Well, the AVFM conference is over. I thought I’d post links to some of the media coverage today. I’m not sure Paul Elam and co have quite attained the level of respectability they were going for with the conference. It probably didn’t help that their PR gal, Janet Bloomfield, kept posting about “whores” and then, during the final panel discussion, delivered a passionate defense of “doxxing.”
Anyway, here’s the press coverage today:
Men’s rights conference takes aim at feminism, by Adam Serwer, MSNBC.
Serwer presented a sardonic take on the conference, full of revealingly awful details. Some highlights:
What animated most of the speakers at the conference was feminism and how it needed to be defeated. …
At the conference, feminism was responsible for turning wives against their husbands, bleeding them dry in divorce proceedings and separating them from their children, levying false accusations of rape and abuse against good men, or creating an ever-present culture of hatred where men are vilified.
Though men’s rights activists who hosted the conference often say sexual assault against men isn’t taken seriously, the audience laughed when speaker Fred Jones mentioned his fears about his son being raped after being arrested in New Orleans.
“He’s kinda small and kinda cute, good looking, you know what I mean?” Jones said. “You know what they do with –” Jones cut himself off. But the audience laughed.
Barbara Kay, a columnist for Canada’s National Post, argued that … [r]ape on college campuses … was a myth perpetrated by man-haters …
“The vast majority of female students allegedly raped on campus are actually voicing buyer’s remorse from alcohol-fueled promiscuous behavior involving murky lines of consent on both sides,” she said, drawing chuckles from the audience. “It’s true. It’s their get-out-of-guilt-free card, you know like Monopoly.” The chuckles turned to guffaws.
The First International Conference on Men’s Issues: Day 1, by Arthur Goldwag, Hatewatch
On the SPLC’s Hatewatch blog, Goldwag — who wrote that famous SPLC takedown of the Men’s Rights movement — delivered up a surporisingly straightforward account of the first day of the conference. Some highlights:
A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam warned attendees to keep low profiles, lest they be harassed by protesters, and made much of the police presence he had secured. There were indeed uniformed policemen on site, and quite a few black-shirted security guards. There were camera crews from Vice and a number of reporters. But the only sounds to be heard outside the VFW Hall were chirping birds and the hum of passing traffic—there wasn’t a protestor in sight. I counted between 150 and 200 people in the hall. …
The Canadian Senator Anne Cools, who opened the conference, spoke at great length about how feminism has hijacked Canada’s family courts, quoting Blackstone on women’s rights, the song “Frankie and Johnnie” and even Euripides to give lie to the supposed feminist myth that women were historically oppressed. Frankie and Medea, she implied, both gave as good as they got. Erin Pizzey, the well-known novelist, ex-feminist, and founder of Chiswick Women’s Aid, one of the first women’s shelters, indicted the movement she had once helped lead as a radical Marxist plot to turn women against men, destroy families, and create a billion dollar social welfare industry.
My Experience at the First International Men’s Conference So Far, by Helen Smith, PJ Media
And then there was “Dr. Helen,” writing on her blog on the right-wing website PJ Media. Dr. H, one of the speakers at the AVFM conference, described her time amongst the MRAs as “quite a delight.” Indeed, her account was so chipper I found myself wondering if she had even attended the same conference as Serwer and Goldwag — or the conference I watched several hours of online.
The crowd of what looked to be about two or three hundred people were diverse and ranged from all ages to all ethnic backgrounds. There were more men there but almost as many women it seemed! … I was in awe and amazed at the great group of intellectual speakers and the audience who asked questions that were critically thought out and challenging.
Yeah, definitely a different conference.
She did have one worry, though: that other people were there to report on the conference besides her.
My only concern with the conference was the media that was present. It seemed that reporters from Time, MSNBC, GQ, and Vice.com were there. I got an uneasy feeling about a few of them though I suppose their stories could go either way, though I think I know which way to bet. There were a couple of women from Vice.com that we sat with at an appreciation dinner for speakers who seemed very nice but frankly, a bit clueless.
I’m guessing those women from Vice.com are a lot less “clueless” than Dr. H thinks.
See the AgainstMensRights subreddit for more discussions of the conference. I borrowed the pic for this post from here.
so i went straight into the drunken MRA underbelly after hours. that was, uh… well, a bit scary. but enlightening.
Banshee,
How exactly is blaming women for being raped not a personal attack?
Really?
Groupthink?
So we should openly entertain the notion that victims are at fault for being raped?
That’s bullshit.
@Argenti Aertheri
Regarding Elam as a cult leader — so, as I’ve mentioned, I have a perverse interest in serial killers…and cults…many of the traits overlap, it’s freaky, and both give me that “just what the FUCK makes these people tick?”…………..
However, Elam really does remind me of cult leaders yet to go totally isolationist. The blinded by charisma and lies followers, the cries for MAOR MONEY, the whole “they” are against us, etc.
