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Creepy comment of the day: If men can't get "the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl," naturally they'll start shooting people.

Banana slug: A better role model for horny humans than bonobos?
Banana slug: A better role model for horny humans than bonobos?

Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.

Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.

Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.

He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.

When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.

Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.

This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …

Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.

Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.

High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.

wat

It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.

Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.

I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.

In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.

The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.

wat

Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.

You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.

That’s life. Life isn’t fair.

This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.

Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.

This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.

I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”

This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.

[citation needed]

He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.

How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!

I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.

Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?

The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.

Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.

All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.

Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.

Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.

Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire  self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.

Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.

If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.

And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.

Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.

It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.

I mean, what the fucking fuck.

Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.

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katz
6 years ago

You feel relaxed after playing Civ FOUR?

JK, of course. Everyone has strong opinions about their preferred Civ version. I will say that the Civ IV menu is hella relaxing.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Kim, where have I said I think all games are like that? You’re including yourself in a comment I made about trollboy. I do play a couple of games myself, so what makes you think I’m talking about all of them, or saying skeevy wanktroll = all gamers? Seriously, I apologised for my initial comment being poorly worded because I don’t think that.

kittehserf
6 years ago

In short: Kim, please stop putting words in my mouth. I do not think GTA = all games, or that trollboy = all gamers, and I’d appreciate it if you’d knock off talking as if I’ve ever said that.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

pecunium

Flash Point: It’s a co-operative game.

Not competitive at all. Everyone is playing on the same team. It’s about fighting fires. If you rescue enough people, you win. If you don’t, you lose. People can die, or the building can collapse; which is how you fail to rescue enough people.

Snap! Yesterday, daughter and SIL introduced us to Pandemic. It’s either everyone wins or everyone loses, just like real life epidemics. We lost, despite “curing” 3 of the 4 diseases involved. It’s a fantastic game for 2 to 7 people. Playing with fewer than the maximum means that you will miss out on some advantageous special skills, but you will run out of options much more quickly too. We lacked both a medic/doctor and a scientist. Lord knows if we’d have won with them rather than the specialist skills we actually drew.

This wiki description of the game isn’t quite the same as the more recent version we played. I’d recommend it to anyone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic_(board_game)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Not caught up but “Having strong preferences about stuff like this seems to lead to strife.” Yeah, we just put it on our own way when we change it, so it actually sorta makes finishing the roll fun, in a “yes, I get to have the TP my way!” sense. I’m weird.

And with the loose bit at the bottom, because my mother is right, it’s easier to find the end that way.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Und — sincere flirting may result in getting laid less than lies, flattery will get you everywhere after all, but saying things you mean? More likely to result in mutual interest and discussing things you care about. For example…

Athywren, if you see this, I ended up installing a second copy of vista to play the latest VtM:B patch, WORTH IT! WESP redid the Hallowbrook and Beckett has a side quest for you. So weird walking into places with NO CLUE what to expect, in a game I’ve been playing on and off for a decade!

Pecunium — oh well, I was only off by an inch.

Onto the last page then!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

There’s a pandemic app too, sorta. I prefer Plague over Infection, but they’re both the same idea.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

You can’t base your opinion of all games on one game you’ve only heard one thing about. Most games are on par with movies in their sexism, and some manage to not be sexist at all beyond making the main character a white dude.

I would say the gaming industry is considerably more sexist than the movie industry. That said, it is possible to critique the media you consume without rejecting it outright. It kind of seems like you’re denying the sexism in certain games because they are games that you like. You can still enjoy them and also recognize that they’re problematic in certain ways.

Isabelle
Isabelle
6 years ago

“That said, it is possible to critique the media you consume without rejecting it outright. It kind of seems like you’re denying the sexism in certain games because they are games that you like. You can still enjoy them and also recognize that they’re problematic in certain ways.”

From my own experience with comic books, I think you develop a sort of blindness to the gender or race bias. At first, I was somewhat shocked by the criticism of misogyny popping all over in recent years. I am slowly working my way through them, and definitely some of them are valid. But I will say that at times, its just easier to enjoy reading graphic novels rather than embark on an in-depth analysis of them. I would assume many woman gamers feel the same about their hobby. One of my favorite author, Alan Moore, has been the object of lots of controversy. I will admit, I did not bother reading most of it. At the end of the day, there are only so many comics that I am willing to read with the goal of “gender critique” at the forefront. What I am really hoping for is for the sexism in the industry directed female artists to be knock down so that there will be more awesome books created by women that I can enjoy.

