One last AVFM Conference update, with links to two more stories about that historic event.
The first, a gently skeptical Washington Post story by Monica Hesse titled, with a certain irony, “Men’s rights activists, gathering to discuss all the ways society has done them wrong.”
The whole thing is worth reading. My favorite bit:
One presenter, a military veteran speaking on the treatment of veterans returning from war, put up a PowerPoint slide alleging that 70 percent of men returning from war get divorced, and 90 percent do so within five years. When asked about the source of this statistic, he said, “That particular statistic is from my personal observations. I’m just speaking here as a dude.”
Ah, the prestigious Journal of Statistical Dudeness!
The second, well, it’s a bit more disturbing. DarkHorseSwore – a regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit who raised money to go to Detroit to cover the convention only to be turned away at the door – managed to finally get an audience with some of the conference attendees and organizers – after the convention, as they celebrated at a bar and then in a hotel lobby. She got this access because none of them knew who she was. (Eventually Dean Esmay showed up and had her escorted off the premises.)
Now DarkHorseSwore has set up a website – DarkHorseSwore.com – and has started posting about the strange 5 ½ hours she spent amongst the AVFMers. She tells the tale of a strange encounter with one of the Honey Badgers and then an even stranger tale of an even stranger encounter with an old man and his camera. You’ll have to go read it. Be warned: It’s creepy as hell.
Oh, and she picked up some amazing conference swag as well. And by “amazing” I mean “possibly the worst conference swag I’ve ever seen, I mean, what the hell, and also why are they all beige?”
This takes “Holy Shit!” to a whole new level.
Pretty much.
That story about the old man taking pictures of parts of her body was incredibly creepy. The fact that the AVFMers did nothing to stop him reveals their true feelings about abuse against women. They won’t even fucking stand up to stop a man from harassing a woman RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, instead they’ll just joyfully talk about their shitty reactionary talking points while drunk. Fucking assholes.
Well, at least 70% is a new statistic, so I suppose that’s progress. Shame it’s still being drawn from the murky depths of some guy’s bottom.
”One presenter, a military veteran speaking on the treatment of veterans returning from war, put up a PowerPoint slide alleging that 70 percent of men returning from war get divorced, and 90 percent do so within five years. When asked about the source of this statistic, he said, “That particular statistic is from my personal observations. I’m just speaking here as a dude.”
Beautiful. MRAs summed up in one paragraph.
“You look like my daughter”
(Takes close-up pictures of boobs)
Welp, I guess I didn’t really need to sleep tonight anyway.
Ally, and sitting right next to cameraman is, I believe, our old friend M. Buchanan.
Who’s the honey badger giving her the evil eye?
I think that’s typhonblue.
From the article, sorry for not using block quotes
“The primary through-emotion of the conference attendees — if not the more fiery presenters — wasn’t hatred but a lost, if somewhat self-involved, sadness. Here at the VFW was an island of misfit boys and damaged men, who claimed to have believed in the system until it failed them.”
That is telling in my analogy on the other thread to a “cult like” atmosphere at avfm whereby Elam recruits on vulnerable men and women who are looking for a sense of belonging and meaning in their lives. Perhaps inasmuch as these men could be depressed and sad they could to therapy and get help, but somehow they are taken advantage of at a vulnerable time by Elam.
“Elam in person is a tall, polite, drawling figure — he’s from Houston — who describes his site as a “place for men to express the pain and anger which they are denied from doing” in the world at large.”
That also sort of exemplifies what a lot of the comments here about Elam’s persona to the public. He has that avuncular look (Elam actually looks like an Uncle, lol, of mine with the distinguished beard and grey hair. He sort of even fooled this reported Ms. Hesse as appearing “tall and polite”. But obviously we know here at we hunted the mammoth, he is anything but polite. In fact he is the antithesis of polite but he fooled this reporter in his cunning way.
“At the end of the weekend, one presenter — Warren Farrell, who used to be a visible figure in the National Organization for Women before turning his focus to men’s rights several decades ago — emotionally declared: “I’ve always said the men’s movement is in its embryonic stage. I’m no longer going to say that.”
This is why I kind of do not agree with some commenters here saying we should not worry about Elam and a voice for men because it may just a few hundred dudes on the internet.