I have a question for you Argenti inasmuch as you seem to have some knowledge of all this stuff;
Do you think Paul Elam with his charm and all preys on vulnerable men and women who are looking for a sense of belonging in life? I ask this because it seems Elam has been trying to recruit more women at a voice for men recently. Even at the conference Elam asked for a standing ovation to applaud all the woman at the conference. He even has a term for his women disciples called “Honeybadgers”
. Do you think Elam prey and tries to recruit vulnerable women and men who are looking for some type of panacea and sense of belonging/meaning in their lives? The whole thing seems eerie with the term honeybadgers and it seems based on some of the things I heard at the streaming conference online is like Elam has a mission now to recruit women for his club.
Darkhirseswore,
That sounds scary.
Also, “loyal opposition”?
MM-hmmm.
http://i.imgur.com/7tTfGBT.gif
*horse* Sorry I botched your nym.
@sworebythepreciousso i went straight into the drunken MRA underbelly after hours. that was, uh… well, a bit scary. but enlightening.”
Geez you are fearless. I heard at the3 end of the live stream that all the conference goers were going to meet a local dance club for a after conference party.Geez I cannot even imagine a bunch of mra’s and the honeybadgers partying and thinking their having a good time in their misery. I am not sure if that is the one you crashed. Thank Goodness you are okay and safe and accomplished your mission by going to Detroit to expose these guys. Good work.
@Sworebytheprecious
I read your account on AgainstMensRights and am very much looking forward to your report. I salute you for your courage.
Yeah, I mean, he may have said that women create rapists by living our lives the way we choose, but he said it so nicely!
What are you even doing here, Banshee?
Deets please? If you feel comfortable sharing.
@Jason, if you can’t do blockquotes, could you at least put the bits you’re quoting in italics or something? I find it difficult to follow your posts sometimes.
@Swore
You are amazing. Read your post and followed your twitter during the conference. I am excited to see your work from the experience.
Still collecting my thoughts on the conference, while eating some cheese toast and lazing in bed with the fiancé. I’m sure I’ll post something long and rambly at some point. I just wanted to say that I am glad to be part of this community. While we track and mock for the large part, we are also doing good work brining this stuff to light. I am thankful to David and all of you.
The number could be 500 and would still be pathetic for an “international” convention of any kind. Especially one that has had such a hard time trying to pull the first one off. I’ve seen high school groups get a better turn-out.
Not that anyone needed any reinforcement that the overwhelming majority of MRMs are only on the online sites to complain of their loser status and how women won’t do what they want. They don’t give a damn about any real issues men face.
Sorry, Katz, not at all gauche. I stalled in the 5th chapter because of traveling. (Not lack of interest in finishing!) Back home Monday and hope to finish this week.
Everyone who can travel, and likes trees, ferns, birds, and water should go to Olympic State Park in Washington.
I’m not caught up on this thread so I’m sure I’ll be ninja’d.
Where are you seeing tears? We’re not crying. We’re mocking you.
Oh good. It’s our daily misogynist pretending to be a neutral observer troll.
Unfortunate? That doesn’t quite cover it. Rape apologia deserves a much stronger negative reaction.
They deny that they endorse rape but they constantly excuse rape, victim blame or assume the victim is lying.
Due process doesn’t get circumvented at all. Only 3% of the time does a rapist end up jailed. False accusations are not “arguably” less common than rape. There has been plenty of research on this subject. Google it. False rape accusations are not any more common than false accusations for any other crime. Yet misogynists are obsessed only with false rape accusations. I wonder why that is? Could it be because they actually want to rape with impunity? And no being accused of rape is not worse than being raped. Fuck you for saying that.
Victim blaming bullshit. The only one at fault for a rape is the rapist. That’s it. Rape culture existed long before 40% of children were being born out of wedlock and long before no fault divorces were a thing. Those two are not related.
We’ve been over this so many times. Mothers usually get primary custody because they are far more likely to seek it. When fathers seek primary custody they are likely to get it. You’re assuming that courts are biased against fathers because MRAs said so but you aren’t providing any evidence of this.
Search this blog. There is plenty of hate speech on AVFM. Both from the contributors and the commenters.
Sorry about the OT, but something just happened and I am distraught. I can’t think of a better community to vent this to than this one. At church today, they brought up some guy from the “clarity clinic pregnancy center” to discuss their “pro life” ways. I immediately felt my face getting hot, not one of these guys again, I thought. He proceeded w the typical talking points but then went into a realm that really pissed me off. “These girls have no idea the physical and psychological trauma an abortion has on them. God put that bond between a mother and the baby in her womb.” If they really fucking believed this, then their whole adoption pushing completely falls apart. You know what’s traumatic? Carrying a baby to term, labor, and delivery. Potentially traumatic is handing said baby over to strangers to wonder for the rest of your life how he/she is. Or how about the ultrasound they force on women and girls? He actually called it their “secret weapon.” I walked out after that, hopefully noticeably. As I left I could hear him trailing off into the statistics of women who change their minds after seeing the ultrasound. No fucking shit. Thanks for the shame dickwad. THATS what’s traumatic. My friend was impregnated by her father when she was 16. Do they ever consider scenarios beyond the one in their head of the confused pregnant lady with pregnancy being her only problem?
