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Defenders of A Voice for Men tell Time magazine reporter "we have to SCARE you into listening," you "stinky … human monkey."

The High Council of Feminism holds a meeting.
The High Council of Feminism holds a meeting.

Jessica Roy, a reporter for Time magazine covering A Voice for Men’s recent :”Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, found herself the target of a vitriolic tirade from AVFM maximum leader Paul Elam before she even sat down to write her account of her time amongst the MRAs.

Elam, evidently incensed about a handful of sarcastic remarks that Roy tweeted during the conference, denounced her as, among other things, a “hack,” “a liar and bigot” and a practitioner of “journalistic scumtardery,” whatever that is. Commenters on A Voice for Men happily joined in the hate, denouncing her as an “airhead,” a “disgrace and a liar,” “lil’ miss hair-o’or-her-eyes,” and a “little asshole [who] will look like a right nazi in five-to-ten years time.” Amazingly, no one pulled out the c-word. Evidently AVFMers are still on their best behavior.

Roy’s “What I Learned as a Woman at a Men’s Rights Conference” appeared on Time.com on Wednesday. Far from the hack job Elam and pals were predicting, her piece turned out to be a long, thoughtful and nuanced account that, while skeptical of AVFM and its brand of hateful nonsense, displayed considerable sympathy for some of the troubled men she met at the conference, men who could benefit from a movement that truly tried to offer solutions for men in difficulty instead of encouraging them to scapegoat feminists and women.

Reflecting on her discussions with several conference attendees, Roy wrote,

When you talk to someone like 68-year-old Steve DeLuca, the legitimate need to remedy some of the issues raised by men’s rights activists becomes more evident. A Vietnam veteran who was injured in combat, DeLuca spoke movingly to me about the two brothers he lost to suicide, and the unfathomable toll the high suicide rate among men can take. There are men out there, like DeLuca and [rape survivor] Brendan Rex, who have a real stake in the movement’s success. The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them.

So how did AVFM fans respond to this article? By defending their vitriol. On Time.com, several commenters denounced Roy as “bigot” and a “fascist,” and suggested that their “righteous anger” was the only appropriate response to the evils of feminism.

DennisMarkham 1 day ago  "The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them."   Yes it can.  We are dealing with in irrational, incompassionate society.  When MRAs express their grievances with cool rationality or sadness, it just blows past people like you like a gentle breeze.  Only when we pack some sting does anyone actually listen.   Vitriol is the only way we've ever gotten society to listen.  The MRM has tried to be cool and calm for over 40 years and to no avail.  Maybe when you start taking male suffering seriously instead of dismissing it with "check your privilege" and "man up", that'll change.  But until then, you reap what you sow.  We have to SCARE you into listening.

Never mind that the quote Markham was responding to came from a paragraph in which Roy wrote with sympathy about the suffering of male Veterans and rape survivors.

Meanwhile, an anonymous commenter received upvotes for this, er, nuanced analysis:

Guest 1 day ago  @eltra Our hatred for fascist (mainstream) feminism is hardly rooted in misinformation.  You'd know that had you actually bothered to listen to Erin Pizzey or GirlWritesWhat speaking at the conference.   We ARE wronged because feminism is a bigoted, reverse-sexist, and female supremacist tyranny imposed on us by the male (and female) monkeys who puppeteer for popularity at the top of governments in the whole of the Western world.

In a followup comment, “Guest” doubled-down, suggesting that Roy was a “stinky twit” and a “human monkey.”

