Categories
a new woman to hate a voice for men antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? doubling down douchebaggery evil women figurative nazis harassment imaginary oppression incoherent rage mantrum men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability playing the victim threats your time will come

Defenders of A Voice for Men tell Time magazine reporter "we have to SCARE you into listening," you "stinky … human monkey."

The High Council of Feminism holds a meeting.
The High Council of Feminism holds a meeting.

Jessica Roy, a reporter for Time magazine covering A Voice for Men’s recent :”Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, found herself the target of a vitriolic tirade from AVFM maximum leader Paul Elam before she even sat down to write her account of her time amongst the MRAs.

Elam, evidently incensed about a handful of sarcastic remarks that Roy tweeted during the conference, denounced her as, among other things, a “hack,” “a liar and bigot” and a practitioner of “journalistic scumtardery,” whatever that is. Commenters on A Voice for Men happily joined in the hate, denouncing her as an “airhead,” a “disgrace and a liar,” “lil’ miss hair-o’or-her-eyes,” and a “little asshole [who] will look like a right nazi in five-to-ten years time.” Amazingly, no one pulled out the c-word. Evidently AVFMers are still on their best behavior.

Roy’s “What I Learned as a Woman at a Men’s Rights Conference” appeared on Time.com on Wednesday. Far from the hack job Elam and pals were predicting, her piece turned out to be a long, thoughtful and nuanced account that, while skeptical of AVFM and its brand of hateful nonsense, displayed considerable sympathy for some of the troubled men she met at the conference, men who could benefit from a movement that truly tried to offer solutions for men in difficulty instead of encouraging them to scapegoat feminists and women.

Reflecting on her discussions with several conference attendees, Roy wrote,

When you talk to someone like 68-year-old Steve DeLuca, the legitimate need to remedy some of the issues raised by men’s rights activists becomes more evident. A Vietnam veteran who was injured in combat, DeLuca spoke movingly to me about the two brothers he lost to suicide, and the unfathomable toll the high suicide rate among men can take. There are men out there, like DeLuca and [rape survivor] Brendan Rex, who have a real stake in the movement’s success. The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them.

So how did AVFM fans respond to this article? By defending their vitriol. On Time.com, several commenters denounced Roy as “bigot” and a “fascist,” and suggested that their “righteous anger” was the only appropriate response to the evils of feminism.

DennisMarkham 1 day ago  "The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them."   Yes it can.  We are dealing with in irrational, incompassionate society.  When MRAs express their grievances with cool rationality or sadness, it just blows past people like you like a gentle breeze.  Only when we pack some sting does anyone actually listen.   Vitriol is the only way we've ever gotten society to listen.  The MRM has tried to be cool and calm for over 40 years and to no avail.  Maybe when you start taking male suffering seriously instead of dismissing it with "check your privilege" and "man up", that'll change.  But until then, you reap what you sow.  We have to SCARE you into listening.

Never mind that the quote Markham was responding to came from a paragraph in which Roy wrote with sympathy about the suffering of male Veterans and rape survivors.

Meanwhile, an anonymous commenter received upvotes for this, er, nuanced analysis:

Guest 1 day ago  @eltra Our hatred for fascist (mainstream) feminism is hardly rooted in misinformation.  You'd know that had you actually bothered to listen to Erin Pizzey or GirlWritesWhat speaking at the conference.   We ARE wronged because feminism is a bigoted, reverse-sexist, and female supremacist tyranny imposed on us by the male (and female) monkeys who puppeteer for popularity at the top of governments in the whole of the Western world.

In a followup comment, “Guest” doubled-down, suggesting that Roy was a “stinky twit” and a “human monkey.”

Guest 15 hours ago  Look. Based on both their ideology and their behavior, mainstream feminists ARE fascists. The reason they became POWERFUL PC fascists is because good men and good women have mostly been too faint hearted or deluded to condemn them.  Clearly, Biden, Obama and the stinky twit who wrote this article are human monkeys because they damn well do know better but the keep trotting out the same traitorous and misandrist monkey business year after year. It's time remove feminist monkeys from power and find a social cage wherein they can chatter bigoted nonsense to one another more harmlessly. That already happened to the KKK. In time, feminist bigots will also be banned from civil discourse rather than lauded as heroic victims of the patriarchy.  Vitriol is appropriate for fascist bigots who have been defecating an endless load of baseless bigoted vitriol themsexes since the monkey movement began in Seneca Falls. You also need to stop already with the false accusation of misogyny. Sadly, not all feminists are women but, happily, not all women are feminists. To loath the women and men who back Roy's officially coddled hate movement is perfectly REASONable. Be nice to see men pitch to help destroy Erin Pizzey's 'Evil Empire' so that bigots like Roy cannot mock, roidicule and silence anti-feminists and MHRMs on the pages of Time too.

