nice use of repetition there. It’s like he’s afraid his goons will forget the name of their target if he doesn’t repeat it.

One of the questions we expect him not to answer in our followup emails to him and his corporate managerses will be how much money he was paid to spit venom at the conference attendees while pretending to act like a reporter

And when he doesn’t answer, it’ll be because he’s been caught being a w*ore, not because that’s a bloody ridiculous question.

Ever notice how that’s the only response some cranks have, though? If you write something critical of their ideology, it must be because feminists/Monsanto/Big Pharma/the lamestream media paid you to. Mere difference of opinion doesn’t exist to some people – you’re either with us, or you’re part of the conspiracy.

I doubt it’s a coincidence that their favourite scapegoats are young people who, generally speaking, have very little money and very little political power.

They also like to single out women they can accuse of having privilege (correctly, in the case of college attendance) because comparing themselves to less privileged women undermines their whole ideology.

Falconer
7 years ago

Apparently neonate poop is quite remarkable so it’s good it was immortalised by a 4 year old artist.

Well, it’s not poo in the traditional sense, it’s dead cells and shed lining from the intestines.

But it is blacker than the night sky and stickier than tar.

@cloudiah: Yeah, it’s a big relief! It was an alarming color.

@jenora feuer: Those wee babies are a delight. Their metabolic waste product, not so much.

Ally S
7 years ago

poo in the traditional sense

What a phrase.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

a greasy potato on the floor of shame’s kitchen

Why does Paul Elam think he can write?

booburry
7 years ago

Have any of you ever listened to The Majority Report? Its a liberal news opinion type show …I watch it on youtube but I think it airs on the radio. Its hosted by Sam Seder mostly but he has fill ins (like in this video). I saw recently they started covering the conference which pleased me because all the other lib leaning shows I watch or listen to didn’t cover it at all. Anyway, now someone from AVFM challenged this kid on the show to a debate and I thought maybe someone here would be interested. There are also other videos on their channel just taking about the conference…and one decent one where he tries to explain why feminists and MRAs are not to sides of the same coin.

I apologize if this is too off topic!

Falconer
7 years ago

@Ally S:

What a phrase.

Thank you!

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Re: baby poo, I had to make a very embarrassing request at daycare last summer to keep an eye out for a plastic John Lennon wig in the twins’ poo. (They had been playing with some K’Nex Yellow Submarine figurines, when suddenly I noticed Lennon was bald, and the wig was nowhere, man.)

After a week of horrible diaper excavations and awkward conversations with increasingly stone-faced daycare providers, the Lennon wig eventually turned up behind the bookcase.

Nitram
7 years ago

Kiki

“I love the bit about her being demoted to a Doubletree in ‘some far-flung hell-hole’.

(Cheesy Bond movie Russian accent) “Perhaps you will be a little more – shall we say, accommodating? – in new job at Doubletree Hotel in… SIBERIA!””

I so lol’d at this! I thought the same thing! We do not live in a world where employees that screw up get transfered to a hellhole. Like the end of 9-5 with Dolly Parton? Further evidence that these guys are not in reality.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

@booburry

Matt Binder’s response!

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

DOH! I just repeated what you posted. I thought it was the original video.

Anyway, I look forward to it but if it goes the way the David vs. Paul “debate” went, it could be a train wreck. At least they’ll be on Matt’s turf.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Is it just me, or do others prefer that Matt Binder not debate Paul Elam? Not just because there’s no point in debating someone who makes no valid arguments, and not just because Binder seems more like a blowhard than a thoughtful debater, but also because Paul Elam is first in the comments saying that this debate will only happen if it occurs under AVfM’s complete control.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

@cloudiah

I’ve only watched a couple of Matt’s shows but I can’t see him winning that debate and most definitely not if it’s under AVFM control.

Gotta love how Elam turned chicken when his challenge was accepted, though. If he’s so sure he’ll win, why not have it heard by an audience that is massively bigger than AVFM’s?