Isabelle
Isabelle
6 years ago

gah…sorry for the poor English of the last post. English syntax is my nemesis.

Alex
6 years ago

This is the thread that doesn’t end
Yes it goes on and on, my friends
Some people started commenting, not knowing what it was!
And we’ll continue commenting forever just because…!

I’m really interested to know how Undies possibly thought his whole beautiful-women-make-me-feel-validated would go over well amongst feminists. I mean most MRA/PUA types know what they say will piss us off. This fool actually expected his sentiments would receive sympathy.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Catching up from last night. 2100 comments +, I am proud of us! 🙂

I orignally typed a long and involved response to und’s assertion that changing demographics will sort out any U.S. gerrymandering and reproductive healthcare issues. Then I deleted it because I doubt und will read it and everyone else already knows everything I said, I’m sure. Short version: sure, things might work out just dandy, but how many right will be lost while this process is playing out? By the time we achieve liberal* dominance, we might have a new normal where a six-week window is available for an elective abortion, which you can only access after you go through a battery of invasive and expensive medical procedures done in an extremely limited number of locations.

*don’t even get me started on how far to the right that the mainstream “left” has become.

“Small, dank, chilly. Very little sunlight. No amenities. Roommates, pets forbidden. Prime location! A real fixer-upper for the soul who wants a challenge!!”

TIL that snorting sparkling water through my nose is both painful and unbecoming!

I’m really interested to know how Undies possibly thought his whole beautiful-women-make-me-feel-validated would go over well amongst feminists.

I think we were supposed to give him a cookie because he didn’t dismiss feminism out of hand. In fact, he finds it “useful.” Poor guy doesn’t realize that cookies are thin on the ground here. We keep them for ourselves.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

At the end of the day, there are only so many comics that I am willing to read with the goal of “gender critique” at the forefront.

This is totally understandable. There’s a difference between deliberately reading something critically and inadvertently picking up on issues in the course of reading. I’m talking more about the latter.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

well, my guess based on his age, blandness and general jerkitude (and not having seen any comments of his referring directly to the games he likes) I’d guess online FPS, which ignore women entirely. I can’t think of any games that would make me side-eye a guy for liking. I just played Deadpool, which had some questionable moments, because Deadpool is an arsehole, but that doesn’t say anything about someone who plays it.

I know you don’t play games, and I think you assume they are far worse than they are.

In the latest Tropes vs. Women post there were a hell of lot more than 1 game in which players are rewarded for killing sex workers. There were also a ton of games that require the male main character to go into brothels or strip clubs. None of the sex workers had any personality and were not there for any purpose other than titillating the players who the game developers assume are all straight men. Then there was that game that made the news recently (I think it was Assassins Creed but am not positive) because they had planned on including female main characters but changed their minds because it would have been too hard to do.

Of course enjoying problematic games doesn’t make you make a misogynistic asshole but if someone already has those tendencies, sexist games reinforce them. It’s not a surprise that websites for video games and the social aspects of some of them of the games themselves are filled with misogynists. I read the comments section at Kotaku from time to time and it’s just appalling. It’s like a slightly more articulate version of the Yahoo news comments.

According to the video, men who play sexist games expressed more sexist sentiments after playing than men who didn’t play a sexist game. So I think it’s perfectly fair to be critical of the gaming industry and it’s also fair to suspect that a gamer who views women as two dimensional sex objects might just be playing lots of sexist games. That doesn’t mean all gamers are the same.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Finally caught up with the 2,000 + post thread!

undfreeland:

If there were other things I liked, I’d be doing them. I keep up with the news and read a lot of history, but that stuff doesn’t really have any applications outside of my own head.
I also do like to go out drinking.

I…really? You see no other application for current events and history outside of your own head? Because there’s literally no one else in the entire world that are also interested in current events and history. Because current events aren’t, I don’t know, happening right now and are therefor relevant to everyone?

You, sir, are an idiot.