Guest 15 hours ago  Look. Based on both their ideology and their behavior, mainstream feminists ARE fascists. The reason they became POWERFUL PC fascists is because good men and good women have mostly been too faint hearted or deluded to condemn them.  Clearly, Biden, Obama and the stinky twit who wrote this article are human monkeys because they damn well do know better but the keep trotting out the same traitorous and misandrist monkey business year after year. It's time remove feminist monkeys from power and find a social cage wherein they can chatter bigoted nonsense to one another more harmlessly. That already happened to the KKK. In time, feminist bigots will also be banned from civil discourse rather than lauded as heroic victims of the patriarchy.  Vitriol is appropriate for fascist bigots who have been defecating an endless load of baseless bigoted vitriol themsexes since the monkey movement began in Seneca Falls. You also need to stop already with the false accusation of misogyny. Sadly, not all feminists are women but, happily, not all women are feminists. To loath the women and men who back Roy's officially coddled hate movement is perfectly REASONable. Be nice to see men pitch to help destroy Erin Pizzey's 'Evil Empire' so that bigots like Roy cannot mock, roidicule and silence anti-feminists and MHRMs on the pages of Time too.

Roy made clear that she learned a good deal at the conference. The defenders of AVFM’s vitriol seem to have learned nothing.

NOTE: Picture of monkey party borrowed from here.

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damselindetech
6 years ago

Did someone say /periods/? Y’all shouldn’t get me started.

Ok, you got me started. So, turns out a lot of my current health issues can likely be pinned down to 2 culprits – I’m anemic and low on B12 from being a vegetarian who hasn’t been taking care of herself, and may have endometriosis which would explain the excruciating, excessively sanguinary menses wherein I wonder if I’ve been shot.

Oh, look. A FB page to talk about menses:

https://www.facebook.com/BloodyFeministsRUs

gilshalos
6 years ago

(Second try at posting. If the first attempt went through/was delayed by moderation, feel free to delete this one, but I got an error page)

Ah menopause, how I welcomed you!
And I was super-extra lucky and hit it at 30!
I think the hospital specialist was a little suprised when I cheered at having it confirmed after a year sans periods. I also escaped HRT, because they had no data on the long term use involved (12 years was mentioned), and it was thought to be complicit in my mother’s breast cancer.
I hate to tell you this Kittehserf, but at 43 I still occasionally get that pre-menstrual feeling.

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

Kitteh, my personal choice has always been “not constipated”. I have gotten into the habit of breakfasting (well, first-breakfasting) on muesli and coffee every morning, and for the first time in my entire forty-five year life I know the joys of the regular bowel movement. Oh, I still need to get to the toilet within a minute, but at least it’s sort of at an expected time. And I know absolutely nobody outside of the internet who will understand just how fantastic this is.
Regarding peri-menopause, I finally was reduced to charting my periods again (I stopped caring about blood-spotted underwear years ago) and felt a great sense of righteous grievance after proving that yes, the last two were three weeks apart. I rather feel that I have been cheated of five blood-free days, and if I find out who cheated me of them, they’re in a lot of trouble. I seem to forget from period to period about feeling achy beforehand, and then the blood shows up and I smack my forehead and go “Oh, right”. Stupid periods.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

kittehserf, menopause teased me for years with irregular periods. Near the end, nine months went by without one and I was excitedly counting down when *bam* had to restart the timer. That was the last one, thank goodness. I was very fortunate to have no hot flashes or other other symptoms.

gilshalos, 30?!? Wow.

gilshalos
6 years ago

Yeah Auntie A, my gp refused to believe it until the hospital confirmed it. I have never wanted kids, so getting around 20 extra years free of bleeding and cramps (my periods were always painful) was wonderful news.

AJ Milne
AJ Milne
6 years ago

Sweet FSM, that dude does PR like Uwe Boll makes movies.

(Reconsiders…)

Then again, this may be unfair to Mr. Boll. I mean, I hear ‘Postal’ had its moments…

(Anyway, filing under ‘Own goal, from 50 yards or more’.)

Nova
Nova
6 years ago

I don’t know, I find thaty IBS comes in handy at times. Like when I’m at work, sitting with a particularly annoying customer. Anyone can say “Dude, you’re a total asshole.” I prefer to just fart as I’m walking away and let them experience the same discomfort I’ve been dealing with.

Great for insulters or grabbers at the tip rail too. IBS means never running out of ammo.

