Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.
Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.
Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.
He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.
When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.
Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.
This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …
Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.
Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.
High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.
wat
It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.
Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.
I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.
In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.
The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.
wat
Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.
You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.
That’s life. Life isn’t fair.
This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.
Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.
This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”
This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.
[citation needed]
He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.
How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!
I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.
Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?
The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.
Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.
All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.
Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.
Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.
Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.
Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.
If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.
And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.
Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.
It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.
I mean, what the fucking fuck.
Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.
Thanks, Alex! (Counting down, it’ll be my birthday in 90 minutes, lol. I’d better get to bed before then!)
While it’s true one faces less social obstacles based on how attractive they are to the public, that tells us precisely nothing about attractive people. It’s not like, if you’re attractive, you can’t be disadvantaged in other respects either so “Pretty people have good lives” isn’t necessarily true. Pretty people have easier lives with respect to judgement based on appearance than not-pretty (whatever that means) people.
And that’s all we know about pretty people based on their being pretty.
See, when I engage in activities that are likely to cause bruising (mainly biting), I say things like “Is it okay if I mark you?” or “Yes please, I like bruises, but keep it below the collar line,” and then we do, and then nothing is complicated.
I like biting. Really quite a lot. I’ve never needed to make excuses for marks. I did once need to wear a shirt instead of a v-neck t-shirt to church, but that’s it.
I got in serious big trouble when I went through a period of impulsively biting my ex’s upper arm at random and, yeah, the marks were drawing negative attention. He also disliked it. I stopped.
As someone who was once the younger “chick” dating an older dude, I can tell you that acquiring us takes a certain skill. I’m been updating Mr. FM about the progress of this thread, and he is frankly appalled at this notion that all you need to get a pretty young thang is a lot of money and the willingness to spend it. Mr. FM now realizes that there is a whole world of younger men hurtling towards a middle-age full of disappointment and despair as they set all their sights on the wrong way to attract high-quality women at the local College Nite. Since he is a noble and civic-minded man, he has decided to step in and provide the insight and level-headed advice that any future seeker of youth and beauty will need for ultimate success.
So with much fanfare, I would like to give you a sneak peek at the new self-help book that Mr. FM and I are putting together in our spare time (okay, he’s doing most of the brain-work, but he’s decided to share credit since I’m such a good typist!). The instruction manual that dozens of men are waiting for [drumroll, please!!!!] –
The Old Dude Guide to Pulling High Quality Women
The topics Mr. FM will cover are many and varied, and he’s still hashing out the full list. But this easy-to-follow, down-to-earth guide will definitely cover include such vital chapters as:
*What the Hell Is a YOLO? – The catchphrases of youth change rapidly, and the truly sophisticated OPA (Older Polished Alpha) needs to keep up. Mr. FM gives you all the cheats you need to figure out exactly what the kids these days are saying, and slip it seamlessly into whatever useless conversation is necessary with the 21 year old HB8+ you desire.
*Did I Mention the Benz? – Another whole chapter on the fine art of conversation, this time on how to effortlessly work in mentions of your vast wealth, boundless worldly experience, and leonine sexual prowess. Blatant bragging can be a turn-off to some oversensitive young ladies, but we all know the effect of a smoothly-placed mention of your pied-a-terre in Miami!
*Wow, These Jeans Are Tight – Fashion and grooming are areas an OPA really can’t neglect. Sure, you have more cash to splash than those buff young dudes, but how will she know that if you don’t catch her eye first? This section will tell you how to borrow the latest looks from the younger crowd while still maintaining your own individuality, and give you tips on accessories (fancy hats, gold rope chains, ID bracelets) that make you stand out from the crowd and broadcast your disposable income.
*Home Staging, It’s Not Just for Real Estate Agents – Ideally, you’ll be going back to her place afterwards (watch out for futons, they are killer on your back after a certain age). But it never hurts to be prepared! Here’s where you learn how to hide all the tell-tale bits and pieces (certain prescription meds, reading glasses, issues of Modern Maturity), that might hurt your chances of a repeat performance with your new ingenue. If you want a repeat performance, of course.
*Mutton Dressed As Lamb – Chicks can be incredibly deceptive. Some of them can manage to look good even when they’re super old. This is a patch of quicksand that even the most experienced OPA can stumble into, and in this chapter you’ll find tips to swim your way to safety! Learn the tells that can indicate a woman who has lived a full and rich life, and learn how to get the hell away from her without causing insult or personal injury to yourself. There might be young hotties nearby, you know, and you don’t want them to think you’re ageist or anything.
*You Gotta Know When to Fold ‘Em – Sooner or later the jig is up. You’ll get to the point where you’re tired of the chase, or when you realize that the girls you’re pulling are slipping in quality from “high” to “well above average.” This means it’s time to print off the pre-nup and choose a lifemate! Now, keep an open mind, this isn’t the death sentence that you think! You’ll need someone to take care of you in your eventual decline, and even if she gets old and ugly on you, you can just take off your glasses.
So far the proposal that we’ve shopped around to agents and major publishers has been met with kind of mixed responses, like “This is disgusting” or “Grossly antifeminist,” or “What is wrong with you?” We may end up self-publishing in the end, which could be a boon in of itself since it will make updating the content much easier. But don’t worry, young men who are pining for a brighter future – help is on the way.
😀
Solipsism troll is boring. Happy cat haikus or GTFO.
Happy Birthday Kittehs! *throws glitter*
It’s Friday morning where I am, but happy birthday, kitteh!
Can we get the boring, shallow troll banned? Has anyone been banned for being too boring? Is that a Mammoth thing? How many times can we read posts about how he expects to find a woman/women to validate his pathetic existence?
