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One Last Damn AVFM Conference Update: Man With a Camera Edition

It wasn't this guy.
It wasn’t this guy.

One last AVFM Conference update, with links to two more stories about that historic event.

The first, a gently skeptical Washington Post story by Monica Hesse titled, with a certain irony, “Men’s rights activists, gathering to discuss all the ways society has done them wrong.”

The whole thing is worth reading. My favorite bit:

One presenter, a military veteran speaking on the treatment of veterans returning from war, put up a PowerPoint slide alleging that 70 percent of men returning from war get divorced, and 90 percent do so within five years. When asked about the source of this statistic, he said, “That particular statistic is from my personal observations. I’m just speaking here as a dude.”

Ah, the prestigious Journal of Statistical Dudeness!

The second, well, it’s a bit more disturbing. DarkHorseSwore – a regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit who raised money to go to Detroit to cover the convention only to be turned away at the door – managed to finally get an audience with some of the conference attendees and organizers – after the convention, as they celebrated at a bar and then in a hotel lobby. She got this access because none of them knew who she was. (Eventually Dean Esmay showed up and had her escorted off the premises.)

Now DarkHorseSwore has set up a website – DarkHorseSwore.com – and has started posting about the strange 5 ½ hours she spent amongst the AVFMers. She tells the tale of a strange encounter with one of the Honey Badgers and then an even stranger tale of an even stranger encounter with an old man and his camera. You’ll have to go read it. Be warned: It’s creepy as hell.

Oh, and she picked up some amazing conference swag as well. And by “amazing” I mean “possibly the worst conference swag I’ve ever seen, I mean, what the hell, and also why are they all beige?”

A wooden necklace thing, symbolizing who the hell knows what!
A wooden necklace thingy, symbolizing who the hell knows what!
A "What Would Honey Badgers Do?" button!
A “What Would Honey Badgers Do?” button!
And last but not least, a Shrink for Men chapstick! It's minty!
And last but not least, a Shrink 4 Men chapstick! It’s minty!

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Isabelle
Isabelle
10 years ago

Its a Rorschach woodblot!

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
10 years ago

On the god-awful necklace thing:

My vote is that it’s a next-gen Pokemon. It’s Misandrite, the evolved form of Misandraby. It’s a psychic-fairy type and is famous for its attack Mansplainatoin, which stuns and confuse the opponent.

That’s my best guess, at least.

tealily
tealily
10 years ago

Jared,

Con artists are a dime a dozen in this world. They are nothing new.

Elam is not an entrepreneur and he’s not running a corporation. (Didn’t he lose that for not paying taxes?) While he may be managing a good living conning the deluded chumps at AVfM, I don’t believe for a moment he has the “money and power” you think he does. Whatever media coverage he got for last weekend he had to instigate. In short, nobody really cared.

And speaking of last weekend, they can say whatever they want over at AVfM about the conference, but was a joke, and everyone knows it.

I live in metro Detroit and have worked in the auto industry for over 20 years, which is still mostly male dominated. Between the white collar and blue collar workers, who mostly lean conservative, this is probably the biggest amenable demographic for MRAs to engage (which I’m sure is why he decided to have it here in the first place) and they couldn’t even do that. They should have been in a huge hall with at least a few thousand just from this area alone. Instead, they pulled 150-200 internationally. That is not power, and that is not success and business savvy. They have been trying to pull this off for years and to finally do it to those kind of numbers is fucking hilarious.

Which brings me to my last point. I’m not sure why you think it means something that Elam has lasted so long running his blog, but it doesn’t. Everyone who has gone before has managed to figure out that most men probably agree with a handful of positions of the MRAs, but that most of what they have to say is bullshit.

I’ve been listening to men talking among themselves at work for over 2 decades, and most of them love and care about the women in their lives. They also like the money their wives and girlfriends are bringing in to afford the cottages, jet skis, boats, and hunting trips most of them like so much. They are also good fathers who love their daughters and would probably kill any man that did to them what many MRAs advocate.

So, not sure why you are overestimating Elam, or what you think we’re all supposed to be doing while we’re “worrying” about him, but I don’t buy it.

tealily
tealily
10 years ago

Not sure why I’m awaiting moderation, but ok.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
10 years ago

There is a great book, The Lifelong Activist, by Hillary Rettig that you may want to check.

LOVE Hillary Rettig. She says exactly what I need to hear, in a very no-nonsense way. I’m working my way through 7 Secrets of the Prolific.

tealily
tealily
10 years ago

I agree, brooked.

Ken L.
Ken L.
10 years ago

God, help me, not only do I have to help fight injustice in general but I have to now redeem my favorite head wear this fedora thing blows me mind. I had no idea that it was linked with MRAs. this is like finding out about hipsters and mustaches. to be fair ti hipsters their to ironic to hate anything. I wear fedoras and have a mustache because I want to since i was little, not to be identified with some movement. in even in the smallest most unimportant ways, the MRM can ruin everybody’s fun.

Tefoo
Tefoo
10 years ago
Pippin
10 years ago

I assumed the necklace charm was supposed to be in the shape of a Michigan district, county, or the city of Detroit itself but I just looked it up and it doesn’t look like any of that… wtf? I’m lost.

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
10 years ago

It could be the head of a lion with a big floofy mane. It’s feasible.

jared
jared
10 years ago

@Isabelle

Perhaps I got to get the mountain bike and head to upstate NY to enjoy the blue orange adirondack, catskill summer mountains. Ahh the feeling of wind in my hair and the scented country air to realx and make me full of joy. Thanks for the tip yeah at one point I have though why even come here at whtm but it has a supportive community and people have been open aabout stuff here but everyone has a different reason for being here. It is a good blog.

mayimoktoo
mayimoktoo
10 years ago

starkidina, I’m going through the same thing with my nephew – fedora, Nice Guy, hyper-atheist, all of it.