No actual comments on the latest MRA drivel, except for surprise that Elam managed to get almost 150 people to pay to attend his little conference.

A Wolverine
A Wolverine
6 years ago

Yeah you guys basically hit why the BEEP BOOPS are so depressing, they aren’t emotionless as evidenced by the level of anger that so often shows up when they post and not caring about others feelings is A BAD THING THAT NO ONE SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

And of course the SO RATIONAL types seem even more prone to completely screwing up statistics or blaming any numbers they don’t like on a conspiracy

Winter Walker
6 years ago

Oh, I just need to add to the misandry by talking about periods and poop at the same time, because I’m having a literally shitty day! Vicious PMS-from-hell (I’ve got both twitchy hormones, and a Bipolar II with a tendency to cycle *really* fast when the hormones twitch), and food poisoning, all at once!

I love bloating, and having period cramps and mood-swings while I vomit out both ends. My BFFs right now are Immodium, pot, and Gatorade.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

@damselindetech, endometriosis! 🙁 Friend I knew years ago had that, first time I heard of it. So. Much. Pain.

@gilshalos, hi, welcome! Have you had an Official Welcome Package yet?

Thirteen years after menopause (damn, my family would envy you, getting it at thirty) and you’re still getting that feeling? Buggrit!

In a PSA everyone wants to know, mine finally made a token appearance this morning. Don’t mind me, don’t hurry or anything, will ya, Red Menace? Though at least I’m not going anywhere today. 😛

and felt a great sense of righteous grievance after proving that yes, the last two were three weeks apart.

@Ledasmom, righteous grievance high-five! Mind pulled the same stunt recently. Mind you it does occasionally make up for it by waiting six weeks or so.

I usually get twinges beforehand, not the get-me-a-hot-water-bottle-NOW type I had the other day, but enough to remind me. Then it’s time to go do a quick count on the calendar. I’ve marked mine since I stopped taking the Pill years back.

@Auntie Alias, yeah, one of my gfs had the same thing – nearly a year and then BOOM.

I just hope I don’t get hot flushes like my sister has, though at least I’m not sharing a bed with a cancer survivor who really feels the cold!

I don’t know, I find thaty IBS comes in handy at times. Like when I’m at work, sitting with a particularly annoying customer. Anyone can say “Dude, you’re a total asshole.” I prefer to just fart as I’m walking away and let them experience the same discomfort I’ve been dealing with.

@Nova, I love this. Must learn how to fart on demand. For some reason my farts only get serious when I’m at home or standing browsing in a shop.

IBS means never running out of ammo.

That’s Fribbie’s attitude (though with her it’s hyperthyroidism). Lying on human’s lap means emitting Stench of Death at regular intervals.

Aaand since it’s cold here by the computer and twinges are thinking about turning to gripes, I’mma getting my knitting and retiring to the fireside (well, gas heater, but who says heaterside?).

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Winter Walker, ow and double yuck! 🙁

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

In NZ, one colloquialism for a period is “my mate”. I think it must come from the Maori word for sickness, but is pronounced the European way.

We have a lot of combined language phrases here. For years I thought half pai was half pie.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Is age of menopause onset at all connected to the age of having the first period? I was a late bloomer and didn’t get my period until I was 14 1/2 so at 34 I have a feeling that I’ve got many fertile years ahead of me. It sucks because I don’t want kids, but then again, women in my mostly northern European family tend to shrink after menopause (I’m now taller than my mom and didn’t used to be) so maybe it’s OK.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

When I have irritable bowels I must do everything in my power NOT to fart. As soon as I do my ass will explode so, if my bowels are irritable and I need to fart, I must suppress it until I reach the toilet. Then everything comes at once.

I have premenstrual acne right now. I’m really, really not impressed.

Having the shits and a heavy period is, maybe without a doubt, the worst thing that’s ever happened to anyone in human existence.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

Our younger son routinely passes stool that makes me wonder how he walks out of the bathroom. Oatmeal and whole wheat bread for breakfast is what’s responsible, as far as I know. I’ve had to plunge the toilet more since becoming a parent than in all my life up to that point.

