Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.
Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.
Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.
He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.
When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.
Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.
This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …
Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.
Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.
High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.
wat
It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.
Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.
I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.
In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.
The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.
wat
Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.
You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.
That’s life. Life isn’t fair.
This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.
Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.
This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”
This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.
[citation needed]
He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.
How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!
I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.
Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?
The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.
Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.
All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.
Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.
Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.
Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.
Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.
If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.
And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.
Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.
It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.
I mean, what the fucking fuck.
Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.
piratejenny: Harry Morgan graduated from my high school! But so did Jim Bakker, so…
Not caught up but tinyorc, if you ever do get fish and need to move them by car long distances, been there, done that, can provide tips! And I’m always thrilled to convert someone to the love of the swimming critters 🙂
Happy birthday kitteh!
…great, I just scared the chipmunk 🙁
Well, that works. I forgot I had granola, I’ve set out munchies for the little guy when he comes back out (and he[?] will, I’m between nest and where little one went foraging)
Pecunium — save me a piece of the whacked off forsythia, I figured out why my mother wants it to overgrow the yard — the sweet pea is back and winning, I’d bet dollars to donuts she’d prefer the yellow stuff…chipmunk back, need to freeze in place.
Or not, something is apparently more interesting than my granola!
Eh, it’s the all about me show…guess I’ll go read other threads, but first!
Regarding condom sizes, I recently discovered these folks — http://www.theyfit.co.uk — we’ll soon be working out the whole “ship to the US” issue, cuz comfort is a factor, regardless if I can fit my arm in a condom or not! (Note that factor =/= excuse not to wear one!)
@Argenti
I think those were the ones featured in the film Unhung Hero, right?
“Unhung Hero” – I just woke up my baby.
Piratejennie — no idea, after dealing with the XL’s not fitting well, and googling around to see if we have bigger condoms in the states (we don’t), I found them. If you think pausing to put a rubber on ruins sex, imagine what pausing to measure for one does! (It was quite hilarious actually, probably cuz I was quite drunk)
Tcwill00 // falconer — besides being rudely awoken, how are the little ones?
Happy birthday, kitteh.
PFFFF!
It’s a real movie, although I probably should have offered context 🙂
@Argenti
I in no way meant to imply that fit and comfort aren’t important with condoms or that they can be uncomfortable for some men.
This was just a way to maintain focus on safe sex and proper condom use when guys (young college aged) got disruptive by joking that they couldn’t possibly use condoms because they were just too small.
Condom went over the arm, people had a laugh and then the substance of the talk could continue.
*can’t…
Thanks for the birthday wishes, kitties, singing cards and suits, everyone! 🙂
It’s Saturday morning here, so I have a while to gear up for the next slice of uberpowerful birthday cake.
And WHEEE! congrats for Rogan and Mac (today our time, tomorrow your time)! Happy anniversary!
When I told this to the real-life Mr. FM, he blushed.
Er, I mean, he nodded regally and said “Yeah, I get that a lot.”
Oh, I got you, and have a flashing “they’re called condoms” gif for our trolls who think men have no BC options. I guess I was more reiterating your point and failing — regardless what size it is, you can find condones that fit. And should use ’em!
@Argenti
Okay, good.
I can be a little tone deaf online, so I doubt you were failing to make your point.
I also didn’t want to make my mom seem like a jerk, if a guy was having genuine discomfort or brought up size as a serious issue she certainly wouldn’t have humiliated him.
Ahhhh….I am liking this thread so much more now that undfreeland seems to have pissed off.
Warm, friendly birthday & anniversary wishes, safe sex, stories of happy couple-hood, healthy sex lives, sexy historical figures, and random trivia.
And food.
My kind of thread.
*waves at kittehs*
Glad you are having a good start to your birthday weekend!
I had a friend who swore he tried wearing condoms but they bruised him around the base of his cock.
When I mentioned that you could stretch them over a large cucumber, he said, “There’s no blood in that cucumber”. I dropped the subject. I was not personally invested in the matter.
I don’t think he was bluffing. I suppose I could call him up and ask if he ever found a size that fit him, but that would be awkward.
Lea: from personal experience, I’ve had a similar problem. It’s an issue of trying to apply something cylindrical to something that isn’t (necessarily). It’s pretty much impossible to come up with a One Size Fits All condom, because there’s not only variance in size, but shape (bigger at the bottom, bigger at the top, bent, curved, twisted!).
Pretty much the same problem as breasts and bras, in other words, except bras don’t drastically change fit based on blood flow. 😛
Und: @pecunium, it still was the best month of my life despite the complications, but no, I can’t imagine what long term would be like, and neither can you, apparently.
That made me laugh. I don’t need to imagine it. I have it. My wife just came down from making some rice so I can make a pilau to put under the cumin mustard chicken for supper. She’s reclined at the foot of my bed; asking about some of the yarn in my shelves.
Our other partner just came home from work, and we have a houseguest coming. We will be social. The garden is going well (the first batch of beans is hitting the exponential growth stage. I have poppies in bloom, dill in leaf, oregano ready to start harvesting. Later I will probably spin some yarn. Perhaps I will do some fencing (swords, not perimeter). Snuggling has taken place. More snuggling will happen.
When she see me, she lights up . The same happens when I see her. We can look across a room and just smile at each other, and a bad time becomes more bearable; a good time becomes better.
So yeah, go ahead and tell me how I can’t imagine it. Better thing is… this isn’t the first time I’ve had that sort of relationship. Best thing is I have exes with who much of that still exists.
It it perfect? No. Nothing in life is perfect, but it’s fucking great. It doesn’t suck to be me.
Somehow it seems you can’t say the same.
I also never called her shallow or amoral.
