Jessica Roy, a reporter for Time magazine covering A Voice for Men’s recent :”Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, found herself the target of a vitriolic tirade from AVFM maximum leader Paul Elam before she even sat down to write her account of her time amongst the MRAs.
Elam, evidently incensed about a handful of sarcastic remarks that Roy tweeted during the conference, denounced her as, among other things, a “hack,” “a liar and bigot” and a practitioner of “journalistic scumtardery,” whatever that is. Commenters on A Voice for Men happily joined in the hate, denouncing her as an “airhead,” a “disgrace and a liar,” “lil’ miss hair-o’or-her-eyes,” and a “little asshole [who] will look like a right nazi in five-to-ten years time.” Amazingly, no one pulled out the c-word. Evidently AVFMers are still on their best behavior.
Roy’s “What I Learned as a Woman at a Men’s Rights Conference” appeared on Time.com on Wednesday. Far from the hack job Elam and pals were predicting, her piece turned out to be a long, thoughtful and nuanced account that, while skeptical of AVFM and its brand of hateful nonsense, displayed considerable sympathy for some of the troubled men she met at the conference, men who could benefit from a movement that truly tried to offer solutions for men in difficulty instead of encouraging them to scapegoat feminists and women.
Reflecting on her discussions with several conference attendees, Roy wrote,
When you talk to someone like 68-year-old Steve DeLuca, the legitimate need to remedy some of the issues raised by men’s rights activists becomes more evident. A Vietnam veteran who was injured in combat, DeLuca spoke movingly to me about the two brothers he lost to suicide, and the unfathomable toll the high suicide rate among men can take. There are men out there, like DeLuca and [rape survivor] Brendan Rex, who have a real stake in the movement’s success. The paranoia and vitriol of its leaders can’t possibly do anything for them.
So how did AVFM fans respond to this article? By defending their vitriol. On Time.com, several commenters denounced Roy as “bigot” and a “fascist,” and suggested that their “righteous anger” was the only appropriate response to the evils of feminism.
Never mind that the quote Markham was responding to came from a paragraph in which Roy wrote with sympathy about the suffering of male Veterans and rape survivors.
Meanwhile, an anonymous commenter received upvotes for this, er, nuanced analysis:
In a followup comment, “Guest” doubled-down, suggesting that Roy was a “stinky twit” and a “human monkey.”
Roy made clear that she learned a good deal at the conference. The defenders of AVFM’s vitriol seem to have learned nothing.
NOTE: Picture of monkey party borrowed from here.
From Dennis Markham comment:
” The MRM has tried to be cool and calm for over 40 years and to no avail.”
Really? When was this cool and calm period,rather that ‘we tried it for over 40 years’ I think he means they try to be cool and calm for a nano second every 40 years. Next time they might try a millisecond if someone’s head doesn’t explode first.
How the heck does feminism “block all attempts for men to take the initiative”? Really, this is the best they can come up with as to why they haven’t done a single real-world thing to improve men’s lives–it’s all the fault of the feminists “blocking” them??
I guess Feminism is systematic cock blocking…?
Seriously, do these guys not realize that feminism had and has opposition at every turn? It’s not like the whole world rolled over as soon as feminism showed up.
Because nothing says ‘we’re a human rights movement’ like “we have to SCARE you into listening” you ” stinky…human monkey”.
estraven, I think it’s like how racists accuse others of bigotry when they’re called out. Nothing means anything to these chumps so they just use whatever words pop into their heads. They also claim this is all fine as they are fighting a war (against feminists?) and can therefore apparently do and say whatever, as long as they’re “winning”.
I’m so sorry ally s i can’t believe there are people like that out there
Here is a cute puppy for you.
http://www.imgion.com/white-cute-puppy/
I think you will find, WatermelonSugar, that a woman merely has to cry on the street to be given everything her little grumpy heart desires. Only tru-men* with really real important goals* face opposition.
“More that feminism blocks all attempts for men to take the initiative.”
Explain the success of veterans organizations which caters largely to a male population (only 7% of the US veterans are women). Maybe it has to do with legitimacy and public trust in where the money go. I know I give various veteran groups money every year, no question asked. Does not at all conflict with my feminist views. Weird :/
::waves:: Welcome, ginatingles! 🙂
What has MRM activism achieved? If they’ve frightened, harassed, stalked, attacked one woman, they probably call that an achievement. Terrorising women is all they’re really about, and any men who are actually looking to them for help with real issues are going to be either conned or disillusioned.