I sometimes wonder how his older brother (whose heterosexuality has been verified) will deal with menstruation when he finally shares living space with a girlfriend/wife. He has had no exposure to the subject, as far as I know. I won’t be much help with that.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@WWTH: I did read one piece of research that suggested the two were linked, unfortunately so that females with early-onset menses would be older when they went through menopause. Really not fair.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

I do remember one time I was apparently so white, a friend at work said I looked like I’d been got at by Vlad.

Hah! I was so bad at home one weekend, mr had to go to the phone box down the street (this was 1976 in a rented house) and call the doctor to bring some pethidine. By the time she arrived I’d more or less passed out and she didn’t disturb me. For at least a decade, I lost so many sick days with pain I would regularly run out of the quite generous sick pay provided by my employer.

Unasked, unwanted medical hint from me. Anyone with severe menstrual problems or almost but not quite menopause problems should make sure the doctor tests your thyroid. If your noticeable hormones are acting up, it could be that your hidden hormones are also acting up – or down in most cases.

I was on HRT for a couple of years before they finally picked up that the problem was really hypothyroidism (Hashimoto’s disease in my case). Once I started reading about it I was beyond furious. Every single one of my menstrual-pregnancy-breastfeeding-menopause-“female” health problems was mentioned as associated with thyroid disease. There’s even a condition called gestational hypothyroidism. They observe/test for gestational diabetes, I don’t know why they don’t keep an eye out for hypothyroidism. I’d probably been chronically marginal and occasionally obviously hypothyroid for 20+ years by that time. As I said. Furious.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Menopause will be AWESOME when I hit it! Hopefully I might get it… well, not like that person who got it at thirty, but I might get lucky and get it relatively early, since our mother did. That said, my uterus is pretty merciful to me; I don’t feel hungry and need tylenol for the first day, and that’s about it.

RE: farkennel

David are you that scared of the feminist lobby that you will call out ALL men who feel in need of help?

You seem to presume that all men who feel in need of help think the MRM is the one to give it to them. I wouldn’t ask the MRM to piss on me if I were on fire, thanks.

RE: throwaway

Paraphrased: “I don’t know why she cried, and she should tell everyone in elaborate detail why she cried, but I’ll bet it’s because she’s a weak woman who doesn’t get to be a reporter! (BTW: I’m totally objective and asking an innocent question.)”

RE: Anarchonist

KKK’ians (is that a word?

The word you’re looking for is klansmen. They kinda had a thing about the letter K.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Mildlymagnificent,

Were you having bad cramps but light periods? That’s what I have. I’ve also gained weight in the past few years even though I haven’t been eating more than I used to and haven’t been more sedentary. My grandmother had hypothyroidism so I’ve wondered if that’s the case with me too. I didn’t realize thyroid problems and menstrual symptoms were connected though.

Unimaginative
6 years ago

There’s an ugly, incestuous tangle of issues amongst adrenals, thyroid, and ovaries. Getting enough B vitamins and keeping my blood sugar under control has improved a whole host of health issues for me.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I did read one piece of research that suggested the two were linked, unfortunately so that females with early-onset menses would be older when they went through menopause.

Oh, great. Though probably true – I got my period at 9 and it’s still ticking along regular as clockwork at 40.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

mildymagnificent, whoa!

Pethidene – that’s it, that’s the drug I had when my kidneys were playing up that time.

I’ve got a vague feeling thyroid problems have been mentioned by my doctor as something to check wrt menopause. That, or I’m confusing doctors with vets.

My gf calls her period Aunt Flo – is that a general nickname for it in the US?