Random, but both my husband and I are interested in politics and history. Some of our best dates involved going to the local Half Price Books then either heading home and reading while curled up together on the couch or going to a bar with a decent selection of local and craft beers and trying new beers together. While bullshitting about politics and history. It’s fun. It’s fun to just enjoy another person’s company because you like them and have shared interests. My husband is not rich or supermodel-level attractive or cultured or well-traveled or a genius. But I think he’s the sexiest man who ever lived 🙂

undfreeland, you also know that you don’t have to have sex with or have relationships with women, right? I mean, the way you talk about sex and women it seems that you find both repulsive (besides the gorgeous lingerie model types, who you seem to regard as some kind of pretty piece of furniture or toy). There’s no law saying you have to have sex with women. You can just, y’know, not. And that’s completely and perfectly normal and ok to not desire and/or have sex. It really is.

This is whole, “I’m a complete cynic who thinks everyone everywhere is dishonest and manipulative and that makes me smart and super-edgy” thing is tedious.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

@Kittehs, romance novels. AllRomanceEbooks.com had a 30% off sale on Friday to make up for some technical glitches. The glitches didn’t affect me, but I glommed on that sale 😀

There was a sale on ebooks and you didn’t share with the class? I’d pout, but I already have a huge romance backlog to catch up on.

So Mac made me kale and goat cheese quesadillas to entice me. Best hubby. He can stay.

Aw. <3 Is it weird if I ship you guys?

(Related: my friend wants me to stand up and yell "It's canon, b*tches!" at the end of her wedding. I'm not even sure she's joking.)

I quote bell hooks: “Individuals who want to believe that there is no fulfillment in love, that true love does not exist, cling to these assumptions because this despair is actually easier to face than the reality that love is a real fact of life but is absent from their lives.”

Sad, but true.

@Katz, who is Doad?

pecunium
6 years ago

I missed this first time through:

If there were other things I liked, I’d be doing them. I keep up with the news and read a lot of history, but that stuff doesn’t really have any applications outside of my own head.

Dude… life, yer doin’ it wrong.

Putting aside the specific subject matter:

1: You asserted no one can really live, “outside one’s own head”, so in that regard the “lack of application” is negated, per your philosophy of living.

2: You are wrong (but it’s just a variation of the same tune you’ve been singing since you got here).

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that I was a member of the Undfreeland School of Getting Hot Chicks, and so needed to have something to feign interest in, that a Level 10 Big-Boobed Babe might stop and talk to me for long enough to find out what a Masculine Man, with Feminist Sensibilities I happen to be (and so want to drag me off to her Den of Decadant Diversions) I might decide to bone up on Pottery (figuring it’s a Girly Sort of thing, and that the Target Ratio [i.e. men:women] is likely to be in my favor, and less than stellar height, but acceptable looks are less likely to be compared to lots of men, and so probably kick up a level).

So I read up on it (and I take a class or two, so I have some understanding of things like wedging, throwing, hand-building, carving details/bases when the pot is leather hard, bisquing, firing, glazing, etc.. Why yes, I’ve done pottery, why do you ask?).

Then, when spending time in an arts and crafts store (because it’s a good place to meet women who craft, and beguile them with my manly nature) I can hang out in the pottery area, looking over the glazing chemicals, fingering the carving tools, fondling the elephant ear sponges (handing for getting a rounded edge), and chatting them up.

Then I can mention that I know this cool glaze, which is a warm khaki fired at cone 3-4, but turns a vibrant purple when fired up to cone 9, and we can discuss the vagaries of the Kiln Gods, and and how much opening a cooled kiln is like the anticipatory tension of opening presents on Christmas/birthdays, because you don’t ever really know what it’s going to look liked, etc.

And that’s something I could do, even now, though I’ve not thrown a pot in 10 years. It’s proven useful in my work, (I am semi-retired, the pension isn’t enough to make things like the month in England/Ireland, this summer, or the 8,000 mile motorcycle trip of four years ago, things I can just do at the drop of a hat). Some one came in looking for things to mold clay in, and we got to talking about when/how those tools (for baking) would be best used in pottery.

