At A Voice for Men’s conference yesterday, antifeminist crusader Erin Pizzey was given “a special award for her tireless work with ALL the victims of domestic violence.” Due to the amazing public relations work of AVFM’s spokeswoman for the conference, I don’t know what the award was called, so let’s just assume it was the World’s Greatest Erin Pizzey Award.
Whatever the award was called, the notion that Pizzey works, tirelessly or otherwise, on behalf of “ALL the victims of domestic violence” is demonstrably false. Indeed, she has argued vociferously against extending DV protection to all victims.
In an op-ed she wrote for The Daily Mail in 2011, Pizzey declared herself “horrified” that the British government would consider extending domestic violence protection to those subjected to “emotional bullying and ‘coercive control’” as well as actual physical abuse.
Her “argument” may be triggering for abuse survivors, so I’m putting all of her quotes below the jump.
Pizzey wrote:
In other words, if you stop your wife using the phone, you could be bracketed with a man who has knocked his wife’s teeth out in a rage.
In the future, couples who row, smashing precious belongings in a fit of anger perhaps, could seek to have their other half charged under domestic violence laws. Thus, too, wives who, for whatever reason, destroy their husband’s fine wine collection, or cut the sleeve off his suits in an act of revenge for some betrayal or slight, may find themselves charged with this most serious of crimes.
Domineering, bullying husbands who shout at their wives but never lift a finger to hurt them would find themselves in court.
Let me tell you: this is not domestic violence. It is an absurd idea to define such acts in that way, and worse, it serves to trivialise genuine cases of domestic abuse.
The new definition, which the government did indeed put in place in 2013, extended domestic violence and abuse to include
Any incident or pattern of incidents of controlling, coercive or threatening behaviour, violence or abuse between those aged 16 or over who are or have been intimate partners or family members regardless of gender or sexuality.
The government spelled out clearly what they meant by “controlling” and “coercive” behavior.
Controlling behaviour is: a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate and/or dependent by isolating them from sources of support, exploiting their resources and capacities for personal gain, depriving them of the means needed for independence, resistance and escape and regulating their everyday behaviour.
Coercive behaviour is: an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.”*
*This definition includes so called ‘honour’ based violence, female genital mutilation (FGM) and forced marriage, and is clear that victims are not confined to one gender or ethnic group.
There is no question, at least not to anyone who is serious about ending domestic violence and abuse, that “controlling, coercive or threatening behaviour” is abuse.
Why shouldn’t “domineering, bullying husbands who shout at their wives” in an attempt to control and coerce them be prosecuted for abuse? Why shouldn’t wives who do the same be prosecuted?
Pizzey not only argued against prosecuting those who bully their partners into submission through emotional, psychological, sexual or financial abuse. She also argued that most victims of domestic violence aren’t really legitimate victims either:
To me, the definition of domestic violence is quite clear: if you are not in fear of your life, you are not suffering it.
That’s right, the woman AVFM just honored as an advocate for “ALL victims of domestic violence” only considers actual physical violence to be domestic violence if the victim is literally afraid that they will be killed.
She continues:
In all other cases, where the aggression takes only an emotional form, or a few coffee cups have been chucked around, women in modern Britain thankfully have the option of finding a lawyer and choosing to separate from their husbands if they wish to do so.
The obvious point is that there is almost always clear evidence in domestic violence cases — bruises, cuts, internal organ damage or scars. Unless you have seen real, shocking abuse as I have, it is difficult to imagine some of the awful violence that people can inflict on each other in the home. And that’s why I’m convinced that bringing other, lesser, wrongs under this same legal umbrella does a great disservice to the women who really suffer.
How does protecting all victims of abuse do a disservice to those suffering the worst abuse? The police arrest people who assault as well as people who murder; this is hardly a “great disservice” to victims of murder.
Pizzey warns that the expanded definition “will turn millions of us into criminals.” She then makes a startling confession:
[A]fter all, I’ve been known in my time to lob the odd glass of wine in the heat of the moment. Indeed, there is something frightfully satisfying about chucking wine at somebody.
Yep. The woman who is A Voice for Men’s guru on domestic violence likes to chuck wine glasses at people. And apparently thinks this is a perfectly fine way to handle domestic disputes.
At this rate, we’ll all end up under arrest, and that is not a situation that’s going to help the police tackle the cases of true physical violence which must be stamped out.
Needless to say, the new definition, in place since April of last year, has not led to mass arrests of everyone in the U.K. If the new definition has put some wine-glass chuckers in jail, I can’t say I think this is a great injustice.
