Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.
Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.
Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.
He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.
When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.
Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.
This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …
Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.
Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.
High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.
wat
It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.
Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.
I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.
In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.
The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.
wat
Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.
You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.
That’s life. Life isn’t fair.
This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.
Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.
This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”
This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.
[citation needed]
He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.
How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!
I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.
Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?
The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.
Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.
All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.
Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.
Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.
Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.
Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.
If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.
And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.
Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.
It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.
I mean, what the fucking fuck.
Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.
Still my favorite sports-related ad. The whole series was pretty great actually.
Ok, how the blue FUCK had I not seen that? I’m Canadian. That’s pretty much the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen.
Happy Canada Day to all the folks living in America’s hat. :3 Now for my contribution to the Thread That Never Ends:
The whole Nice Guy thing baffles the crap out of me. True story, Undies: I met my now-spouse at the same time as my then-boyfriend. Boyfriend was a horrendous crap-pile, which I didn’t recognize because I thought that was normal, from how I grew up. And Steeb, my friend, was always there to put me back together after a horrible fight. These weren’t kindness coins; they were the acts of a genuine friend. He didn’t expect anything from me but my friendship in return.
You’d probably look at him and note his relative shortness (5’9″-ish) and his “gayface” (smooth, delicate, with lovely pink lips and a long, shapely nose to die for) and say that he’d forever be relegated to being a satellite beta. Not so. After my breakup with the asshole, our mutual attraction became apparent, and we were FWB for a few months. It blossomed into a relationship. What, with him? The nerd that makes chainmaille bracelets and has a fascination with antique machinery? The one who wears cat ears and meows sometimes, just for fun? Yes. Him.
Why? Because not long after, I developed the early symptoms of RA, and had a simultaneous mental breakdown. At age 20. This person, this wonderful, caring person, did what few other 24-year-olds would do. He took care of me. A year later, when I could barely walk for the pain, he married me in front of our friends and family. We were dirt poor; we married in a flash mob ceremony on Mill Avenue in Tempe, an important place for us both. And he has always been there to take care of me, no matter if I’m dissociating and distant, or unable to get out of bed, or doing well and ready to go on an adventuresome hike or drive.
That is true love. Real love, based upon mutual compatibility and a shared curiosity of all the world has to offer. I feel terrible for you that you either can’t or do not wish to experience this. Because at the end of the day, I can look over at his face on the pillow next to me, and know that other people may think he’s silly-looking and weird. All I see is glowing, eternal beauty that will never fade, even as he wrinkles and ages. That’s real beauty, and real love.
Teal deer: beauty isn’t about “exquisite proportions,” it’s about learning to love nearly everything about someone, and watching in wonder as they become the most beautiful person you’ve ever seen.
Your Steeb sounds like an awesome person, Gunter.
Have some Furrinati!
http://youtu.be/-InDy_7yXNk
Out of nearly 2,200 posts thus far, I’m singling this out as one of the truest.
The tragedy is, unless you’ve actually experienced it for yourself, you aren’t going to recognise how true that is – a bit like the extremely belated discovery I made when becoming a parent myself that my own parents’ various concerns about me during my teens wasn’t because they were great big meanies who didn’t want me to have fun. Or at least not entirely.
He really is. I always feel like he would be happier in a more carefree relationship, but he always shuts down my self-hate and reminds me of how much he’s learned from me. I couldn’t ask for better. 😀
Your Mr. K sounds like quite the catch as well, from what I’ve read! Also, happy birthday! Sorry if that’s weird or anything, but I ended up reading all 2000+ comments, because I just couldn’t look away from Undie’s trainwreck. 😛
That video is so sweet! I think my cats must secretly watch it; they’re really wonderful (even if Nuggie whines like a three-year-old when I take away whatever small piece of inedible matter she’s trying to ingest -_-; ).
I think this may be one of my favorite Marus:
Happy Canada Day! The first half of July seems to be packed with nationally important days.
@Wetherby Thank ye kindly. 🙂
I honestly hope trollypants really does understand these things someday. He seems like a very unhappy person, though I guess it’s a start that he actually realizes that.
Birthday wishes are always happily accepted, Gunter! 😀
I think that’s my favourite Maru, too. He’s so determined to Fit. In. That. Box.
My Mr K’s a catch too, all right, even if we did have to wait a ridiculously long time to get together (this is what happens when you can’t hear someone in Spirit trying to get through … I need a clairaudient hearing aid!)
Hi, Gunter! Seconding Wetherby’s praise for your fine wordsmithing 🙂
And geeking out over your avatar and nym. Adventure Time is easily the best thing ever.