I think we should worry about Elam. So far in the manosphere, he has been the only mra to have lasted and with his conference he is now getting the publicity in the mainstream media and that is dangerous with all his hate.
Avfm may only have a few hundred guys but it is a small group of men with deep pockets that give money to Elam and he is in it for the money. Once a group has a lot of money they can get more power and notoriety and pay people off to affiliate with him. That is dangerous with a hate group like avfm.
Elam has a big ego and runs his organization like he is an entrepreneur and it is his baby. In the beginning of avfm it was known as “Paul Elam’s a voice for men.”
Elam is dangerous and he is not going to dissolve anytime soon in fact he is on a mission to have more conferences and recruit more people. especially women. A commenter here said it is no big deal because he only has around 500 “honeybadgers”. I say 500 is way too much, it should be zero. I contend while most of the manosphere blogs are just silly and eventually dissolve, Elam is not going anywhere and with his money he is a dangerous threat.
We needs more blog like whtm because David has been for a while now exposing the truth about Paul Elam and has numerous threads about his shenanigans and bullying in the archives here. The good thing is there are now a lot of twitter pages being created to combat Elam and his cohorts. With his money and power, the most likely scenario is Elam self destructing and going down if he goes down avfm will fall by the wayside. Let us hope that happens but in the meantime more smear campaign like this blog are needed to tell the real truth about a voice for men.
https://twitter.com/REALFACEOFMRAS
And then afterwards saying “these photos will be great for later tonight…”
I really, really don’t want to think about what he was implying in that. Fucking disgusting dude.
@ Ally
Yeah, I have to congratulate her for her self control. I’d probably have vomited in his lap.
“she debated hotly with two male journalists beside me and, when Warren Farrell’s studies on masculinity were brought up, went so far as to explain peer review process as unnecessary for certain papers..” from Darkhorseswore account
Definitely what the journal editors of Social Text thought before the Sokal hoax. Nonsense and bogus stats don’t like scrutiny much. Neither do the MRAs when I think about it …strange.
Oh, this is just a cute quote from Sokal:
“But I am a leftist (and a feminist) because of evidence of logic, not in spite of it.”
This whole incident reminds me of the social phenomenon that many trans women experience. When misogynist men feel that they are only in the company of other misogynist men, they show their true colors. I know men who call themselves “feminists” and “pro-equality” in front of women and then behind women’s backs joke about women being raped while intoxicated.
In this situation, the woman was cis, and rather than being erased was treated as simply a non-threatening woman around whom they (which in this case included equally misogynistic women) could comfortably express their misogyny. And the misogyny was in the form of sexual harassment and total silence in response to said harassment.
There is no fucking way I could be convinced that they aren’t anti-woman.
Hi – I’ve been reading this blog for awhile, and I just made an account so I can comment. I just wanted to say, thank you for providing a comprehensive source of information on these manosphere misogynists. My brother has recently started self-identifying as an MRA, and I’m really frustrated by it. This helps provide an antidote, I guess.
Anyway, hello, and you will probably be seeing more of me soon!
A wooden necklace thingy, symbolizing who the hell knows what!
Looks like a male and female symbol in a cartoon fight. It’s an accurate depiction of internet gender wars, if nothing else.
I thought it was supposed to be a state? With the symbols sticking out of it to symbolize, I dunno, the honey badgers getting drunk at the bar with the creepy old guy?
Some kind of mutated maple leaf?
Canada and GO USA joining together to hate women?
I think it symbolizes someone who hasn’t had much practice with his shiny new jigsaw.
The only thing I can think of is a bug splashed on my windshield. Maybe it was an hermaphrodite fruitfly?
Yeah, it looks like a deformed maple leaf to me, too. Happy Canada Day!
So let me summarize the MRA argument on facts:
1. Feminists/women/the Evil Empire of Darth Vader Cupcakes make up all their facts and statistics and have no valid argument.
2. Men’s Rights Activists make up all their facts and statistics and that is completely legitimate because…it just is.
Oh yeahhhh, duh. It all makes sense to me now. Thanks, MRAs!
One very quick Google search leads me to some non-dudely facts:
Also, a Welcome Package for starkidnina is in order! Hope your brother comes out okay. There are some former MRAs here, so it can happen!
@starkidnina omg..that’s so horrible about your brother..is there anything you can do to help him you think?