I sent him to reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings. Seeing his peers mocking his attitude (and fedora) was far more effective than anything I could say.

jared
jared
10 years ago

@tealily

Other people are saying the same thing as you-why worry about. I think he is a dangerous man. Check out a plethora of stuff about this guy in the archives here. As I said most of these mra/mgtow blogs dissolve I have seen time and time. But this guy’s not going away and he was able to snag a Canadian Senator to speak on his panel.

People say why worry about Elam he really as no influence. I don’t agree these hate group seven if they have a few official members because they are manipulated to give big donation

Some here say Elam is no threat and it is going overboard to say he is. I disagree tealily
this guy has craftily built a hate group under the mask of helping men and he is a politician and he also greedy which I think is dangerous. If no one does or says anything about Elam and just thinks he is harmless ,that might be a bit shortsighted imo.

Yeah I agree probably 98% of mra blogs mean nothing and eventually dissolve. But this guy wants to make people eat glass who come after him. I can perhaps say he Elam may be the only mra leader that has any type of influence. It is only guy but one is too many with these mra’s.

Isabelle
Isabelle
10 years ago

@tealily

I believe that without becoming too alarmist about the MRM, its not wise to dismiss them as harmless. Its like weeds in the vegetable garden; those tiny sprouts left unchecked tend to grow. A couple of years ago, there was a very interesting paper published which set at 10% of committed believers the tipping point for an idea to become mainstream.
http://news.rpi.edu/luwakkey/2902

If the model is accurate, they don’t need to convert the majority of men, but just enough. So, no cause for panicking, just weeding. Thank goodness so far their pr sucked.

brooked
10 years ago

@Ken L

Not to sound like nag, but if “Aunt Tammy” is your variation of “Uncle Tom”, don’t go there. You can critique the so-called honey badgers without cannibalizing the civil rights movement and Malcolm X.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago

@jared

I believe Elam and AVFM are dangerous, too. If they continue on unchecked, a woman is going to be injured or die. There are bound to be unstable people in that crowd who could make it their mission to exact revenge in a violent way.

I’m hopeful that their flagrant disregard for the law will eventually bite them in the ass before something bad happens.

jared
jared
10 years ago

@Auntie Alia

Great points. I was astounded in the article that David has on this thread, the reporter Ms Hesse called Elam as a “tall and polite man” like he comes across as distinguished which is why he so easily can fool people and be cunning with his intelligence and all.

However, who she called “polite” is a demon who an increasingly number of angry young men and he is trying hard to recruit women to his club . These people are vulnerable to his prey and as you said someone could get hurt if people just remain silent about him and do not care because they think he is harmless.

Ken L.
Ken L.
10 years ago

@brooked

I would not call you a nag, however the comparison is correct.also note it was all so a half joke seeing how i admitted i bastardized it in the post it self.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Even if they weren’t dangerous on a wider societal influence level, it’s pretty much just a matter of time before one of their followers goes after one of their official female rage targets with a gun.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago

Here’s a Flavorwire article that calls out MRAs on their shit.

It’s easy to write off MRAs as lunatics — any group who can call feminism “a multibillion-dollar hate industry” isn’t exactly asking to be taken seriously, especially since I’m writing this on a day when the Supreme Court just decided that a corporation’s right to believe in whatever bullshit it likes is more important than a woman’s right to insurance-subsidized birth control.

Dean Esmay jumped into the comments section to defend their claim of this “industry” and then said:

We will be doing a profile of one of these groups near where we held our conference, which attacked our conference and tried to stop it happening; their budget for “social activism” alone is about 4 times higher than our entire operating budget worldwide; their total budget, most of which goes to pay staff, is $4,000,000 annually, most of that from government funds. That’s in one county (Oakland) in one state (Michigan). They are typical; they are proudly ideological feminists, believing pseudoscientific non-falsifiable concepts like “The Patriarchy” ( just like you do, apparently) and while they give lip service to male victims they have practically no services for them, keeping them very much on the margins and using their few males as tokens, and still rely on hateful concepts like “toxic masculinity” to explain sexual and intimate partner violence in the face of a mountain of scientific research (which I can also point you to) which calls all that into quesiton.

Feminism is an ideology as well as an industry. The network of groups controlling the money (Haven in Oakland County Michigan being one of them) are very deeply invested in the myth that domestic violence is primarily perpetrated by men (it isn’t) and the myth that sexual assault is primarily male-perpetrated (it isn’t). Their services are geared toward these ideology-based beliefs rather than evidence-based and solution-oriented programs.

This article links to another with a video clip of Warren Farrell blaming Elliot Rodger’s mother. Sigh. This must have been filmed secretly because it shows the faces of attendees in Farrell’s workshop and the camera angle is weird.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 years ago

Can anyone read the button? I’m curious to know what it is Honey Badgers won’t do.

Also, good to know that abuse is on the same level as chapped lips.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago

@Buttercup

I’m seeing “We wouldn’t (?), that’s (what?)”

Ken L.
Ken L.
10 years ago

@Auntie Alias
the funniest part of Esmay’s rant is he is right about the whole budget thing. when you host your major event at a VFW post your not exactly rolling in the money but of course esmay misses the irony of the government funding feminist and not him. for all it faults the government 90% of the time doesn’t fund made up bullshit. you would think that would be a big clue that what your promoting my not be a real problem.

creepycupcake
creepycupcake
10 years ago

I lost it when I saw that chapstick.