One last AVFM Conference update, with links to two more stories about that historic event.
The first, a gently skeptical Washington Post story by Monica Hesse titled, with a certain irony, “Men’s rights activists, gathering to discuss all the ways society has done them wrong.”
The whole thing is worth reading. My favorite bit:
One presenter, a military veteran speaking on the treatment of veterans returning from war, put up a PowerPoint slide alleging that 70 percent of men returning from war get divorced, and 90 percent do so within five years. When asked about the source of this statistic, he said, “That particular statistic is from my personal observations. I’m just speaking here as a dude.”
Ah, the prestigious Journal of Statistical Dudeness!
The second, well, it’s a bit more disturbing. DarkHorseSwore – a regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit who raised money to go to Detroit to cover the convention only to be turned away at the door – managed to finally get an audience with some of the conference attendees and organizers – after the convention, as they celebrated at a bar and then in a hotel lobby. She got this access because none of them knew who she was. (Eventually Dean Esmay showed up and had her escorted off the premises.)
Now DarkHorseSwore has set up a website – DarkHorseSwore.com – and has started posting about the strange 5 ½ hours she spent amongst the AVFMers. She tells the tale of a strange encounter with one of the Honey Badgers and then an even stranger tale of an even stranger encounter with an old man and his camera. You’ll have to go read it. Be warned: It’s creepy as hell.
Oh, and she picked up some amazing conference swag as well. And by “amazing” I mean “possibly the worst conference swag I’ve ever seen, I mean, what the hell, and also why are they all beige?”
“Even if they weren’t dangerous on a wider societal influence level, it’s pretty much just a matter of time before one of their followers goes after one of their official female rage targets with a gun.”
QFT! He’s got down the right wing “it’d be logical if [bad thing] happened, now, I’m not saying do that, but I totally understand why someone would”.
I think that MRAs and AVfM become dangerous because they are a self fulfilling rage group that offers no solutions.
They get bad press, and it confirms their belief that the “Evil Empire” is out to get them (not acknowledging that they might be deserving of bad press). High-profile rape cases are unable to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a rape, and it confirms that the majority of rape cases are false (not that it is difficult to prove or that false accusations are a rare occourance). Protesters chose or chose not to show up at their events, and either way it proves that evil feminists are trying to suppress their free speech (not that said protesters are exercising their free speech or are putting their safety first).
Meanwhile, the movement as a whole offers no solutions. I have been trying really hard to find any MRM-supported information on men’s mental health, but all I have been able to find is that therapy is a function of the Evil Empire and that men heal by doing…without ever examining any underlying issues.
So these MRAs become foamy at the mouth with rage, and then the very same beast that stoked them to this state offers them not solutions, but more things to become angry about. They speak against violenc, but welcom it online in the form of harassment and doxxing, removing humanity from the equation.
So it’s rage plus no outlet plus disassociated violence. It’s a toxic and unhealthy combination–for both takers of the Red Pill and those on their environment.
I will also say I am nervous that they are getting coverage on Fox News. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.
@Ken L.
What slayed me was his outrage that it’s “4 times higher than our entire operating budget worldwide” as though AVFM’s “social activism” is legitimate; e.g., JB calling people whores on Twitter.
@Auntie
“the 4 times” thing made me really laugh just now because I thought being that the AVFM budget is somewhere between nothing and the change they found in the sofa, the kids selling lemonade in front of their house have 2 times AVFM budget.
@Ken S.
“God, help me, not only do I have to help fight injustice in general but I have to now redeem my favorite head wear this fedora thing blows me mind. I had no idea that it was linked with MRAs. this is like finding out about hipsters and mustaches. to be fair ti hipsters their to ironic to hate anything. I wear fedoras and have a mustache because I want to since i was little, not to be identified with some movement. in even in the smallest most unimportant ways, the MRM can ruin everybody’s fun.”
I too has a sad that fedoras have become synonymous with these types of groups. My son and I love wearing fedoras. Time to take them back!
Signal boost for Auntie Alias’s link on Farrell blaming Elliot Rogers’s mother. Remember that this is the intellectual heavyweight of the MRM, such as it is, and its most compassionate face. It’s disgusting:
http://animalnewyork.com/2014/mens-rights-speaker-discusses-mothers-mass-murderers-responsible-mass-murders/
He got called out on Rogers specifically, but I’m curious to know if what he said is even true more broadly. I seem to recall a lot of school shooters coming from middle-class, two parent homes. I haven’t seen any kind of formalized study, though.