WWTH, yeah, the getting-shorter thing’s in my family, too. I’m still 5’4″ and Mum used to be taller than me, but now she’s shorter than I am.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I hope I don’t inherit my dad’s mum’s getting shorter genes, since I’m pretty short already.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Same here. Mr K’s gonna have to give up wearing those half-inch heels if I shrink!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I’m even shorter than you. If I end up that gran’s height I’ll need stepstools in every room (she ended up about 4ft10 or so, I was taller than her by the time my age hit double digits).

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

/sigh another annoying thing about ageing is that one’s metabolism slows down each decade. You have to eat less energy in order just to stay the same weight – eating the same amount will mean you put on weight.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

Metabolism “slowing down”? Might be true, but that might be because of an aging, inefficient thyroid or adrenal gland slowing down. It’s worth keeping on top of. If it goes on now, and it is the thyroid slowing down, you won’t be in any state to ask/ demand/ insist on your thyroid being checked by the time you’re old and not thinking straight. Not thinking straight is, in fact, one of the less charming effects of a crook thyroid. Not to mention the advantages of living a better, healthier life in the decades leading up to that.

(Haven’t got a reference, but I heard once of a research program of blood testing and standard checking of all inpatients in a nursing home and prescribing a restricted, predictable range of standard medications – thyroxine, anti-depressants, analgesics and the like, nowadays I’d also expect vitamin D. They found that even those most advanced in dementia were much happier and easier to deal with. By “standard” they meant treating these people exactly the same as if they were attending a general practitioner. Amazingly enough, properly treating pain, depression and a routine, pedestrian – rather than exotic or rare – hormonal deficiency made people’s lives better. Whoever wooda thunkit!)

BigMomma
BigMomma
6 years ago

TMI about periods warning

ugh…periods. I cannot wait for menopause. When I was younger, my periods would last 8 days and come every 4 weeks. The first day, I would spend curled up in ball, in agony. When I reached my 20s, they settled down a little but I always got horrendous PMT, physically and emotionally. After having had kids (one of the joys of pregnancy = no periods. But, hey, one month after birth, wham, bang..there’s my effing period again), my periods still are regular, but only last about 4 days, one of which I’d be better off just sitting on the loo, waiting for it to be over. Still get PMT, although milder, but jeez my 34GG boobs hurt

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

I’m even shorter than you. If I end up that gran’s height I’ll need stepstools in every room (she ended up about 4ft10 or so, I was taller than her by the time my age hit double digits).

That’s about the height Queen Victoria ended up at, too.

/sigh another annoying thing about ageing is that one’s metabolism slows down each decade. You have to eat less energy in order just to stay the same weight – eating the same amount will mean you put on weight.

Oh yeah. What pisses me off is that my appetite hasn’t decreased, and stuffed if I’m going to put up with being hungry. The other thing is thinking how my skin could look if I should lose weight. I’d rather stay a bit overweight with nice smooth skin than lose weight and feel like I was wearing crushed wrinkled linen all the time. That’s not a self-image issue I could deal with.

BigMomma, eight-day periods and bad with it – that is so. much. suckage. 🙁

One periods and zits: I remember a friend back when we were in our thirties saying, “Our mothers told us acne clears up when you’re out of your teens. They lied.”

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Yes re the acne, although having hormones even out past adolescence helps. Re pregnancy, some unfortunate women still menstruate throughout, normally. 🙁

Re thyroid and weight, I have had my thyroid checked a number of times and it has always been normal. Reduced requirement for energy as people ages is a recognised dietary fact, see for example http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/estimated-calorie-requirement which provides it as calories and http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/national/resource/balancing-energy-and-out#.U7kCubH1i0M which shows it as kJ.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

One of the reasons weight maintenance and loss becomes so hard with age is, yeah, as you age your caloric requirement goes down. You have to eat less and less progressively in order to maintain weight and even less than that in order to lose it as you age. It suuuuuucks. I love eating and I know I’m going to have to all but give it up. It also becomes harder to exercise and build muscle and all those lovely health complications associated with obesity become of real concern with age. This comic is so depressingly germane: http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/exercise_response/exercise_response.png