I had an abortion when I was 15 years old and I’m positive it was the best decision. I even had a moving talk w the doctor beforehand in which he told me how smart I am and how bright my future is, while I cried thinking I was a slut, full of shame. The father of it has since been in and out of jail and had gone on to abuse other women. I am married to a wonderful man (who is a feminist) and have 2 children that I adore and chose to have when I was physically and psychologically ready to do so. What the fuck is a middle aged man doing even talking about this crap? The only traumatizing aspect of my abortion is having to endure this rhetoric. I’m so very very upset. I love my church, but I can’t ignore this. Sorry to hijack the thread.
Banshee,
What the fuck?
How is victim blaming not a personal attack? There are several regular commenters who are rape survivors and Justin’s bullshit was deeply offensive.
You can use civil language and still say repugnant things. Don’t tone troll us when we have a reaction to those repugnant comments.
You really think we’re just ganging up on rape apologists because we’re incapable of thinking for ourselves? Please. I also wonder what you’re doing here. This is a mocking misogyny blog. If you don’t like to see misogynists mocked, this isn’t the place for you.
Nitram,
That’s terrible and enraging. I hate the lie anti choicers like to spread around that abortion is traumatizing. Most women feel relief after their abortion. A couple years ago I read about a study done in the Netherlands (I think). Women were far more likely to see mental health care after giving birth than after an abortion. Having a baby is very stressful and scary, even if a new mother doesn’t suffer post-partum depression. It should be an informed choice. Not something a woman is forced into.
Nitram, I wish I had some wise words but the best I can come up with would be to yell “Who the fuck do you think you are?” at him right before leaving.
I know a few people who had an abortion who regretted it, I know a few who did not. People and the situation they are in makes a world of difference in how someone feel after having an abortion.
I was an escort for our local Planned Parenthood years ago when my church group went to “Inspire them with God’s love” ie yell at them. I never knew what was more horrifying to them, the fact that I might be there to have an abortion, never mind all of the low cost services that they offered to keep women healthy, or that I was helping other women who might have an abortion. I left the church within the month.
Nitram, I’m sorry you had to deal with that, but sadly that’s just a part of life in many churches. There are religions and branches of religions out there that don’t preach the anti-choice rhetoric, but if the one you beleive in does, there’s little you can do to avoid it except not go to church, or leave when you disagree with a sermon.
At least if it’s just in the church, and not in the schools or government, you can still leave…
Nitram, I’m sorry your church invited an opportunistic jerk to come in and monopolize the service with his boasts of lies and manipulation. It’s just disgusting. Church is supposed to be a safe space of fellowship and communion. It’s awful that you had to feel so bad in place that is usually so good.
All of the hugs, snacks, and love, for if/when you want them.
Two more quick things and I’ll stop flooding the thread.
On drink the Kool-Aid: Even though it isn’t accurate, the phrase has entered the vernacular. At this point it’s a colloquialism that’s going to be here for awhile. It’s past the point of the source mattering. I don’t personally see a problem with using it to describe the blind devotion Elam’s followers have.
Has anyone noticed that Banshee has an annoying habit of scolding us for our tone or our dislike of the Tea Party/Republicans and then not staying in the thread to engage with us when we respond? What’s the point?
@weirwoodtreehugger
Search this blog. There is plenty of hate speech on AVFM. Both from the contributors and the commenters.
That is why I think Paul Elam is so dangerous. He is a suave dude and can con the public who never heard of a voice for men and the manosphere to think as you wrote they are genuinely trying to help men. Elam erased his archives on his blog recently to hide the hateful comments. But it appears which sucks that a voice for men is growing and he there were panelists there from Australia and India and even social worker. This is crazy. I’ve commented here before Elam is all about marketing his brand a voice for men. He is sneaky and shrewd, he is treating it like a voice for men is a corporation and he is the entrepreneur or ceo or something.
As a person of Jewish heritage, I do not to go to an extreme and compare Elam to Hitler, nor do I want to offend anyone here, but Elam is a very intelligent administrator and I have a hunch he has a hell of a lot of money and probably lives like a king off all the donations. It seems he is constantly I mean constantly asking for donations and obviously he has a craft to persuade people to donate to his hate.
This guys got to be stopped. I’m just so thankful for this blog here at we hunted the mammoth and I want to help contribute and donate, because the mainstream media like the msn article yesterday about the conference does not portray a voice for men as a bigoted group which is a shame. These guys are as just like skinheads and the kkk. Michael Kimmel ‘s book is a good read about these guys called “Angry white men.”
@Nitram
Hugs, if you want them.
I am so sorry for what you went through, and that your church did something that could have been triggering for you. If you want it, you can have some of my rage, too. The fire sometimes keeps me warm and lights my path!
Nitram,
I’m sorry that happened. You could write a letter (anonymous or not) to your pastor saying what you said here. Let them know how wrong supporting forced birth is and that it isn’t very compassionate or honest of them to spread misogynist forced birth propaganda.
If that doesn’t bring about change, you may want to starting looking for a new church. You won’t be able to enjoy church services if you never know when the message is going to be about denying your rights or vilifying you unjustly.