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Defenders of A Voice for Men tell Time magazine reporter "we have to SCARE you into listening," you "stinky … human monkey."

The High Council of Feminism holds a meeting.
The High Council of Feminism holds a meeting.

Jessica Roy, a reporter for Time magazine covering A Voice for Men’s recent :”Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, found herself the target of a vitriolic tirade from AVFM maximum leader Paul Elam before she even sat down to write her account of her time amongst the MRAs.

Elam, evidently incensed about a handful of sarcastic remarks that Roy tweeted during the conference, denounced her as, among other things, a “hack,” “a liar and bigot” and a practitioner of “journalistic scumtardery,” whatever that is. Commenters on A Voice for Men happily joined in the hate, denouncing her as an “airhead,” a “disgrace and a liar,” “lil’ miss hair-o’or-her-eyes,” and a “little asshole [who] will look like a right nazi in five-to-ten years time.” Amazingly, no one pulled out the c-word. Evidently AVFMers are still on their best behavior.

Roy’s “What I Learned as a Woman at a Men’s Rights Conference” appeared on Time.com on Wednesday. Far from the hack job Elam and pals were predicting, her piece turned out to be a long, thoughtful and nuanced account that, while skeptical of AVFM and its brand of hateful nonsense, displayed considerable sympathy for some of the troubled men she met at the conference, men who could benefit from a movement that truly tried to offer solutions for men in difficulty instead of encouraging them to scapegoat feminists and women.

Reflecting on her discussions with several conference attendees, Roy wrote,

When you talk to someone like 68-year-old Steve DeLuca, the legitimate need to remedy some of the issues raised by men’s rights activists becomes more evident. A Vietnam veteran who was injured in combat, DeLuca spoke movingly to me about the two brothers he lost to suicide, and the unfathomable toll the high suicide rate among men can take. There are men out there, like DeLuca and [rape survivor] Brendan Rex, who have a real stake in the movement’s success. The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them.

So how did AVFM fans respond to this article? By defending their vitriol. On Time.com, several commenters denounced Roy as “bigot” and a “fascist,” and suggested that their “righteous anger” was the only appropriate response to the evils of feminism.

DennisMarkham 1 day ago  "The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them."   Yes it can.  We are dealing with in irrational, incompassionate society.  When MRAs express their grievances with cool rationality or sadness, it just blows past people like you like a gentle breeze.  Only when we pack some sting does anyone actually listen.   Vitriol is the only way we've ever gotten society to listen.  The MRM has tried to be cool and calm for over 40 years and to no avail.  Maybe when you start taking male suffering seriously instead of dismissing it with "check your privilege" and "man up", that'll change.  But until then, you reap what you sow.  We have to SCARE you into listening.

Never mind that the quote Markham was responding to came from a paragraph in which Roy wrote with sympathy about the suffering of male Veterans and rape survivors.

Meanwhile, an anonymous commenter received upvotes for this, er, nuanced analysis:

Guest 1 day ago  @eltra Our hatred for fascist (mainstream) feminism is hardly rooted in misinformation.  You'd know that had you actually bothered to listen to Erin Pizzey or GirlWritesWhat speaking at the conference.   We ARE wronged because feminism is a bigoted, reverse-sexist, and female supremacist tyranny imposed on us by the male (and female) monkeys who puppeteer for popularity at the top of governments in the whole of the Western world.

In a followup comment, “Guest” doubled-down, suggesting that Roy was a “stinky twit” and a “human monkey.”

Guest 15 hours ago  Look. Based on both their ideology and their behavior, mainstream feminists ARE fascists. The reason they became POWERFUL PC fascists is because good men and good women have mostly been too faint hearted or deluded to condemn them.  Clearly, Biden, Obama and the stinky twit who wrote this article are human monkeys because they damn well do know better but the keep trotting out the same traitorous and misandrist monkey business year after year. It's time remove feminist monkeys from power and find a social cage wherein they can chatter bigoted nonsense to one another more harmlessly. That already happened to the KKK. In time, feminist bigots will also be banned from civil discourse rather than lauded as heroic victims of the patriarchy.  Vitriol is appropriate for fascist bigots who have been defecating an endless load of baseless bigoted vitriol themsexes since the monkey movement began in Seneca Falls. You also need to stop already with the false accusation of misogyny. Sadly, not all feminists are women but, happily, not all women are feminists. To loath the women and men who back Roy's officially coddled hate movement is perfectly REASONable. Be nice to see men pitch to help destroy Erin Pizzey's 'Evil Empire' so that bigots like Roy cannot mock, roidicule and silence anti-feminists and MHRMs on the pages of Time too.

Roy made clear that she learned a good deal at the conference. The defenders of AVFM’s vitriol seem to have learned nothing.

NOTE: Picture of monkey party borrowed from here.

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Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

LBT — I only asked because any study claiming 100% anything is only good for TP or lining birdcages. The only times 100% anything can be scientifically valid is if it’s tautological.

And as for who commits most CSA — 90% of abusers are male ( http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet/pdf/CSA-FS20.pdf page 8)

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

LBT:

LBT (with an open writeathon!) | August 4, 2014 at 5:59 pm
Mod challenge for the irrev: he has to cite a statistic. A real one, not just some third-hand spin from something Woody would read.

I second this idea!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Yeah, he did the “so what you’re saying is (makes shit up)” thing last time too.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

“In America the odds of being murdered is greatest during the first year of life than at any other time.”