Roy made clear that she learned a good deal at the conference. The defenders of AVFM’s vitriol seem to have learned nothing.

NOTE: Picture of monkey party borrowed from here.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

260 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
cloudiah
6 years ago

Dude, we’ve read them, and discussed them with David. As usual, MRAs lie.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Read the article you didn’t link to? Are we magic now?

Lex-man — yep. Elam won’t help anyone, and the red tape for groups that do help people can be a nightmare.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Ah, I see that JB has recruited some PR assistants.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Jackass…do you mind if I call you that? It fits. Anyway, we’ve been over this, so new shit has not exactly come to light for us, dude.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Every troll thinks they’ve found something new that we have not considered yet. Nope troll boy. Old news. You’ll have to find some other way to distract from JB’s meltdown.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

Okay, I’m going to admit that I’ve missed something. Can I ask what the deal is with MRAs calling David a pedophilia apologist? What is the actual comment he supposedly made? It’s obviously something horrible, perhaps even on par with wearing a T-shirt they don’t like.

And no, I’m not going to go searching for an article on AVFM. The awfulness there is so bad that I can’t get past the front page without vomiting, even with the kitty filter on. Believe me, I’ve tried. Besides, I trust the word of MRAs about as much as I trust my ability to not vomit while on AVFM.

Anyway, at least this necroed post is only a month old. At this rate, MRA trolls may join us in the present day*.

*Relatively speaking, of course. As far as social awareness goes, MRAs are still somewhere in the beginning of the 19th century.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

19 Century? Most of them seem to be more aiming for the Quest for Fire stage of history as a life goal as far as I can tell.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

Did “rev” spinnaker post a bunch of article titles, or are those just really awkward sentences?

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Soraya Chemaly, Al Jazeera, and the SLPC face tough questions over association with David Futrelle, child abuse apologist.

Bwahahaha…no they fucking don’t.

And nice job of trying to defend Warren Farrell, who actually DID say everything he’s accused of saying. As opposed to, you know, having made-up bullshit inserted in his mouth.

Try again, desperate troll…

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago

Those are links over at theantifeminist of Futrelle’s quotes from the 90’s.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

You really are dumbass. Go away, troll.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Uh, no, those are not links. Those are random sentences. They do not link to anything.

And “theantifeminist” sure does sound like an impartial and reliable source.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: emilygoddess

Did “rev” spinnaker post a bunch of article titles, or are those just really awkward sentences?

That’s what I was wondering. As far as I can tell, dude just babbled a bunch of nonsense and then requested we discuss it, and I don’t even know what the hell he’s linking to or what the fuck he’s talking about!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I do seem to remember him being banned before but can’t remember why.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Anti-feminism is sexist anti-intellectualism. It’s know-nothingism with a side order of “get back to the kitchen, bitch, and make me a sammitch!” I have no more use for it than I would for a supernumerary nipple.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

So much of the ‘rebuttals’ these assholes post just seem to be like big GOTCHA attempts. Like, “if we find out you did something, then your power will be broken and your criticisms of us will no longer have merit!”

Dudes, that’s. That’s not how it works.

cloudiah
6 years ago

I did some googling through our archives and can’t find any evidence that he was ever banned. I did, however, find this little quote from spinnaker:

Even Phil Donahue conceded that “saying more women kill children is like saying more men hit home runs.” I guess women kill children for sport.

So he has a history of misrepresenting the meaning of what other people are saying in order to criticize women/feminists.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

Perhaps we should dub him Rev Spin Maker?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Ah, now I remember. Didn’t he have some sort of obsession with Oprah too?

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

Feminists don’t deal with maternal child abuse. I’d say that’s worthy of criticism considering American women kill more of their own children than any other mothers in the industrialized world. And they’ve been blowing maternalDV against children off since the days of Donahue.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Even Phil Donahue conceded that “saying more women kill children is like saying more men hit home runs.” I guess women kill children for sport.

Knowing Phil Donahue, he surely said that in a moment of sarcasm, challenging the meaninglessness of anti-choicers’ and other sexists’ use of statistics. And that means that, as usual, the point has flown wayyyy over the troll’s head here.