Lots of women will bleed throughout their entire pregnancies. It’s not menstruation though. When menstruation occurs during pregnancy it’s because insufficient hormones are being released to halt menstruation and the fetus is too small or in the wrong location (ie, ectopic pregnancy), leaving some of the endometrium free to go about business as per usual. By the third month of pregnancy though menstruation will have stopped if the pregnancy’s viable. Some women will just keep on bleeding though. It sucks.

gilshalos
6 years ago

My gp suspected a thyroid problem when my periods stopped at 30, but I was fairly sure he was wrong. He was touting Hyperthyroidism as a cause, but I knew someone who had had that, and my body shape and energy levels were all wrong for it. HYPO, perhaps, not but HYPER.
The politest euphemism for time of the month I’ve come across is ‘Having a visit from the Cardinal, dear.’

Thanks for the Welcome, Kittehs, I’ve been lurking here for a few months, and find it very comforting to remember that there are nice and intelligent people of all kinds when the level of stupid and hateful in the news gets too much.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

One of my girlfriends refers to her period as Moses. Red sea reference.

Nova
Nova
6 years ago

@kittehserf: I have serious, chronic gas when I have a bout of IBS, so I’m trying to hold it in most of the time at work anyway, as my diet sucks lately.  I deal with so much nonsense at work that it’s nice to fire back sometimes. It’s one of the few things I can do to get back at a rude or grabby customer and not get in trouble.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

gilshalos – interesting that periods still get called visits from the Cardinal – they were doing that in the seventeenth century!

Couldn’t agree more that it’s a relief to come here and talk to good, smart people. So much malicious fuckwittery in the world.

marinerachel, that’s a good name for it!

Nova, ow. Chronic gas sounds really uncomfortable at the very least. Probably a stupid question you’ve been asked 10000000000000 times already, but are there any pills that help you? I use Mintec for the odd occasions I’m uncomfortably gassy, or Gastrostop when it gets a bit too flood-tide. They’re both pretty good.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Hey Nova! Nice to see you around again, sorry to hear about your IBS issues. (That goes for everyone else here too)

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

Oh, dammit, three weeks again. Dammit, I’m not using the apparatus again; additional babies are not happening here; what do I need it for? Absolutely nothing, that’s what.
I prefer the XKCD form of period euphemism: It’s that “time of the month” when I’m “not at my best” because I’m “bleeding from my vagina”.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

I saw the First Moon Party commercial for HelloFlo menstrual supplies. When the girl told her mother, “I’m on my lady days,” well, I thought, never heard that one before.

Remember reading that menstruation used to be less prevalent (as in, before the Neolithic period*). Menarche happened later, and breastfeeding went on longer. Having more than one non-walking child at a time is a problem for nomadic hunter/gatherers, and prolonging nursing reduces the risk of another pregnancy happening too soon. So now, with menarche at ten or eleven, few pregnancies, short or no breastfeeding, and later menopause – more menstrual cycles than our ancestresses ever had to deal with. Ain’t civilization grand?

*Pun entirely intended.

duckbunny
6 years ago

Bears. Getting attacked by vicious bears.

As in, I don’t want to go anywhere today, because BEARS. I will come next week when the GODDAMN BEARS have left.

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

Fuck periods, anyway.

idledillettante
6 years ago

I just posted a story of my own in the red pill share your story sectio. Of he AVFM forums. Ive been lurking for a long time and finally I decided I didn’t care if I got banned; it’d be a relief for my sanity of I was kicked out of that crazy walled garden. I dated a closet MRA for awhile and it was crazy.

So I wrote up my story. How I’m harassed all the time, mostly; I chose not to share how my dad shouts me down and second guesses me, or how other men think catcalling is a compliment. I hope I get banned forthwith from AVFM. I don’t think I’ll change anyone’s opinion by sharing my story there.