For fuck’s sake, these guys have zero interest and no ideas how to deal with homelessness, work fatalities, suicide, men’s health issues and prison rape. They just name check them because it’s a bad look to focus solely on rape charges, domestic violence, restraining orders, and divorce. They piggy backed on a pre-existing father’s movement, with it’s complaints about family court and child support. They have all sorts of things to say about rape but it’s mostly rage over the idea of rape culture and obsession with false accusations. I’d actually love to see what genius criticisms they are going to levy at Haven, because they feign interest in male victims but are really interested in not seeing men prosecuted for DV.
How can feminists get out of the way of men’s rights when they have no ideas independent of their obsessive anti-feminism.
@brooked, I would think they would have to firstly AT LEAST put forth some actual ideas and plans before “feminists” could stand in their way. What exactly are feminists stopping?
Going back to CAFE, for those who aren’t familiar with Barbara Kay, you’re in for a treat*.
*headache
Oops, didn’t link the article. My bad:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/06/30/barbara-kay-at-pride-toronto-militant-feminist-dogma-trumped-rights/
@damselindetech, I think I injured an optical nerve rolling my eyes so hard reading that article. And the comments….they are just absurd. Apparently “feminists” first reaction to their gyno-centric worldview being challenged by a man is to accuse him of being gay, therefore gay men should not team up with feminists. Riiiiiiight…
Yeah, I just… like… wut?
@damselindetech
You listen to Kay’s presentation at the con? It was disgusting. I got through 2/3rds of it and had to turn it off.
I think by “Get out of our way” he means “Go away altogether”.
Feminism does nothing to impede attempts to improve work place safety, availability of mental health treatment, fair wages, affordable housing and domestic crisis support. I don’t know of feminists who support the draft or who don’t want women to also be able to serve in the military. Those are all things feminists care about. Those are progressive causes. It’s also impossible to be in the way of efforts they are not making. Do they want us to tuck in their shirts, comb their hair and drop them off with lunch boxes and instructions and then scuttle back home to bake them pies in our pearls, happy that we are no longer burdened with the vote? Because that’s what it sounds like they want.
I’m sure they’d still get nothing done but shrieking slurs and complaining that not hand feeding them the pie is misandry and somehow, getting nothing done would still be our fault.
The truth is, their “movement” is doing what is was designed to do. It gives misogynists a place to spew hate and it line’s Elam’s pockets.
The vitriol and paranoia does accomplish something: it makes the MRA’s look like a reactionary paranoid hate group. I am guessing that this is what they really want.
I read “get out of our way” as an implicit physical threat.
@Lea
This.
The hate for feminists and women in general is not an inefficient way to go about their goal of helping men. “Helping men” is a way of justifying their attacks on people they hate. The hate is the end goal.
So upshot of the media coverage of the MRM convention is:
1) their small, boring, poorly attended convention makes national news
2) some journalists actually buy some of their crap about helping men
Sounds to me like this is the best case scenario for these idiots. It really does. But apparently, what they were expecting was for the news media to go all Woody on them. Nothing but uncritical praise will do.
The weird thing is, if they don’t get this praise, they go out of their way to demonstrate exactly why they don’t deserve any.
“She gave them more benefit of the doubt than I would have given.”
I also thought her article was overly generous towards the MRM
<blockquote<And I’m beginning to come around to the idea that these men *do* need a hand from the feminist movement in general. Not because we owe them a thing, but because these are real humans, experiencing real suffering, and their own movement doesn’t seem ready to do shit all for them.
The problem here is that it’s pretty hard to reach out to someone who keeps threatening to hurt you. Our angry friend who’s quoted above may be correct in that threatening people gets their attention, but it doesn’t encourage them to help you, it encourages them to avoid you for their own safety.
I also find it hard to believe that anyone could nod along to the stuff written about women on AVFM without hating us, regardless of what legitimate issues they might have.
@Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
I don’t know if brevity is the soul of wit, but is the soul of your dead-on autopsy of the AVfM Conference.
Pretty much.
@Throwaway, thanks for your totally unbiased concern trolling. But I’m not seeing the part where she said she was crying. Maybe I missed it in all the other crap I’ve read today.