But isn’t that just the way they usually operate? Decontextualize a quote, thus stripping it of meaning before twisting it to mean something that the person they’re defaming didn’t actually say? If they had to quote their ideological enemies verbatim and in context, as David does, they’d have a far rougher time of it.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

And heaven forfend they should cite actual, unbiased statistics without twisting THEM out of context, either.

cloudiah
6 years ago

The reason women commit most child abuse — which includes neglect, in addition to physical abuse — is that women are still the main custodians of children. Not because women kill or abuse women for sport, asshat.

Given that the most prominent MRA organization in existence lionized a man who hit his toddler hard enough to draw blood, I’m not sure you’re actually in any place to criticize feminists.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The spin doctor should just go reread the previous conversation, because I sure don’t have the patience to repeat it.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

Does anyone protest actually banning this doofus for good? He’s obviously a one-trick pony who would probably believe me if I said Oprah joked about eating a baby.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Nope. I’m not sure why he wasn’t banned the last time.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Waitasec, wasn’t he one of TS’s flying monkeys?

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

I vote for a ban, he’s not going to get interesting.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

Oh, ToySoldier can go piss on an electric fence. I didn’t even know the guy, and he was willing to toss me under the bus because male rape is serious business unless it happens to a feminist.

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago
Reply to  Bina

You’re all sounding like those rioting little censors in Toronto, silencing the opposition in the name of “equality.”

First, who’s anti-choice?

@ Bina: “Knowing Phil Donahue, he surely said that in a moment of sarcasm…” “And that means that, as usual, the point has flown wayyyy over the troll’s head here.”

And I was being sarcastic too, to point out how flippantly feminists dismiss the issue.

A cloudla: “The reason women commit most child abuse — which includes neglect [better described as abandonist, isolationist and opportunist malnurturing] to as , in addition to physical abuse [let’s not forget murder and between 25 % -30% of sexual abuse]— is that women are still the main custodians of children.[Oh, I’m sorry, that makes it OK then.] Not because women kill or abuse women for sport, asshat.” Apparently you missed the sarcasm too.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Learn to google, rev. We already had this exact same conversation with you. If for some reason you want to watch the re-runs you can do that by yourself.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

[let’s not forget murder and between 25 % -30% of sexual abuse]

Yeah, let’s not, child sexual abuse is a horrific thing, but if women commit 25-30% of sexual abuse, then that means men commit 70-75% of sexual abuse, correct?

And the whole point that women are the main custodians of children is that women spend more time around children, this having more opportunity.

IIRC, the studies that control for the time discrepancy find that women and men commit child abuse at roughly the same rate.

Which again, is horrible. Child abuse is horrible.

But it’s not quite the “women are eeeevilll!” gotcha you seem to think it is.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: Rev

You’re all sounding like those rioting little censors in Toronto, silencing the opposition in the name of “equality.”

Dude, this isn’t a public space and we aren’t the secret police. Telling you you’re an asshole on a website is not “silencing the opposition.” If so, it’s failing, because look at you! You’re still here! Blathering on! Completely unharmed except you know we think you’re an asshole, which you already knew.

[better described as abandonist, isolationist and opportunist malnurturing]

…? Why is that better than ‘neglect’? I’m a guy who was neglected as a kid. ‘Malnurturing’ just sounds like someone nurturing badly which… is not what neglect is.

*spreads hands*

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: sparky

I’m still impressed dude is spinning “women commit 25-30% of child sexual abuse” into a sign that women are apparently the huge problem there. Dude, everyone knows that there are women who sexually abuse. This is not groundbreaking to anyone.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Do you think he imagines all women saying “mwah hah hah” before each sentence?

Ally S
6 years ago

The explanation of the widespread child abuse committed by mothers isn’t an excuse for that abuse. It’s a way of explaining a phenomenon that MRAs would other twist to make it look like a symptom of matriarchal oppression.

Unimaginative
6 years ago

Do you think he imagines all women saying “mwah hah hah” before each sentence?

You mean we’re not supposed to be doing that? Damn it! I KNEW I should have got the new version of the manual, but the old one was cheaper, and it was only from last year!

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago
Reply to  cassandrakitty

@ LBT: “Oh, ToySoldier can go piss on an electric fence.”

Toysoldier on August 4, 2014 at 4:45 pm said:

“I read the article in question. The situation was not exactly as it has been described. Futrelle did defend the bookstore and did trash the police, however, he did not appear to condone the film. His defenders, in their consistent stupidity, did fail to note that “words written like this” imply a quote from someone not the author, whereas words written like this imply the words of the author.”