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“After a week of horrible diaper excavations and awkward conversations with increasingly stone-faced daycare providers, the Lennon wig eventually turned up behind the bookcase.”

*dies*

Is it weird that I’m glad everyone and their offspring have good poo reports? Is “poo quality” on report cards?

Throwaway — last time I was nice, last time I warned you that I was being nice, this time? Nope. Take your fucking bullshit someplace else. Pack up your silly little views on gender, put them in some saddle bags, and ride your high horse straight out of town. To use the colloquial — fuck off.

(For those who don’t remember his last appearance, throwaway graced us with his thoughts in how if a female reporter cried at the conference she should have to explain why and isn’t fit to be a reporter anyways.)

Woody — please, do tell us what your beloved Elam has ever done to help boys or men, define that as you will, so long as you can provide proof that practical aid was rendered.

Woody
Woody
7 years ago

“maximum leader”

Oh ho ho ho, you’re very subtle!

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Shut up, Woody.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Cool, I finally got to do that.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
7 years ago

As a moderator, I encourage you to say “shut up, Woody” whenever you like. You can even do it preemptively, if you want!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

As a moderator, I second that.

Shut up, Woody.

Skye
Skye
7 years ago

Bringing things back to JB’s creepiness from before regarding the Detroit school teacher, I find it very interesting that AVFM is admitting they don’t believe there were any credible threats after dragging this woman through the mud for possibly/maybe making said threats. Is there a legal recourse for her? Didn’t she get harassed as a result of this crap?

Falconer
7 years ago

Aroynt thee, O wooded one!

I would that we were better strangers.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

::applauds Falconer::

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Hush, Pinocchio, the grown-ups are talking.

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

Can we make “Shut up, Woody” a drinking game?

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Only if you want alcohol poisoning! There’s a reason there are no manboobz/WHTM drinking games afaik.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

We could make it a take a sip of water game, but even then it is possible to drink enough water to hurt yourself.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

(Let’s not do coffee or I’m going to end up like Tweak from South Park.)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

A sip of the sports drink of your choice? Keep those electrolytes balanced?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

I dunno, those things have a lot of sugar in them, I think we’d all end up running around like toddlers who just got into the 2 liter bottle of Coke.

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

Damn, the potential dangers of making “Shut up, Woody” as drinking game are abundant. I guess we’ll just have to find joy in just telling him to shut up — unless of course the Blue Fairy comes along and makes him a Real Boy.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

I think the Blue Fairy will leave him at the bottom of the ocean and come drinking with us instead.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I would that we were better strangers.

This is now my favorite thing.

Also, shut up Woody.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

There was a drinking game on Pandagon the other day with the birth-control idiot trolls.

People were seeing double in no time.

GrumpyOldNurse
GrumpyOldNurse
7 years ago

@marinerachel
Pooping is very important! If you don’t poop, you will die. Srsly, I studied this in school. A lot! I can even draw diagrams!

pecunium
7 years ago

Throwaway: They didn’t have an “agreement”, they had a contract. When the contract was broken any such agreement was also broken.

You know this, you are just a shitty person and a terrible hack.

Ever run an event? I have. The DoubleTree didn’t break the contract. What they did was exercise one of the clauses in it (and it’s a standard clause). Elam, apparently, failed to account for that possibility, and then failed/refused to fulfill his contractual obligations (to provide proof of a non-cancellable contract to provide security).

At which point the DoubleTree, as was their right, cancelled the contract for non-fulfillment.

But Elam has admitted they wanted out of the contract before that. The Cynic in me thinks it was because he negotiated a poor contract, and wanted to skim a little more money off the top.

His angry flailing about how he doesn’t owe anyone any explanation about where the money is going managed to do something I’d not thought possible, i.e. lower my opinion of him.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
7 years ago

Now that would be a great troll challenge – draw poop!