Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.
Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.
Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.
He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.
When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.
Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.
This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …
Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.
Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.
High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.
wat
It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.
Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.
I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.
In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.
The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.
wat
Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.
You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.
That’s life. Life isn’t fair.
This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.
Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.
This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”
This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.
[citation needed]
He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.
How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!
I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.
Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?
The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.
Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.
All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.
Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.
Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.
Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.
Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.
If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.
And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.
Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.
It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.
I mean, what the fucking fuck.
Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.
Undy: You were an interrogator. I’m sure you fed them milk and cookies and sent them on their way.
Come on… show some spunk (ok, maybe not…) You already tied the, “he admits he is a torturer for Western Capitalism” [says the dude who want’s to be a Day-Trading CPA*], and now it’s this wishy-washy, “ooh… you were all sweetness and light, implications of incompetence.
No, I didn’t use the tea and cookies approach (though that can work.
I did it more the way interrogation really works
It’s been said before (but people like you never listen), to land a jab you have to know where the target is weak. If you want to make it really effective you need to find a scab and pick at it; then when they lash out in responsive anger; pile on with variations on the theme.
It takes a bit of time, and a little self-awareness (because without some sense of where you are vulnerable, you won’t be much good at finding the vulnerabilities in others). It also takes timing.
You… you’re all over the map. Flapping like a towel held to the line with one clothsepin; hoping something will put me off my game (there was the, “you are a poncey dude, with al th money he needs: and good looks, attack; followed by the, “you are so affected, you must be European attack, and the “you have it so easy and can’t know what it’s like for ugly dudes like me” attack, the, “you are lying” attack, the, “you are an evil person” attack [which was a little better for the, “and why don’t the rest of you join me in hating on him” variation}, the “you didn’t do the Army right, so you have no honor” attack, and now the, “you were inept at your job, because you don’t understand it as well as I do (unless “tea and cookies” was rather a new version of, “you are an evil person who lies about not being a torturer” attack).
Those are the one’s which come immediately to mind; I’m sure I missed a couple… Oh, right, the, “you must be lying because that list is too long” attack.
Are there people whom that approach will work to rile, but dude… I’m not one of them. Not only have I spent years (decades, actually) in internet debate (ah… the trolls of usenet), but I spent 15 years teaching people how to be calm why they extracted huge amounts of information from people. I spent time doing that across the table from people who wanted to kill me. Some of whom may have actually tried to kill me.
You, in your little room, lit by the phosphor glow of your computer, with RealPlayer paused the background, aren’t in the running for getting me riled up.
*did I get the semi-random Capitalisation for EMPHASIS!!!! right? I’d hate to be mangling your dialect of Troll.
Man, I would totally take some of my partner to Bone City, or even The city of bones beneath the City of Light
Ew ew ew ew ewewewewewewewew!
You are one messed up individual.
Crave external validation while projecting your inadequacies onto others much?
No Captain Projection, they don’t.
@WWTH – Yeah, that “soldiers are morally bankrupt and complicit in the system, therefore I don’t respect them” bullshit seems to mostly come from libertarians. It seems to be the most personally convenient way for the people who benefit most from the status quo to express their moral virtue and lecture about personal responsibility; bonus is that they also get to be “edgy” (look at me! I don’t support the troops! I reject cultural norms when they have no personal benefit!). I wish I could whack-a-mole that darned argument straight down into the earth’s mantle.
To revive the “questionably shitty things that are more fun than und’s ever had” idea: In 2006 I got cornered into arguing U.S. foreign policy with two drunks on an Irish train. They took turns drinking hard cider out of a two-liter bottle and roared things like “Your husband’s one of the them feckers that drops bombs on babies!” They were scary and rude and I ended up changing train cars to get away (I ran into the conductor when I made my flight, and he said that he’d been about about a minute away from rescuing me himself). But I was on a train to Galway, one of the best cities in a beautiful country! And as crudely delivered as it was, the drunks’ policy analysis was a lot of nuanced than anything und has contributed so far.
argh – “a lot of nuanced” = ” a lot more nuanced.”
I’ve been to the Paris catacombs with my husband. I wish English had a word for ‘something I’m glad I did that I have no intention of ever doing again’, because that would fit perfectly. Mostly the descent down the never ending circular stone staircase, with a file of people filling it before and behind, which activated my claustrophobia. Seeing the thousands of human remains at the bottom was downright enjoyable after that.
Undies seems to be enjoying himself, on that note. This is probably the most human attention he’s gotten all month. Oh, by the way (as my younger son would say), I’m 5’7″ and have been married twice – first husband was shorter than me, current husband is taller. Oh, and I visited Paris with my first husband as well. Oh, the painfully deprived life of the shorter man! Why wasn’t I born like my brother, handsome and tall? Bring me my vodka and porn!
So, soldiers are the tools of evil western capitalism and not worthy of respect, but troll-boy ASPIRES to be a day-trading, financial mogul. The very industry that actually destroyed the world’s economy in 2008, from which it hasn’t recovered.
So respect. Much virtuous.
YES. English needs this word.
Marinerachel:
You got to do an otter necropsy? That’s really, really cool. Sad, because dead otter, but still really, really interesting. I did a seal a few years back, as part of a class. He was a seven year old, born before I was, with lots of freezer time.
His heart was in good shape, but his digestive system was kind of soupy from the freezer. He was also outwardly in really good shape, too. We found some lesions and spots on the heart, and we kind of guessed that might have been the cause…
… But it’s kind of hard to tell after more than a decade in the freezer. Ice-damage? Disease damage? Ice damage?