He’s actually doing a better job of defending Futrelle than most of you with your usual barrage of angst driven comments. Apparently Futrelle did call it, ‘not exactly family viewing’ which is hardly condemning it either. And where’s his big libel suit like he suggested for Jessica Valenti.

@ Sparky: “IIRC, the studies that control for the time discrepancy find that women and men commit child abuse at roughly the same rate.”

Citations please. Men are more likely to murder children older than five. Most younger than five is a female acting alone and less often with a man, usually not the father. Neonaticide, child murder in the first 24hrs. is 100% women. The word was first coined by Resnick in 1969 and still doesn’t register on a spell check.

Perhaps if we even acknowledged the word we could find a way to prevent it.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Another issue wih his rewording of neglect — it ignores parent(s) who are trying, but lack the resources and/or knowledge to properly provide for a kid. Which is, of course, not what’ she hind most cases of neglect, but it’s not abandoning or isolating or opportunistic anything.

——

Elsewhere I saw a link to one of the supposedly damning articles by David. Literally the only thing of any note, besides that I find Victorian sexuality an interesting topic, was what age range meant “girls” to the author he was quoting and if he was using the same one…but even if he meant GIRLS, it’d read as him saying that using coercive tactics on prostituted children won’t help anything. Far more likely, in context, was David saying that ADULT sex workers (often called “working girls”) shouldn’t be coerced. (Note, all coercion in this paragraph is of an anti-prostitution variety, as the article was about books about Victorian sexual mores and how early feminists would try to “save” sex workers)

I have really no idea how anyone managed to twist this into some pro-child-rape nonsense. No matter how you read it David’s point seems to have clearly been that coercion is a bad strategy. Seeing how it’s two pages about adult Victorians, with one use of the word “girls” — I’m gonna assume we’re talking about adults.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: rev

He’s actually doing a better job of defending Futrelle than most of you with your usual barrage of angst driven comments.

So? ToySoldier is still an ass. Just because he does something arguably useful doesn’t magically erase that.

Men are more likely to murder children older than five.

But women are the big problem. Right.

Neonaticide, child murder in the first 24hrs. is 100% women.

Uh. Yes. I would kind of expect that, since aren’t women usually the ones most with an infant within the first twenty-four hours? If more men gave birth, I would expect THEM to be more likely to do so.

Perhaps if we even acknowledged the word we could find a way to prevent it.

We already have a means of prevention. It’s called abortion.

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago

@ LBT: “I’m still impressed dude is spinning “women commit 25-30% of child sexual abuse”

No, that’s intrafamilial. Outside the home is much higher. Look at all the female school teachers we’ve been hearing about since Barbara Walters lionized Mary Kay Letourneau.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

100% eh? You got a citation for that?

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: Argenti

Exactly. There’s a WORLD of difference between, say, parents who’re financially unable to pay for a kid’s medical expenses and parents who just don’t notice their kid’s dragging around sick or injured. One is an economic problem. The other is… just creepy.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: rev

No, that’s intrafamilial. Outside the home is much higher.

Why should I believe you?

RE: Argenti

Oh please. Like rev’s about to start citing shit NOW.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

We’ve been over this shit with Rev before. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Citations please

You first, Rev. You’ve made a whole passel of unproven claims on this thread, and haven’t backed up one with a citation.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Again, we did all this last time. Can one of the mods please make it so that if Rev wants to watch the re-runs he has to do it by himself? Thanks.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

I swear, I’m really impressed. I’m seeing this dude talk about how men cause the majority of sexual violence, the majority of child murder over the age of five (when childhood after five is WAY LONGER than childhood BEFORE five), and all the while insisting that WOMEN are the big problem.

It’s almost beautiful in its surreality.

Also he thinks I should magically like ToySoldier now? Yeah, sorry buddy, a stranger who claims to be for male rape survivors but thinking I got my just deserts because male feminists lulz, I’m going to think he’s an asshole pretty much on after.

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago

“Perhaps if we even acknowledged the word we could find a way to prevent it.”

@ LBT: “We already have a means of prevention. It’s called abortion.”

Yes I know, and readily available birth control. Doesn’t seem to be working. Look at the meth-head that dumped her six or seven newborns in the garage?

Are you like those English feminists that want child murder legal for the first year, when women murder the most children? In America the odds of being murdered is greatest during the first year of life than at any other time.

That would take care of that whole accountability thing.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

Mod challenge for the irrev: he has to cite a statistic. A real one, not just some third-hand spin from something Woody would read.