Apologies if I missed something and am totally off mark, I don’t have time to read through all of this and the last few days’ stuff yet, but a thought/hypothesis I’m having about the camera guy and the hairy arm-stroking guy:
It seems like Elam et al. may have had some degree of success in selling the idea that this conference, and their group/movement generally, really is something other than rampant anti-feminism, and as a result have attracted some men who aren’t the usual angry conspiracy-theorist misogynists. Unfortunately for them, what that “something other” seems to be getting interpreted as is some sort of combination support group and social club for, for lack of a better way of putting it, lonely dudes. I’m sure A Voice For (Human) Men will be thrilled, or will pretend to be, at the presence of anyone not already in their cult, but the newcomers they’re getting aren’t, like, ‘regular joe’ types open to being convinced by the rhetoric. The attempt at a ‘kinder, gentler’ (re)branding for this conference seems to have somewhat inadvertently attracted a new audience of odd, lonely, troubled guys drawn in more by the promise of acceptance than anything else. If it ends up being anything other than a small minority of anomalous oddballs it should be interesting to see how this might affect the culture of the manosphere. Are we going to see something like a rash of AVFM forums bans for people who get off topic by constantly trying to bring the discussion around to something like their collection of photographs of fire alarms?
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I hope so.
Sorry, I got your name wrong Ken. I’m not so good at this reading thing today. Too much time staring at a computer screen at work lately.
This is totally off topic, but having had Detroit as ground zero for the MRAs, I just wanted to say that in two weeks hubby and i will be attending Netroots Nation in that city, seeing people like Elizabeth Warren giving a keynote speech and such. The conference will be at Cobo Hall. Spouse and I are looking forward to dinner in Greektown, riding the People Mover, and walking the riverfront, as well as seeing inspiring panels and participating in workshops. (If you don’t know, Netroots Nation is the annual convention for people who are members of The Daily Kos community on the intertubes.) This just may cleanse the city of the recent evil!
@Toddles Manboob, esq.
I honestly figured they’d sold so few tickets that they were handing them out for free to random strangers just to fill the hall. That might not be the case with the creepy dude, though, since it sounded like he was from out of town.
I was rather surprised when someone argued with Farrell about Elliot Rodger’s father. Rather impertinent of him to question the grand-pappy of the MRM!
Am I the only person who’s actually really creeped out by that “Kiss Abuse Goodbye” chapstick? I don’t know, it just seems so… flippant.
@LBT
I think it’s pretty creepy, too. And I find I ironic that the woman who spent most of her lecture talking about how the vanity of women is destroying men gave out a beauty product as a token.
That Honey Badger button says, “He wouldn’t care, that’s what!” and it’s just general Cafe Press merchandise. A friend of mine had one of those buttons a few years ago when everyone was so taken by the Youtube video that put honey badgers in the limelight for a while. Meaning the animal, not those confusing women.
Hello,very long time lurker and nearly new commenter here.
I think I know what that necklace thingy is supposed to be.It’s a symbol of the fucked up disorganised mess that is the men’s rights movement.
There’s an old saw among Social Justice Warriors that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Couple it with laughter, and there’s not a lot cheesemites like Elam and Co. can do to counteract it. It seems clear that the more people hear about what the MHRM is about, the less influence they have.
Robert — it really is though, and thank you for reminding me to go stir the last of the fish tank stuff that’s being sunlight’ed and see if it can come back inside!
Tiko72 — hi! I’m sure a welcome package will be by shortly, I think there might be one in the last page even 🙂 That aside, your theory is as good as any at this point!
“I was rather surprised when someone argued with Farrell about Elliot Rodger’s father. Rather impertinent of him to question the grand-pappy of the MRM!”
Yeah my brain basically went “huh? Questioning if the mother’s to blame?” And then I realized that dude might’ve been trying to say that Rodger’s father kicking him out was harmful (possible) but then that’d be blaming a man!!!1!!1!1!!111!!
Horrid views aside, Farrell is far from an impressive orator.
@Save The Queen
no worries my friend
Thanks Argenti Aertheri
I’m hoping to be a bit more confident and start commenting more.
I can’t quite put my finger on just what it is that is creeping me out, but jared stinks of socks to me.
Took the words right out of my brain! Seriously, it’s like they’re trying their hardest to be so confusing and bizarre that anyone outside their strange little movement just gives up trying to reason with them. And DarkHoreSwore’s commentary is excellent, but it makes me shrivel up and die inside. SO MUCH CREEPY. The elderly photographer being a creepbeast with “Blurred Lines” possibly still playing in the background is the crowning moment of gross for me.
@ thebewilderness
Or of something, anyway, which is why I’m not engaging.
*horse! Not “hore.” Though in the context of dealing with the MRM, the typo is slightly amusing.
@jared
I don’t think AVfM is dangerous at all. Just get a load of the person they selected as their PR representative. They are too inept and ridiculous to be dangerous. I mean seriously get a look at the person they selected for their PR management.
@bewilderness
I don’t know what to say, so I withdrew.
@tiko72
Good eye!
@Gunter
I like how a honey badger (TB, I assume) acted as if it’s super-edgy and rebellious to like the second biggest hit song of 2013. That’s so honey badger (AVfM edition).
::several gasps:: She doesn’t fear North America’s all-powerful Feminist Overlords!?! Such bravery. ::even more gasps::