Sincerely
Caroline

pecunium
6 years ago

And Kay gives us an idea of how much money Elam clear in the Cop-Con:

The Detroit protesters did win one battle in the sense that they imposed a great deal of inconvenience on participants (constant shuttling between motels and the venue), not to mention $10,000 for a police presence that wasn’t necessary, since the protesters’ objectives of causing financial and logistical hardship had already been achieved

So… Elam gets a quick $23,000; and that’s a financial hardship.

pecunium
6 years ago

Here’s an idea, and it’s super simple. Get the fuck out of our way.

Which means, in English, abolish feminism. Because the things feminism does, which “stand in their way” are things like making VAWA, the Ledbetter Act, Reproductive Rights, The Best Interest of the Child Model of Child Custody, Affirmative Consent, Non-consent = Rape, etc. the law/culture of the land.

Which are the the things they are against.

In short, Diz entire argument is, “get back in the kitchen”.

pecunium
6 years ago

throwaway: I believe these sorts of sarcastic remarks didn’t use to be considered acceptable by reporters aiming for objective, neutral, insightful reporting.

Speaking as someone who used to practice the profession of journalism, you are mistaken; in both your understanding of what journalism is, what “objective” means, and how neutrality factors in.

Objective doesn’t mean (no matter what groups with agendae would like you to think) one has to regurgitate the claims of anyone who wants some press as if it were factual. Objective means looking at the facts, and treating them as facts. Sometimes the facts show one side of the argument is wrong. To pretend they aren’t is to mislead the pubic.

Neutral means the reporter ought not have a dog in the fight; or that if they do have some personal interest in what is being covered, they make it plain to both their editors, and their readers.

Reporters are not automatons, they are people. As such they cannot be completely neutral about anything contentious about which they have knowledge; which is why the various cultural ideals the press built came to be, so the reader could have some faith they weren’t being lied to by a mouthpiece for some outside interest; masking itself as “honest reporting”.

I also wonder just what it was she heard at this conference that was so shocking, so damaging, as to make her cry. If she truly did end up crying in response to the speeches there, I question her temperament and her fitness to be a reporter in general, much less a reporter trying to cover the men’s rights movement.

If you question what, at a conference where women were being blamed for all the evils of the word, and their struggle for equality was being declared long over; and perverted to a power-mad tyranny destroying society and the male half of the human race; by people who have gloried in being abusive to women… a conference where one of the leading figures said doxxing and terrorising people; in particular women (and women of groups to which Roy belongs) might make someone cry, I question your basic skills of comprehension and your humanity.

As to the last sentence about her fitness, again, you don’t know what the job entails.

pecunium
6 years ago

Brooked: Like Woody, Throwaway is questioning Roy’s professionalism because of the conversational tone of her tweets while seeing nothing amiss with the AVfM crew’s twitter bomb-throwing. That must require a whole lot of willful ignorance.

Don’t you see, Roy is part of The Press, and needs to be held to a higher standard; JB, Esmay, et al. are Activists!, and so can be more vitriolic (but, of course, were they Feminist Activists, that would be different).

Lex-Man
Lex-Man
6 years ago

In fairness there are probably a lot of messed up people in the world in need of some kind of help. Sadly a lot of them fall into some kind of cult like sphere of influence that doesn’t really help them. I guess there is just a shortage of places that will truly help people and a lot of the places that will can be horribly bureaucratic and expect people to jump through a ton of hoops before doing anything useful.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Dude, you’re either WAY late or WAY early for Make Up Shit About Futrelle day. It’s traditionally celebrated in January.

But it’s nice to see that all MRAs like to engage in libel.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

I thought this asshole was banned.

Lies are pretty much all the MRM has to work with. Some human rights movement.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Gotta love that fat-shaming at the end.

“You’re a pedophile apologist and you’re fat!”

Because both are equally bad, I guess. /sarcasm

revspinnaker
revspinnaker
6 years ago

Considering your rapid fire attack response, did any of you actually READ the article? It was published June 20, 2014. Just spotted something on it over at AVFM today.

I suggest you read them before you defend Futrelle on this one.