@Kittehs – Hey, some things are worth waiting for! I’m sure you agree. 🙂
And McNugget, too, like to fit herself in boxes…I do some book shopping on Amazon (yes, it is the devil’s workshop, but I’m far too poor and not mobile enough to get to a real bookstore in sprawling Phoenix, so…sigh), and she tries to fit herself inside the book boxes. Mind you, my cats are all trim and muscular…except her. She is something of a tubster, living up to her namesake. And she tries SO HARD to cram herself in there. I need to take video of it to share with you guys.
@Flying Mouse – I love AT! I really love analyzing from a feminist perspective, and Gunter is just so awesome. Since he/she is ambiguously gendered, and I’m neutrois (did I mention that here, or on the Erin Pissy thread? I forget) so it appeals to me. 😀
Too right, Gunter! 😀
I don’t know any kitties that don’t like squeezing into boxes, or demolishing them, or both. Have you seen that video showing big cats are just the same? It’s hilarious.
What are your preferred pronouns, btw? I hadn’t seen the word neutrois before, so today I learned something! I like the word itself, too: it looks French.
My old cat liked shopping bags. Paper ones with handles ideally, but he’d settle for plastic ones if they were the only thing available (I think he liked the rustling noise, given that he also liked trying to jam his head into empty crisp packets).
::Shaking from suppressing urge to derail entire thread with Adventure Time gushing::
All right, that’s passed. I will say that if my daughter turns out anything like Fiona from the gender-swapped fanfic storyline, I will consider my job as a parent well and truly done.
@kittehserf – “Neutrois” is kind of a bastard French word, I believe, but it pretty much denotes a person that is agendered, but rather than being androgynous, they prefer to remove secondary sex characteristics. For instance, I would very much like top surgery once I’m well enough and have the money. Boobs just don’t belong on me; they’ve freaked me out since they grew in. :
For more info, I suggest this site.
For me, I’ve been okay with being called “she” for a while, but I’m thinking of embracing Spivak pronouns. “She” is fine for now. 🙂
@cassandrakitty – Nugget does those, too. And then tries to eat them, then whines when I take them away. Seriously, I think she’s a three-year-old child in a cat body.
@Flying Mouse – I have a Fiona hat and most of an outfit. She’s a bit of a role model for me. 😀
Sorry to triple-post, but I’ve got to get to bed. Thanks for the fun kitty-talk and AT-talk, everyone!
Since my daughter is six, Halloween costume choices are very important and annual deliberations begin sometime after Valentine’s Day. So far the 2014 race is a dead heat between Princess Celestia from MLP, Sakura from Naruto, and Fiona.
Oh, I missed und’s farewell a page back. I’m still going back and forth on whether or not he was for real.
Undfreeland, on the off chance that you were sincere, it would give me great pleasure to think you pulled your head out of your fundament. Because if you seriously believe all the ludicrous shit that I very much enjoyed mocking… you need to get past that. Post-haste. There might be some potential under all that misogyny, self-loathing, and general malaise of spirit. I can’t help but think that your life would be nicer and easier if you could learn to see people as people, not as fellow selfish voids who’re either as competition for scarce resources or pawns in a status game. If you need help to make this happen, please look for it; major universities usually have some kind of counseling programs that offer free or reduced-fee sessions to students. There’s no shame in getting help. There’s a lot of shame in being a jerk who plans to use everyone. Good luck.
@Gunter, I second Kitten that your SO sounds wonderful. 🙂
Neutrois – cool to learn a new word! I’m, like, the opposite of neutrois. I really wanna build a muscular V-shaped body, just because… that feels more like me, somehow. I just feel more comfortable in my body the closer I get to that. Although I also like to wear lots of make-up, long hair, dangling earrings and so on. Go figure.
Based on Noah Berlatsky’s other pieces for the Atlantic, I bet he’s really disappointed in the reaction to this one…
Neutrois would be an attempt at translating genderless. Its not a French word, at least not officially. But its close to neutre. Neutre can translate as neither male or female but only in a very limited context as an adjective used in reference to some latin words (or other foreign words). Every noun is gendered in French. I would say that the word androgyne is the one traditionally used instead of neutrois, but it defines the person has having characteristic of both genders. Which would be more consistent to the way francophones think because almost nothing in the language is neutral. Yup, its weird, a cup is feminine and a broom is masculine, but that’s the way we roll.
Reminiscent of my all-time favorite Maru video.
My old cat was also once observed doing this.
@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
You managed to make one last a whole week? *Sits at your feet* Teach me your ways, O Learned One!
@Flying Mouse:
MLG has episodes where she’s ordered and regimented and follows rules, and episodes where she doesn’t. I think she’ll pick up potty training pretty quick.
MLB … is an artist. His favorite medium right now is Whatever I Find On the Shelf.
I think I had to skip the episode of Star Trek The Next Generation with the comically primitive Irish settlers. Otherwise, I watched them all.
I watched every episode of The Clone Wars, even the ones with Jar Jar in them. On the upside, I got to see him actually solve a problem. On the downside, Jar Jar.