But no, you probably have the best of it. No point in having fun reading on how Wellington’s use of the Rifle Regiments affected the Peninsular Campaign; and let him take on some of the best generals/marshals France had; and so gain solid experience of how to best use limited resources; which led to his being able to set up a position which was strong (if not completely unassailable) while Napoleon still had the idea that he was only really good fighting “natives” (since Wellington cut his teeth in campaigns for the E. India Company, notably against the Tippoo Sultan, most notably at the Battle of Assaye), and so made headlong assaults; against the advice of those who had fought him in, “The sideshow” of Spain and Portugal.

…or how the Siege of Troy was more like a beachead based asault with the resources on what is now the Gallipolean Peninsula as a supply base, nor how the Trojans lack of naval power made it hard for them to deny the Acheaens the ability to raid the Troad at will, and so it was a question of political maneuvering with the Hittites which kept them from being overrun; but even at that the impetuosity of putting the Greeks into a state of peril, rather than letting them wear themselves out (which they were doing) and head home because maintaining an expeditionary force was too expensive: and then applying the implicit lessons learned to the modern day, so that you can engage in conversation with people who have similar interests, or use them as examples when discussing things which they parallel (not all of which are going to be current events/politics, The Trojan War is pretty good for discussing anthropology, and economics)

Nope, money and liquor, those are probably better keys to bliss, all that other stuff is wasted effort.

katz
6 years ago

I really like cooperative board games. I haven’t played Flash Point yet because our friends who were into cooperative games found that one too scary. (But they were OK with Pandemic. Go figure.)

The thing is that, even though they’re noncompetitive, they can still be incredibly stressful. Forbidden Island is the one that gets me; it totally triggers my AAAAAAAGH THE ISLAND IS SINKING THE ISLAND IS SINKING OH NO WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE response. Fun though.

@Katz, who is Doad?

My hubby 🙂

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

This is whole, “I’m a complete cynic who thinks everyone everywhere is dishonest and manipulative and that makes me smart and super-edgy” thing is tedious.

It’s tedious because it’s lazy, desperately unoriginal and too damn easy. Any buffoon can be a cynic: it just involves saying “no” at every possible opportunity.

And if you actually convince yourself that everyone everywhere is dishonest and manipulative, then you’re setting yourself up for a very sad and possibly even paranoid life – so why do it?

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

@Isabelle and Bunny: I think it’s nearly impossible to only consume non-sexist, non-racist, non-ableist etc culture, because, well, duh, prejudice is literally everywhere. I think most feminists have their personal bar for when sexism in a game/comic/book/TV series/movie becomes too much and makes the thing impossible to enjoy (I know I have). But there will be stuff that you recognize as having some problems with sexism although it still doesn’t reach your personal bar, so you still enjoy it. (And the same goes for racism etc). That’s perfectly okay.
But people really should acknowledge that the stuff they like do have these problems. Not just angrily defend everything they like against “accusations” from feminists, nor bang on the big feminist drum for a game/comic/book/TV series/movie just because, idk, it has one or two female characters with some kind of personality who aren’t presented as sex objects.

undfreeland
6 years ago

@Kim, nope. I mostly play grand strategy games like Civ and Crusader Kings. That and rpg’s Really only Skyrim in the past few years, but some old bioware ones and, as one poster mentioned, bloodlines. Occasionally I buy the cheap indy games. Some of them are pretty good. I actually do not enjoy online fps’s at all.

@Flying Mouse, I would have definitely read it. I don’t often interact with people that have nuanced opinions on these sorts of things. Unfortunately.
What you did say was valid. I never thought about what the state could be, by the time things came around.
And, honestly, the Supreme Court decision today has deflated my hopes a bit.

@sparky and pecunium, I’ve met women that are interested in politics and history. And video games. Women I have been attracted to. Not since moving to my current location, but I used to. They were never interested in me, anyway. It’s because interests can only build rapport after there is an initial reaction, and they are not attracted to me, as my looks are not good enough to counter-balance a persona which comes across as distinctly unsexual. (before anyone jumps on me for being a “nice guy” that’s not what I’m doing. I don’t begrudge them for wanting to have sex with people they find attractive and know what the hell is going on.)

pecunium
6 years ago

katz: I really like cooperative board games. I haven’t played Flash Point yet because our friends who were into cooperative games found that one too scary. (But they were OK with Pandemic. Go figure.)

It was stressful. It’s funny, I had some of the same mindset fighting those fires, as I’ve had in firefights. Lots of trying to see to it that one could, “fire and move”, would have someone to lay down supporting fires as we moved deeper into the building; and then the stupid bursts of, “heroism” when there was a chance to gain some advantage.

We’ll be playing with it some more tonight, because пропытка не пытка*

*practice isn’t torture, or to try/attempt something, isn’t torture. I heard that one a lot when we were studying spanish.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

I haven’t played this, but I saw a news clip about it a few years ago: http://store.toolboxfored.org/co-opoly-the-game-of-co-operatives/

Instead of playing Monopoly to learn how to be a greedy capitalist, you play Coopoly to learn how to work together and win together. Everyone on the news clip seemed to have enjoyed it.

@Dvärghundspossen, good point. As mentioned upthread, I read romance novels, which get a horrible rap in the popular press for some pretty frustrating reasons. There are HUGE numbers of romance readers who have published reams of papers that talk critically about problematic tropes and trends. There’s even an annual academic symposium. Or conference. Or some kind of gathering. I’m pretty sure it draws more than a hundred people, too. Romance has gone way, way beyond the Love’s Lusty Rash bodice-rippers of yore.

(This seems a little off-topic, but in my fuzzy brain, it refers back to the video games/ movies / comics thing. Sorry, not enough sleep last night.)

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

unfreeland: Yes, yes, yes; we know you’re miserable because you don’t get to fuck supermodels because you’re not rich and don’t look like a supermodel yourself and that makes your life so fucking unfair and boo-hoo-hoo, nevermind, people all just use each other and lie, oh woe is me. There’s nothing I can do to find enjoyment in life if an HB10 doesn’t just walk through my door and start worshipping me! Boo-hoo-hoo!

You’re making your own life miserable, and all this whining is getting really fucking boring.

katz
6 years ago

I actually do not enjoy online fps’s at all.

Undfreeland doesn’t like something? Color me shocked.

We’ll be playing with it some more tonight, because пропытка не пытка*

*practice isn’t torture, or to try/attempt something, isn’t torture. I heard that one a lot when we were studying spanish.

Ooh, that I can definitely use, although the rhyme doesn’t work in English.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

@Unimaginative

My favourite book ever is a romance. It’s also classified as fantasy, but the primary storyline is romantic. I got it from a bargain bin and it was the best dollar I ever spent. I’ve read it so many times and every time I look forward to the ending.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29143.Taming_the_Forest_King

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@undfreeland – I really didn’t think you’d be interested. I’m sorry, I misjudged you on that one.

The short version above is basically what I wrote before; I also took some space to mention how a few right-wing and religious organizations have decided to switch their focus from defeating gay rights to undermining reproductive choice. Those groups need something to whip their bases into a voting frenzy. I then got into how the conservatives at the present moment have a great many deep-pocket donors behind, coffers that are even wider open thanks to Citizen’s United and the recent removal of donation caps, and about twenty years’ entrenched power on the state level in quite a few places in the Deep South (otherwise how would they get on the committees to redraw electoral maps?). Taking all that into account, I think they’ll be able to resist the demographic shifts for quite a while, and that abortion rights and even contraceptive access will continue to be chipped away piece by piece until something comes to a head.

I’m not sure how to stop the bleeding either, besides crossing my fingers and hoping things shake out well in the presidential election and that certain Supreme Court justices choose to retire in the *very* near future.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Argenti

send Mac over here, he needs to know that I have a thing for redheads!

I don’t know… he might be a bit tanky for you… 😉 But he is a very sincere flirter! (Part of why it’s so effective; I’d never had someone honestly compliment my eyes before and apparently even the most defensively macho guy can melt for that shit.)

RE: scott1139

I really need to read some of her books…

Yes you do. Bell Hooks is a savvy woman, and also one of the most accessible writers on her subjects I’ve read. I like her!

RE: undfreeland

I also do like to go out drinking.

OH GOD YOU’RE ALFIE AREN’T YOU? That or my brother. Please don’t be my brother.

RE: Isabelle

One of my favorite author, Alan Moore, has been the object of lots of controversy.

Ohhhh lord. *bites tongue* I have Professional and Personal Feelings about the USA comics industry, but I will hold back or I’ll start bloviating like undfreeland over there.

RE: emilygoddess

Aw. <3 Is it weird if I ship you guys?

You would not be the first. I can accept this. (Hubby is also continuing being wonderful despite me having still no appetite for food and plus horrible nightmares last night. Bleh, fucking brain.)

katz
6 years ago

There are two kinds of people: People who ship Rogan and Mac and people who don’t ship them because they want to hook up with Mac.

kittehserf
6 years ago

According to the video, men who play sexist games expressed more sexist sentiments after playing than men who didn’t play a sexist game. So I think it’s perfectly fair to be critical of the gaming industry and it’s also fair to suspect that a gamer who views women as two dimensional sex objects might just be playing lots of sexist games. That doesn’t mean all gamers are the same.

WWTH, thank you.

It’s because interests can only build rapport after there is an initial reaction, and they are not attracted to me, as my looks are not good enough to counter-balance a persona which comes across as distinctly unsexual.

You think rapport is only about fucking? Seriously, how do you ever make any friends? Also, has it occurred to you that women might very well like an unsexual vibe from a man? Whatever a “sexual persona” might be, it sounds like something I’d want to get away from, fast. What makes you think a woman happily engaged in talking about a subject of mutual interest necessarily wants sex intruding into the conversation? If anything, that makes it bleeding obvious the guy’s NOT interested in her, or the subject, he’s only interested in fucking. And that makes him 1) uninteresting and 2) a skeevy wannabe predator, especially if they’re barely acquainted.

Sex doesn’t have to derive from instant physical attraction, y’know. Heaps of people are friends long before they’re lovers. Heaps of people stay friends and never become lovers and are happy and enriched, because fucking really isn’t all there is to life.

Romance has gone way, way beyond the Love’s Lusty Rash bodice-rippers of yore.

Romance for dermatologists!

kittehserf
6 years ago

::looks up meaning of ship in this context::

Ah! Count me in the first category.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: katz

There are two kinds of people: People who ship Rogan and Mac and people who don’t ship them because they want to hook up with Mac.

You actually made me laugh today, which I didn’t think was possible. (Nothing’s wrong, just nightmares and brain chugging along doing stuff in the background slowing me down.) May I repost this upon tumblr?

RE: Kittehs

Sex doesn’t have to derive from instant physical attraction, y’know.

No kidding. I didn’t feel attracted to my husband till I’d known him for a couple months! He took even longer!

kittehserf
6 years ago

LBT, yeah, and people can know each other for years before they get physically attracted. Or – shock horror – the physical attraction can come about as a result of liking/developing affection for/falling in love with the other person. The body becomes attractive because of who it houses.

Undiesonhishead wouldn’t believe such an heretical notion, of course.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

@Kim, Sold! Um, as soon as I track down a legal copy of the ebook.

Isabelle
Isabelle
6 years ago

@Flying Mouse

“I also took some space to mention how a few right-wing and religious organizations have decided to switch their focus from defeating gay rights to undermining reproductive choice. Those groups need something to whip their bases into a voting frenzy.”

Have you seen the documentary “The Mormon Proposition”? That is one of the best doc about ‘real politik” that I ever watched. I have still not seen “the Case against 8” so I cant comment.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Und — what FM, today’s decision? I’ve come to expect that shit and hope to be wrong. I’m not gonna hold my breath. With the current situation, under a democrat, I do NOT want to ponder what will happen to a repub wins the next presidency.

LBT — yeah, maybe a bit tanky, but I hear he makes up for it by being a sweetheart.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Wow

*what FM said, and today’s decision?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Kittehs

The body becomes attractive because of who it houses.

Yes, indeed! And now because of hubby, he’s basically influenced my tastes in men for life.

RE: Argenti

Also really awful penis puns. But it’s a feature, not a bug, right?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Oh, also, a friend of mine is trying to signalboost, so I link this guy to my fellow Mammoths! He is apparently a cool guy with cool things to say about robots, social justice, and various thinky thoughts. Maybe he’s y’all’s cup of tea?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Have you seen the documentary “The Mormon Proposition”? That is one of the best doc about ‘real politik” that I ever watched.

No, I haven’t! I just looked it up, and it looks like it will inform and infuriate me. I’ll have to save it for a Friday so that I can watch it with an adult beverage and rant accordingly.

There are times when I think that church involvement in politics may be the thing that drives me from live-and-let-live agnostic straight into anti-theist. One of the larger cities in my area tried to pass a human rights ordinance a few years back; it was the standard stuff, mainly prevented people from discriminating based on sexual preference or gender identity. It went down by a narrow margin in the city council. The following Sunday, one of the largest churches in the town invited all of the council members who had voted down the bill to their main service, praised the council members’ commitment to religious freedom, and then had them stand as their names were called and receive a thunderous round of applause. Being Christ-like, what’s that all about again?

Ugh. I hope that I didn’t offend anyone who’s religious. Churchgoers do a tremendous amount of good in the world; most of the charities in my area are faith-based, and their people do remarkable things. And I know all churches themselves aren’t like that. But far too many – including my old one, from a supposedly liberal denomination – are.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Anyone want to guess what type of people are fun to hang out with, even if they look awful?

People who actually have fun.

Mom and dad story: My mom literally married the first single man she met in Alaska.

But… They knew era bother for a good three months — worked together on a volunteer ambulance crew, even! — before my mom sat down and realized that she really, really enjoyed his company. She then decided that she could consider him kind of cute.

Then, she asked him out.

Thing about my dad: his face really reminds me of an albino raven. His hair was brown when she met him, so maybe she saw a dusty albino raven. He’s not tall, more medium. Taller than me! But I’m short.

He’s not the handsomest bloke.

As they’ve become lighter haired and lightly wrinkled together, mom’s decided he’s the most handsome man in the world. When she first saw him? Cute would be charitable.

But, he’s got an awesome laugh, he smiles easily, he has a great sense of humor. He loves building and designing things — even though, as an engineer, he hold architects in high disdain — and they can spend hours just talking.

They share music in common. He plays bass, her guitar. They started a band. Since grandpa was a preacher, they ended every one of their early gigs with mom singing “Son of a Preacher Man”.

They be awesome together, because they have fun together.

My mom was very pretty. Dad still insists she’s beautiful, even though her eyes have hooded, her jaw has some extra skin, and her hair has streaks of silver. He dislikes the rare times when she wears makeup, because he loves her face, wrinkles and all. She hates makeup herself, so all’s win!

They’re adorable together.

He has a pointy jaw, usually scruffy. No square jaws in this family! Yet.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Contrapangloss, combined squees and fistpumps here for your parents!

Anyone starting to think undiesonhishead is an A? (That’s an AI that missed out on the intelligence bit. He’s got the artificial part covered.)

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

@Katz: You feel relaxed after playing Civ FOUR?

I find playing the “Rise from Erebus” mod on that both absorbing and relaxing. It’s got the pattern of incremental little rewards down to a fine addictive art – you slowly work towards your goal, unleash your forces in a glorious mad bloodfest on the opponent – and then notice that the world is, literally, going all to hell, complete with deserts of lava marching towards your borders 8-(

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Und,
You know your “friend” is dishonest and insincere and into posturing an toxic masculinity that says all men are in competition like you are, but you believe him when he says he’s got a bang’n sex life?
I bet you’d by a bridge from him too.

Also, “My friend is a phony and he says he get’s laid alot”, even if true, in no way means that people who are sincere do not have plenty of sex and they get the added benefit of actually liking the people they have sex with.

As to video games and socializing: Everyone, excluding me, in my household are gamers. Halo, Saint’s Row, Minecraft etc. are popular here. My daughter’s Xbox friends are as important to her as her local in the flesh friends. Her besty games. Her bf games. He was giving pointers to my youngest son today while they played together. My husband games with the kids. Gaming can be very social. It can be something families do together.

Gaming is wildly popular. If Und can’t find other people who share his interests, he just isn’t looking.

I don’t game but I am the one with the most problematic interests. My taste in books, music and film is not erudite and completely progressive. I may well one day outgrow those things but I haven’t yet.

Speaking of, You’re Next was great and it’s out in stores now. 😀

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger : