Jessica Roy, a reporter for Time magazine covering A Voice for Men’s recent :”Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, found herself the target of a vitriolic tirade from AVFM maximum leader Paul Elam before she even sat down to write her account of her time amongst the MRAs.
Elam, evidently incensed about a handful of sarcastic remarks that Roy tweeted during the conference, denounced her as, among other things, a “hack,” “a liar and bigot” and a practitioner of “journalistic scumtardery,” whatever that is. Commenters on A Voice for Men happily joined in the hate, denouncing her as an “airhead,” a “disgrace and a liar,” “lil’ miss hair-o’or-her-eyes,” and a “little asshole [who] will look like a right nazi in five-to-ten years time.” Amazingly, no one pulled out the c-word. Evidently AVFMers are still on their best behavior.
Roy’s “What I Learned as a Woman at a Men’s Rights Conference” appeared on Time.com on Wednesday. Far from the hack job Elam and pals were predicting, her piece turned out to be a long, thoughtful and nuanced account that, while skeptical of AVFM and its brand of hateful nonsense, displayed considerable sympathy for some of the troubled men she met at the conference, men who could benefit from a movement that truly tried to offer solutions for men in difficulty instead of encouraging them to scapegoat feminists and women.
Reflecting on her discussions with several conference attendees, Roy wrote,
When you talk to someone like 68-year-old Steve DeLuca, the legitimate need to remedy some of the issues raised by men’s rights activists becomes more evident. A Vietnam veteran who was injured in combat, DeLuca spoke movingly to me about the two brothers he lost to suicide, and the unfathomable toll the high suicide rate among men can take. There are men out there, like DeLuca and [rape survivor] Brendan Rex, who have a real stake in the movement’s success. The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them.
So how did AVFM fans respond to this article? By defending their vitriol. On Time.com, several commenters denounced Roy as “bigot” and a “fascist,” and suggested that their “righteous anger” was the only appropriate response to the evils of feminism.
Never mind that the quote Markham was responding to came from a paragraph in which Roy wrote with sympathy about the suffering of male Veterans and rape survivors.
Meanwhile, an anonymous commenter received upvotes for this, er, nuanced analysis:
In a followup comment, “Guest” doubled-down, suggesting that Roy was a “stinky twit” and a “human monkey.”
Roy made clear that she learned a good deal at the conference. The defenders of AVFM’s vitriol seem to have learned nothing.
NOTE: Picture of monkey party borrowed from here.
Did someone say /periods/? Y’all shouldn’t get me started.
Ok, you got me started. So, turns out a lot of my current health issues can likely be pinned down to 2 culprits – I’m anemic and low on B12 from being a vegetarian who hasn’t been taking care of herself, and may have endometriosis which would explain the excruciating, excessively sanguinary menses wherein I wonder if I’ve been shot.
Oh, look. A FB page to talk about menses:
https://www.facebook.com/BloodyFeministsRUs
(Second try at posting. If the first attempt went through/was delayed by moderation, feel free to delete this one, but I got an error page)
Ah menopause, how I welcomed you!
And I was super-extra lucky and hit it at 30!
I think the hospital specialist was a little suprised when I cheered at having it confirmed after a year sans periods. I also escaped HRT, because they had no data on the long term use involved (12 years was mentioned), and it was thought to be complicit in my mother’s breast cancer.
I hate to tell you this Kittehserf, but at 43 I still occasionally get that pre-menstrual feeling.
Kitteh, my personal choice has always been “not constipated”. I have gotten into the habit of breakfasting (well, first-breakfasting) on muesli and coffee every morning, and for the first time in my entire forty-five year life I know the joys of the regular bowel movement. Oh, I still need to get to the toilet within a minute, but at least it’s sort of at an expected time. And I know absolutely nobody outside of the internet who will understand just how fantastic this is.
Regarding peri-menopause, I finally was reduced to charting my periods again (I stopped caring about blood-spotted underwear years ago) and felt a great sense of righteous grievance after proving that yes, the last two were three weeks apart. I rather feel that I have been cheated of five blood-free days, and if I find out who cheated me of them, they’re in a lot of trouble. I seem to forget from period to period about feeling achy beforehand, and then the blood shows up and I smack my forehead and go “Oh, right”. Stupid periods.
kittehserf, menopause teased me for years with irregular periods. Near the end, nine months went by without one and I was excitedly counting down when *bam* had to restart the timer. That was the last one, thank goodness. I was very fortunate to have no hot flashes or other other symptoms.
gilshalos, 30?!? Wow.
Yeah Auntie A, my gp refused to believe it until the hospital confirmed it. I have never wanted kids, so getting around 20 extra years free of bleeding and cramps (my periods were always painful) was wonderful news.
Sweet FSM, that dude does PR like Uwe Boll makes movies.
(Reconsiders…)
Then again, this may be unfair to Mr. Boll. I mean, I hear ‘Postal’ had its moments…
(Anyway, filing under ‘Own goal, from 50 yards or more’.)
I don’t know, I find thaty IBS comes in handy at times. Like when I’m at work, sitting with a particularly annoying customer. Anyone can say “Dude, you’re a total asshole.” I prefer to just fart as I’m walking away and let them experience the same discomfort I’ve been dealing with.
Great for insulters or grabbers at the tip rail too. IBS means never running out of ammo.
No actual comments on the latest MRA drivel, except for surprise that Elam managed to get almost 150 people to pay to attend his little conference.
Yeah you guys basically hit why the BEEP BOOPS are so depressing, they aren’t emotionless as evidenced by the level of anger that so often shows up when they post and not caring about others feelings is A BAD THING THAT NO ONE SHOULD BE PROUD OF.
And of course the SO RATIONAL types seem even more prone to completely screwing up statistics or blaming any numbers they don’t like on a conspiracy
Oh, I just need to add to the misandry by talking about periods and poop at the same time, because I’m having a literally shitty day! Vicious PMS-from-hell (I’ve got both twitchy hormones, and a Bipolar II with a tendency to cycle *really* fast when the hormones twitch), and food poisoning, all at once!
I love bloating, and having period cramps and mood-swings while I vomit out both ends. My BFFs right now are Immodium, pot, and Gatorade.
@damselindetech, endometriosis! 🙁 Friend I knew years ago had that, first time I heard of it. So. Much. Pain.
@gilshalos, hi, welcome! Have you had an Official Welcome Package yet?
Thirteen years after menopause (damn, my family would envy you, getting it at thirty) and you’re still getting that feeling? Buggrit!
In a PSA everyone wants to know, mine finally made a token appearance this morning. Don’t mind me, don’t hurry or anything, will ya, Red Menace? Though at least I’m not going anywhere today. 😛
@Ledasmom, righteous grievance high-five! Mind pulled the same stunt recently. Mind you it does occasionally make up for it by waiting six weeks or so.
I usually get twinges beforehand, not the get-me-a-hot-water-bottle-NOW type I had the other day, but enough to remind me. Then it’s time to go do a quick count on the calendar. I’ve marked mine since I stopped taking the Pill years back.
@Auntie Alias, yeah, one of my gfs had the same thing – nearly a year and then BOOM.
I just hope I don’t get hot flushes like my sister has, though at least I’m not sharing a bed with a cancer survivor who really feels the cold!
@Nova, I love this. Must learn how to fart on demand. For some reason my farts only get serious when I’m at home or standing browsing in a shop.
That’s Fribbie’s attitude (though with her it’s hyperthyroidism). Lying on human’s lap means emitting Stench of Death at regular intervals.
Aaand since it’s cold here by the computer and twinges are thinking about turning to gripes, I’mma getting my knitting and retiring to the fireside (well, gas heater, but who says heaterside?).
Winter Walker, ow and double yuck! 🙁
In NZ, one colloquialism for a period is “my mate”. I think it must come from the Maori word for sickness, but is pronounced the European way.
We have a lot of combined language phrases here. For years I thought half pai was half pie.
Is age of menopause onset at all connected to the age of having the first period? I was a late bloomer and didn’t get my period until I was 14 1/2 so at 34 I have a feeling that I’ve got many fertile years ahead of me. It sucks because I don’t want kids, but then again, women in my mostly northern European family tend to shrink after menopause (I’m now taller than my mom and didn’t used to be) so maybe it’s OK.
When I have irritable bowels I must do everything in my power NOT to fart. As soon as I do my ass will explode so, if my bowels are irritable and I need to fart, I must suppress it until I reach the toilet. Then everything comes at once.
I have premenstrual acne right now. I’m really, really not impressed.
Having the shits and a heavy period is, maybe without a doubt, the worst thing that’s ever happened to anyone in human existence.
Our younger son routinely passes stool that makes me wonder how he walks out of the bathroom. Oatmeal and whole wheat bread for breakfast is what’s responsible, as far as I know. I’ve had to plunge the toilet more since becoming a parent than in all my life up to that point.
I sometimes wonder how his older brother (whose heterosexuality has been verified) will deal with menstruation when he finally shares living space with a girlfriend/wife. He has had no exposure to the subject, as far as I know. I won’t be much help with that.
@WWTH: I did read one piece of research that suggested the two were linked, unfortunately so that females with early-onset menses would be older when they went through menopause. Really not fair.
Hah! I was so bad at home one weekend, mr had to go to the phone box down the street (this was 1976 in a rented house) and call the doctor to bring some pethidine. By the time she arrived I’d more or less passed out and she didn’t disturb me. For at least a decade, I lost so many sick days with pain I would regularly run out of the quite generous sick pay provided by my employer.
Unasked, unwanted medical hint from me. Anyone with severe menstrual problems or almost but not quite menopause problems should make sure the doctor tests your thyroid. If your noticeable hormones are acting up, it could be that your hidden hormones are also acting up – or down in most cases.
I was on HRT for a couple of years before they finally picked up that the problem was really hypothyroidism (Hashimoto’s disease in my case). Once I started reading about it I was beyond furious. Every single one of my menstrual-pregnancy-breastfeeding-menopause-“female” health problems was mentioned as associated with thyroid disease. There’s even a condition called gestational hypothyroidism. They observe/test for gestational diabetes, I don’t know why they don’t keep an eye out for hypothyroidism. I’d probably been chronically marginal and occasionally obviously hypothyroid for 20+ years by that time. As I said. Furious.
Menopause will be AWESOME when I hit it! Hopefully I might get it… well, not like that person who got it at thirty, but I might get lucky and get it relatively early, since our mother did. That said, my uterus is pretty merciful to me; I don’t feel hungry and need tylenol for the first day, and that’s about it.
RE: farkennel
David are you that scared of the feminist lobby that you will call out ALL men who feel in need of help?
You seem to presume that all men who feel in need of help think the MRM is the one to give it to them. I wouldn’t ask the MRM to piss on me if I were on fire, thanks.
RE: throwaway
Paraphrased: “I don’t know why she cried, and she should tell everyone in elaborate detail why she cried, but I’ll bet it’s because she’s a weak woman who doesn’t get to be a reporter! (BTW: I’m totally objective and asking an innocent question.)”
RE: Anarchonist
KKK’ians (is that a word?
The word you’re looking for is klansmen. They kinda had a thing about the letter K.
Mildlymagnificent,
Were you having bad cramps but light periods? That’s what I have. I’ve also gained weight in the past few years even though I haven’t been eating more than I used to and haven’t been more sedentary. My grandmother had hypothyroidism so I’ve wondered if that’s the case with me too. I didn’t realize thyroid problems and menstrual symptoms were connected though.
There’s an ugly, incestuous tangle of issues amongst adrenals, thyroid, and ovaries. Getting enough B vitamins and keeping my blood sugar under control has improved a whole host of health issues for me.
Oh, great. Though probably true – I got my period at 9 and it’s still ticking along regular as clockwork at 40.
mildymagnificent, whoa!
Pethidene – that’s it, that’s the drug I had when my kidneys were playing up that time.
I’ve got a vague feeling thyroid problems have been mentioned by my doctor as something to check wrt menopause. That, or I’m confusing doctors with vets.
My gf calls her period Aunt Flo – is that a general nickname for it in the US?
WWTH, yeah, the getting-shorter thing’s in my family, too. I’m still 5’4″ and Mum used to be taller than me, but now she’s shorter than I am.
I hope I don’t inherit my dad’s mum’s getting shorter genes, since I’m pretty short already.
Same here. Mr K’s gonna have to give up wearing those half-inch heels if I shrink!
I’m even shorter than you. If I end up that gran’s height I’ll need stepstools in every room (she ended up about 4ft10 or so, I was taller than her by the time my age hit double digits).