Pizzey declares that
People behave badly in relationships because we have human frailties. This is not an area in which the State should meddle; leave it to relationship counsellors and divorce lawyers.
Why shouldn’t the state “meddle” in cases of domestic abuse? The law doesn’t end at your door.
Pizzey winds up her op-ed by accusing those working against domestic violence – presumably she excludes herself – of being in it for money and power.
Over the past ten years, domestic violence has become a huge feminist industry. …
This is girls-only empire building, and it is highly lucrative at that. Men are not allowed to be employed at these organisations. Boys over the age of 12 are not allowed into safe houses where their mothers are staying, which I think is scandalous. …
Who benefits from this industry? Refuge has an annual income of more than £10 million from both public and private donations. Cherie Booth is a patron. The heads of these organisations are on very generous salaries.
And they are on a feminist mission to demonise men — even those who never have and never will hit a woman.
It’s appalling that this woman has gotten any kind of award.
Are you seriously arguing that if two people are along then they both persons lose all right to protection under law for any crime that doesn’t leave a forensic trace? Interesting.
Seconding
@Sir Bodsworth: all I am saying is that such crimes become significantly harder to prove.
Again this was, please, NOT a commentary on sexual assault. In sexual assault there is a forensic trace of any action; the questioned part is consent, but I can agree with placing a duty specifically on men to ensure the positive presence of consent, and even to take steps to register it somehow (as in have it witnessed by a third party) if they don’t have full trust in the person. If it kills hookup culture: good riddance!
Tedious troll is tedious.
Okay, I’ve dropped the Dark Lord a line.
No, you didn’t say it makes it harder, you said it was ruled out. The word you used was ‘excludes’. It’s right there where everyone can see it.
Secondly, I mentioned sexual assault once, when comparing you to other trolls. If you want to pull ab ‘I don’t want to talk about X but here’s my opinion on X’ go ahead. Just don’t drag me into it.
You know Cheap Chinese Noodle, you really do not have the tone of “my best friend is in a pickle” and I am scrambling to help him. You sound more like your writing the definitive manual on “how to entrap my wife, pass her for a mean bitch and get to keep the house, the kids and the paycheck.”
I am sure that if my dearly departed hubby had made the director cut audio of “The best of my wife”, the judge would have cried his balls out in sympathy. Especially after one of his snarky “you’re not mechanically inclined”, I’ve been known to hit the salty patches of the English dictionary.
It’s funny that he really doesn’t realize how obvious he’s being. But yeah, I vote for moderation, especially if the things he’s saying are triggering any abuse victims who’re reading.
ramendik, the people here have patiently responded to your comments, but at this point I think I speak for everyone but you here in saying that this patience has run out. So I’m putting you on moderation. You can talk about other things, in other threads, but this topic and this thread is now off limits to you,
Also, you really need to realize how pernicious formulations like this are:
This makes it sould like without a “mechanism in place” that the only “solution” for those who are emotionally abused is to physically attack the emotional abuser. That’s never a solution, whether or not there’s a mechanism in place. You can’t solve emotional abuse with physical abuse.
Maybe that’s not what you meant — you said as much later — but you used variations on this formulation several times. Like here:
Here’s the thing: you’re talking about abuse to an audience that includes abuse survivors and others who have seen firsthand the toll abuse can have on a person. So it’s not a simple intellectual exercise.
In short, follow the suggestions others have given and read up on this in more detail. Not just the laws, but writings about abuse in general.
I’ll catch up in a moment, but Winter Walker, I’m non-binary — ze/zir pronouns, and I guess either brother or sister works! *returns the fist bump*
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“and even to take steps to register it somehow (as in have it witnessed by a third party)”
Can’t say I’m sorry that topic has been ended, can say I’m sorry I amused the notion he just MIGHT be actually looking for something not based in idiocy.
TW: I’m about to rant about rapist ex’s, proceed at your own risk
So, with #1, who, btw, left no physical mark since I was too drunk to do anything resembling walking to the bathroom to puke, would the other parties present, and photographing and participating count as witnesses? For whom? I mean, I’d have been outnumbered 3:1 (hm, maybe 3:2…thank the gods asshole picked who he picked to call next). I mean, only evidence would’ve been my BAC, and witnesses? Who’d be pleading the fifth or lying? Yeah, real useful.
#2? I did consent, until it hurt and a certain asshole refused to stop. Should these magical witnesses have to stand there for the entire sex act? Even with a long term partner? Every time? Just in case? How else would you know if consent was really withdrawn during the act and not “morning after regrets”?!?