Not in so many words. You just bemoaned that when she went away, she also stopped seeing you.
And I have been actively working to make myself more interesting to women, especially working in directing and amplifying and following patterns of behavior that puas refuse to admit is just playing hard to get. It won’t get me hotties, but average chicks are blown away by it as long as I don’t screw up and loose frame.
You don’t get it. That’s not making yourself interesting.* That’s the “PlayStation Model of Sex”. If you just make the right moves (“don’t lose frame”) then women will spread their legs.
Nonsense. When I say I don’t worry about it… I don’t worry about it. When I go to a dance, I don’t care how I look to, “The Hotties”. When I flirt with someone I flirt with them because I find it pleasant. I don’t do it to get them into bed.
I’ve even taught flirting, but you aren’t going to be any good at it, because there is only one secret to being a good flirt: sincerity. Whatever you say to a person you are flirting with has to be something you really believe.
Since you don’t believe women are real people, you can’t flirt. Which leaves you with Game. Good luck with that. Does Game work? Sort of. It tells men to talk to women, to engage with them. By doing that it increases the odds of successfully having sex with another person infinitely.
But that won’t lead to bliss. It might lead to fucking. If you were the sort of person who put another’s needs and interests at some level of parity it might even lead to good sex, and repeat performances. But, from the wealth of information you’ve shared here… I don’t see that as being likely.
So I don’t see you getting what you want (that long term “hottie” of a woman, who adores you leading to the state of “bliss: you can’t imagine). Because the needed empathy isn’t in you. You aren’t a whole person, and being a whole person is pretty much prerequisite for real bliss.
*If you want to be interesting, you have to care about something. Do something. You have to take an interest.
Me, I’m interesting. I have a fuck-ton of hobbies (a fuck-ton is more than a butt-load, it’s even more than a metric butt-load). In my time I’ve also had a lot of jobs.
I fence, spin, work metal, turn wood/do simple carpentry, keep orchids, write poems, collect knives and sword, cook, teach knife skills, keep orchids, do bonsai, sing, play pennywhistle, drink wine, make cocktails, act, dance, (English Country dancing, English Regency Dancing, West Coast Swing). I have done pottery, been a machinist, catered, worked pizza, been a studio projectionist. I was the model for the hero of a video game (both the game proper, and the cover). I’m a photographer, and I’ve written a book on the basics of dSLRs. I’ve been a newspaper reporter. I spent 16 years in the Army as an interrogator and interrogation instructor, I’ve travelled to speak at conferences on the subject of torture. I ride motorcycles. I climb rocks, and camp in the desert. I’ve been a small farmer. I do archery, and riflery (in which I used to compete: and which I taught in the Army). I make mead, and will probably soon take a stab at making beer.
I wear kilts from the moment the weather gets warm enough, until it gets too cold.
If you did one of those things, you’d be tons more interesting than you are now. If you had half a dozen hobbies you cared about the numbe of women who were interested in you, in whom you would find yourself also interested (and you’d find them interesting, because you shared an interest).
But you, you won’t do that, because you are too wordly. You’ve made yourself in a dwarf from C.S. Lewis “The Last Battle”. No matter who tries to tell you there is a better world outside the hell-hole you’ve made of your own skull, you won’t leave.
It’s just to fucking pleasant to blame the world for your choosing to be a shallow ass.
Lea: re condoms. Some work, some don’t. I’ve had some which made it feel as if there was a band round my dick, trying to cut it off at the base.
That’s been the usual point of real complaint for me… the way the ring/unrolled portion constricts (though some are oddly lacking in elasticity, and so end up splitting at the tip).
I loved that, pecunium. I know that feeling.
I think this is part of why I intensely dislike anyone trying to flirt with me (I don’t count mutual play with Mr K as flirting). It’s not just that it’s not reciprocated and downright offensive: it’s that I don’t believe it for a second. I read it as some man trying to get attention, not as someone actually interested in me. I never invite it and it makes my skin crawl on the mercifully rare occasions it happens.
LOL!
Underwhelming, that isn’t anything but boring. Playing hard to get just makes you look like the childish twit you are. You’re trying to put on an act, and people will see through that pretty damn quickly. You’re no more interesting than any PUA who thinks card tricks or juggling make him special. You’ll never be interesting, because you don’t care about things, as pecunium said, and you don’t care about people: you’re not interested in anyone, you don’t see other people as really being alive. It’d suck to be you.
I can attest that pecunium and his lovely new wife are absolutely adorable together. Makes me all “aww, that’s so sweet, that’s what I want” — the same way the *gasps, clutches pearls* elderly couple I sometimes see in the park here looks, they’ em both gotta be at least 70, and clearly love each other.
And a firefly just attempted to land in my mouth! Thank you little bug for being lit up at the time, off you go now!
I’m having more fun with the firefly that tried entering my mouth than troll boy seems to ever have. That’s sad.
And why am I outside? Well, I came out for a smoke and realized the BF would be home soon enough, and then the fireflies came out, so I’ve decided to stay out here and watch the pretty bugs until he gets home and I can surprise him. Guess I should turn off the light then, particularly since it confused the firefly!
Dude who says he’s good looking enough to model thinks women like him for his hobbies lol
And fencing? What? Do you live on a manor?
Was an interrogator in the army and thinks he’s fit to comment on any one else’s morality.
Believes sincerity is the key to flirting, man, things must really be different in Europe.
It would be awesome if that was true. But women don’t care if you have the same interests, as far as being attracted to someone goes. Nobody does. Sure that can form the basis of a solid relationship, but the initial Attraction that forms in the first few minutes of meeting someone is innate. You can’t do anything about it.
Beautiful people live on ignorance of the advantages they have.