He died around breeding season and was found and frozen fast so he didn’t stink of decomposition, much. He still stunk to high heavens. Washed my lab clothes more than three times, and the still reeked of the petroleum-y seal musk.
I’m five foot seven! And it’s true, I never get sex. There are only two people I am absolutely certain would welcome me into their beds tonight, a mere two or three more whom I’d give even odds on. My height is the source of such terrible deprivation, I can hardly bear to think of it.
Argenti, it could be doable!
You sound like you’ve already figured out the big husbandry things, and are well aware of the Susan! Stop eating your brother! part. There’s some evidence that canabalistim is environmentally mediated, so you might have a shot at reducing that.
If they survive the phase of potential canabalistim, the next biggest danger to them will be shipping. Any way you could find out how the people you’re buying yours from ship?
Robert,
For me that word is “pregnancy”.
Me too, Lea!
Und projects lik a Wagnerian soprano, bit the stuff he projects is about as lovely as defensive gull projectile vomit.
I suppose he would narrowly define volunteering as still using people, just because of good feelings. Never mind that volunteers can get injured, or need psych help after nasty stuff… Good feelings from volunteering, so you must be using the people you help.
Or, can he just not imagine the fact that nice people and good people really do exist?
Not that people have to volunteer to be good people, of course; just a really blatant example.
Lots of good people doing good things, and getting paid to do them. Or doing things like raising awesome little people into good big people, and lots of other things good folks do.
I never claimed I was morally superior to anyone. Merely that others claiming to be beacons of morality.
I also did not say that anyone could not get laid if they were shorter than me. Personally, I would not. I need the height to compensate for my personality and other looks.
I wish I were taller. Most of the very attractive women I see tend to be with dudes that are around 6’4″ and with more muscle than I seem capable of attaining, even after years if weight training.
Bone City or Poon Mountain? I can’t decide while is more fabulous.
I just throw out clothing I do necropsies in. After about an hour of sitting in a grey whale’s mouth, working on extracting it’s wax ear plug for analysis, I couldn’t smell it anymore. My ex sure could when I got home though. The smell gets in your hair. It’s astounding. You go back the next day and it hits you again. You want to die.
But yeah, waiters off (they can be sprayed down and pretty effectively sterilised), cheap long underwear and socks in the garbage, throw bra and panties in a basket for immediate washing and get in a really hot shower. Then you’re allowed to go home. You do not step foot in the house before though if you’ve just done a necropsy.
Mr. FM is around 5’7″, too. He can feel your pain, gentlemen. I wish you could see his photo albums from before we met. They are a testimony to his early life of despair. Photos of adventures and scenic vistas from four continents (including North America), many of them with him posed arms-around pretty women who he loved then and still speaks fondly of now. Even now, I can tell he’s stewing in quiet pain over his lack of height. It looks like he’s just watching “Naruto” with our son in his lap and drinking a soda, but a wife knows desperation when she sees it.
Contrapangloss – when I first read your post (“Susan! Stop eating your brother!”) I thought it was referring to raising twins. That was an interesting few seconds.
Undies sounds like someone who lives on a diet of Steak-Ums and Cheez Whiz insisting that EVERYONE is chronically constipated, and all this talk of fresh fruits , vegetables, whole grains and regular exercise is just lying liars telling lies. He takes a mocking and keeps on squawking. I just remembered, my eldest brother is a couple inches shorter than me, and he and his wife have been together more than twenty years. But then, he teaches college English, so she’s clearly hypergamous.
FM — if it’s Naruto filler, he’s experiencing desperation! I am about three years behind because I couldn’t take the filler after the Pain arch.
Pecunium — guess I know who I’m taking with me if I ever become a millionaire! That’s good, most of my other options are either not big on small spaces, or bugs, or dead things. You know about the chapel in, uh, fuck!…with the bone chandelier? Also on my list (how do you feel about Pripyat? That one seems to make every go “but you’ll die of radiation!”)
Contrapangloss — I would, but the LFS actually has some! I spent too long yesterday in a corner of the store looking at them and tiger salamanders online, and then back at the tank, and back to the net…and yep, they seem to be the real deal! From my hunting online though, seems overnight USPS and FedEx are favorites. Packed in wet moss in (not my mother’s!) Tupperware, with the required holes.
Speaking of shipping things, LBT, I WILL get you those plants soon! I’m debating if my succulent planter can spare some soil because I am just not finding it and if I go into Home Depot I’m gonna walk out with way more than just the soil! (Not just plants, much of my fish DIY stuff is from there)
Robert — and here more first thought was laughter! Because imagine those “twins” are more like 50~300 babies (in theory. Cories can have 100 babies a go, in theory, I never saw more than 20 eggs actually become babies)
“Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.”
What does any of this have to do with MRAs? You’re just blathering on about things that some criminals who are male have done.
The squarest-jawed hero of all.
…You’re one of those guys who’s constantly trying to wheedle free labor out of everyone you know, aren’t you? I can just hear you whining “Why won’t you make a free poster for my band? I thought you did graphic design because you liked it!” (Minus the band part, of course.)
I was under the impression that they were actually widely bred in captivity because they’re useful lab animals, and so their captive conservation status wasn’t actually very dire. That said, I would totally buy an axolotl. Is a 20 gallon tank too small?
Given what counts as torture to this guy, maybe not.
*sigh*
Shut up, Woody.
Shut Woody.
MRAs are one of many varieties of misogynists we mock.