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf — page four, try again

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

I do and don’t want to know what these alleged English feminists are up to. I know we will never get a citation, so I guess I’ll just have to wonder.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

PS see page 7, where 2/3rds of those who killed kids under age 5 were men.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: rev

Yes I know, and readily available birth control. Doesn’t seem to be working.

HAHAHAHA you don’t know shit. My birth control cost as much as my month’s rent at the time, and also required an anal exam before I could get it. But yeah, readily available, sure buddy.

Look at the meth-head that dumped her six or seven newborns in the garage?

…all at the same time? Dude, sextuplets are kind of unusual. Also, seeing as you can’t even remember how many babies she has, I’m going to assume you’re making shit up.

Are you like those English feminists that want child murder legal for the first year,

Yes. Yes, I’m exactly like those feminists. I’m going to come and bake all the most adorable babies into a delicious cake, frosted with the blood of unicorns. And I’ll do it entirely to make men look bad, because since I’m a man, feminism will know I am against them. I am being totally earnest and not sarcastic at all. I promise. Pinky swear.

So, hellkell, cassandrakitty, you got any unicorn blood? I’d rather have the Goddess-powered kind, but the stuff costs a load, so…

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’m all out, sorry. It’s the virginity requirement, you see.

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

From the Fourth National incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect from the US Department of Health and Human Services (pages 14-15):

Perpetrator’s sex. Children were somewhat more likely to be maltreated by female perpetrators than by males: 68% of the maltreated children were maltreated by a female, whereas 48% were maltreated by a male. (Some children were maltreated by both.) Of children maltreated by biological parents, mothers maltreated the majority (75%) whereas fathers maltreated a sizable minority (43%). In contrast, male perpetrators were more common for children maltreated by nonbiological parents or parents’ partners (64%) or by other persons (75%).
The predominant sex of perpetrators of abuse was different from that of neglect. Female perpetrators were more often responsible for neglect (86% of children neglected by females versus 38% by males). This finding is congruent with the fact that mothers (biological or other) tend to be the primary caretakers and are the primary persons held accountable for any omissions and/or failings in caretaking. In contrast,males more often were abusers (62% of children were abused by males versus 41% by females). The prevalence of male perpetrators was strongest in the category of sexual abuse, where 87% of children were abused by a male compared to only 11% by a female.
Among all abused children, those abused by their biological parents were about equally likely to have been abused by mothers as by fathers (51% and 54%, respectively), but those abused by nonbiological parents or parents’ partners, or by other, perpetrators were much more likely to be abused by males (74% or more by males versus 26% or less by females).

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

You will NOT be assaulting any of the unicorns in my stable!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Sparky (and LBT) — the other thing with neglect, and why I’m not surprised it’s where women do outnumber men, is that the non-abusive causes are almost certainly more common among single mothers. Can’t afford medical care, a well stocked pantry, etc? Well, who makes up the largest percent of people in poverty? (Last I checked it was *drum roll* CHILDREN!)

It’s almost like these things intersect or something…

Bina
10 years ago

And I was being sarcastic too, to point out how flippantly feminists dismiss the issue.

And failing dismally at it, just as you’re failing dismally now.

Face it, dude: Infanticide is largely committed by males. And abortion isn’t infanticide. In fact it’s not even murder, as murder requires malice as well as forethought, and I have yet to see a woman terminate a pregnancy out of spite for a fetus.

But >yawwwwn< please, mansplain some more to us until the mods get tired and abort your presence here.

(And yes, that last bit WAS sarcasm.)

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

Oh Argenti, I love your stats. Your delicious facts. Oh, give them to me with unicorn blood, sanctified by the mother goddess! That is the best kind! Who would ever have thought that our lovely rev would’ve been lying?

RE: hellkell

I do and don’t want to know what these alleged English feminists are up to.

Terrible, terrible things!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

It takes a special sort of misogynistic assbag to think that neglect is worse than sexual abuse just because women are the ones doing it.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

LBT: all out of unicorn blood, sorry. I do have some male tears, would those work?

I love Hot Fuzz. I totally have a crush on Simon Pegg.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Remember when I imaginary friendzoned Simon Pegg? Those were the glory days of misandry.

(Still want to go drinking with him and Frost – just imagine the fights you’d have over the jukebox.)

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Yes, I do remember that, more Pegg for me. See misters, he’s not even standard hot!

A pub night with those two would destroy my liver, but it’d be worth it.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: hellkell

LBT: all out of unicorn blood, sorry. I do have some male tears, would those work?

*sigh* Damn unicorns, being so endangered. I suppose if I have to, I can work up a substitution, if anyone else could lend me a condom filled with semen and hot sauce. (I know one of you must have one!)

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

I admit, Pegg impressed me. Going into Hot Fuzz, I really doubted I could believe him as someone like Nicholas Angel, but he really sold his performance!

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

LBT: I have frozen, not fresh. That OK?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

LBT — I will give you stats and facts all you want, but you still can’t have the blood of any of my unicorns!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

We just watched World’s End recently. Highly recommended, and the Sisters of Mercy t-shirt was a perfect touch (for people of our generation who’re able to laugh at themselves).

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: hellkell

LBT: I have frozen, not fresh. That OK?

*sigh* This is going to be an AWFUL babycake. Oh well, I’ll just have to make the frosting SUPER-glittery then.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

(Did we succeed? Did stats and babycakes drive the pain in the ass away?)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Eh, I’m sure he’s back off to home base to tell them about how all the eevill feminists agreed with the feminists in England (ie, had no idea what he was on about).