ARRRGHH!!
And just to annoy me further, the storm stopped and I’m already sweating again. I hate this weather. Kitteh, send your cold air up here please!
::flaps cold air in Argenti’s direction::
Thanks, David!
ramendik: Да, Я читаю по-русский, but I have my own sources for information on what is going on in Russia, so thank you for the offer but I shan’t be taking it up.
@Argenti hugs if you would like and I’m sorry that this guy brought up bad memories for you and anyone else.
penis noodles, next time you want to attempt to convince people you’re actually trying to help, rather than whatever twisted game you were playing I suggest you actually FOLLOW PEOPLE’S SUGGESTIONS and, before you come in to discuss a topic you know absolutely nothing about, do your own research and try to read up on as many people’s first-hand experience as possible. A little empathy would go a long way towards, y’know, actually helping people and if that wasn’t your aim here (which, let’s be real here, it wasn’t) then I feel no shame in telling you that you are a despicable human being who should not be allowed anywhere near a victim of abuse.
In other news, I bought The Long Mars today!!! I will probably begin yelling incoherently about it in the next few days, so if anyone would like to join me, feel free!
I haven’t even attempted The Long Earth yet (Beloved did and was not impressed; more Baxter than Pratchett in it).
One of the things with slippery questions about behavior is that clear-cut definitions invite exploitation. While totally subjective rules are problematic (sometimes in th extreme), having a laundry list of forbidden behaviors is worse.
Such lists (as anyone who has ever had to modeate a forum will testify) get used as cheat sheets, so shits can say, “I didn’t abuse them, I didn’t do ‘x’, did “x-minus”.
I know you’re on moderation, but if you’re reading this I’ve got send some “fuck you” your way. You appear to be insinuating that we’re for abuse against men or don’t care about it simply because we have some suspicions about you.
This is a troll heavy place. Anyone who is posting in good faith needs to make that pretty clear. Asking a bunch of pointed weird questions without explaining your motives is going to raise the red flag.
If you are posting in good faith, you messed up. I highly doubt that you are posting in good faith though. I agree with the others that you are probably seeking ways to justify physical abuse. No, nagging is not emotional abuse. There is a big difference between making a “honeydo list” and requesting you do more to help with domestic chores and child rearing and emotional abuse.
I am reasonably certain that his view of the world is such that he is not here in good faith.
My hackles rise at the very mention of nagging. My response to it is usually “If you’d do it the first time you were asked, or even (gasp) took on adult responsibility and did necessary things without being asked, you wouldn’t have to be asked repeatedly, you lazy dumbfuck.”
While he pinged as a troll off the bat, this was this tipping point for me.
This read to me as people need to have a legal defense when they physically abuse their partners (I am giving him the benefit he does not deserve of inclusivity) after they get sick of them asking for help with “women’s work”.
Saying that you do not want to discuss or address your personal motivations does not absolve you.
Many of us here discuss and address our personal motivations as anecdotal evidence and freely acknowledge that they are not factual data. We do not pretend to be neutral observers just curious about the abstract interpretation of the law.
Sorry, quantifying the justification for abuse in a limiting way was because I was angry. I do not think this troll meant to limit the justification to just “nagging” about house work or child care or that these things are the only definitions of work traditionally assigned to women.
Oh right, I was skimming his stuff and I missed that. I thought he was just another iteration of ‘let’s extend the concept of reasonable doubt so far that no woman’s claims of abuse could possibly be believed’ but hiding it under a gender swap. I completely missed the implied threat.
Thanks wewereemergencies.
I figured he was trying for a GOTCHA if any of us said it would be impossible to prove emotional abuse.
“as anyone who has ever had to modeate a forum will testify” *rolls eyes* yes. And since forum =/= law, “or you piss off a mod” works by me.
I find it very worrying that the commenters here don’t consider nagging to be emotional abuse, even more worrying that they only see nagging as being to do with household chores, and the idea that if you would only do as you are told the nagging would stop is pure victim blaming. It doesn’t stop, it moves on to a different area, you are made to feel like you can do nothing right, as soon as you have modified your behaviour in one area so begins the nagging in another area until you have become a non person, even then it doesn’t stop, it’s just a constant drip drip of criticism and you wake up every morning wanting to die
And it’s not about household chores, I did all of the household chores, all the cooking, all the laundry, all the shopping and all the cleaning, I still got nagged. Somebody who wants to abuse you will always find a reason