And like all “Nice Guy” assholes he has to insult the very women he wants. In this idiot’s case, beautiful women are “shallow” (when in fact, that’s his problem in spades). Yeah, whatever, dudebro. Actually beautiful women, as a collective, must be brilliant because they managed to avoid you so far. You think women can’t sense it when a man just wants to use them for an ego boost? They can.
We can also smell a creepy sexist a mile away.
I’m 25, boyfriend is 39, and I would not sleep with und for any price. Not if I would never have to work again, not if he looked like Ryan Gosling and had a tongue made out of the finest silk (not that he would bother to use it anyway). Not if he could introduce me to the ghost of Freddie Mercury. I would not sleep with und if he could bring back Firefly. Not for any price!
::standing ovation for Mr Flying Mouse’s contribution to the welfare of
old dudeshumanity!::It’s officially my birthday now!
::chucks Tracy’s glitter around::
So much for getting to bed. 😛 Looking up Mr K-related pics is way too absorbing.
That sounds like an excellent way to start your birthday. Have a happy one, kittehserf!
I need to add a caveat to my teal deer above. Having a rich and full life is not in any way, shape or form only the province of older people. I’ve met eighteen-year-olds who’ve lived circles around me in all the best ways.
Thanks, Flying Mouse! 😀
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III:
And here I’d gone almost a week without laugh-spurting tea all over myself.
Also, just wanted to say that this super-long thread has been super interesting reading for me over the past few days. You all seem to have really interesting projects and hobbies and relationships and furry companions. Thread is too long for me to respond to people in individually, but thank you all for sharing, I really love that this is such an open and frank community!
Argenti, the world of fish now seems vast and fascinating to me and if I had any prospect of being in the same country for longer than a year right now, I would seriously consider an aquarium.
Flying Mouse, you are winning this entire thread with your beautifully crafted account of your relationship with Mr. FM according to Undfreeland’s Rules of the Dating Market.
Kittehserf, happy birthday, hope it’s a lovely one!
Oh, underpantsonhead, I wish you could quit us.
Am I too late to wish kittens a happy birthday? HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
I’m at an actual conference. You know, the kinds with lots of people at it, enthusiastically attending multiple standing-room-only sessions.
I bet MRAs wonder what that’s like. XD
Omnicrom,
So far, so good. I just like how off the wall the concept is. I like the horror of the Titans themselves combined with the corruption of humanity and the futility the characters fear. (It’s almost like it’s a metaphor for something. /s) The animation is great.
That said, we started a new episode last night and it felt like we’d missed an episode, because it just started in a new place with new characters. It was to choppy. We ended up going to bed half way through. I’m not giving up on it though. I’m too curious to see what happens next.
Happy birthday, Kittehs! I hope the cake is tasty.
*too choppy*
If women are interesting, frugal or liberal they must be uggos?
LOL!
This empty, ignorant, shlub is a walking talking stereotype.
Those grapes are so fucking sour.
RE: cassandrakitty
There are tons of dishes from the Levant, North Africa, and so on that are intended to be eaten at room temperature that aren’t salads.
Please share! I’m kinda having trouble, since due to a mix of ED stuff, meal plan, and culinary knowledge, I mostly know hot meals that heat up the place.
RE: Kittehs
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! *throws confetti and sparkles at your head*
LOL does trolly think he’s going to get back in the job market after leaving it for ten years?
Don’t remind me. It’s one of my fears regarding being legally disabled. 🙁 At least I’m arting?
RE: undfreeland
But the way I live, and plan to live to build up money, I don’t think many people would be happy with.
Dude, my husband and I were HOMELESS together for a year. But I guess we’re just magical unicorn people and really he spends all my money on… I dunno, hot pants and cockjazzling.
And we HAVE traveled the world together. It was great. But then, I notice you’re basically pretending I don’t exist, because I don’t fit into your stupid little paradigm.
RE: Lea
There will be cigarettes and if I go, I will smoke. If I smoke, I will hate myself.
Aw, I hear your pain. I’ve had to do shit like that for ED reasons. (No delaying meals for yoga or parties!) It sucks, but you are making the right choice. Stand strong!
@duckbunny, well, her deal is more like criss-crossing my arm with a piece of chirt before she had me scratch her in patterns all over her body
I really think the repetitios “no one would never sleep with you” thing is hilarious. Plenty of women have. So far, 13, and I’ve got plenty of years to go.
@katz, cus I missed it earlier. She may not actually believe in the things she says (this is assuming she is not a troll) but being committed to the whole god thing means she most likely would not be into an atheist
@lbt, you certainly exist, but you are correct. My attractions and relationship desires are squarely heterosexual and gender normative. Your experiences are fascinating, and it really does piss me off that individuals such as yourself face so much discrimination and hardship. It is highly irrational. But, yeah, your experiences have very little baring on what I’m saying
Also, undfreeland’s fantasies about happiness have led me to a more interesting thought thread, which is on the nature of happiness.
I read somewhere that even if we COULD lounge around on a tropical beach all the time, after a time, most of us would get sick of it and want to do something else. A lot of people gain happiness not from having no challenge, but overcoming challenges and DOING something meaningful.
For me, at least, this has proved true. I’m able to overcome shit like the Bad Years by knowing that I am doing something useful for people. My comics have taught people new things, entertained them, and in some cases, changed their lives. (That’s not hyperbole either.) My stories have made people laugh and cry.
Sure, I could’ve done without some of those challenges, and I want to work towards a world where nobody has to suffer rape or homelessness or hunger. But my sense of purpose has so far gotten me through these things.
It isn’t about what the world can do for ME. It’s about what I can do for the world and the people I care about.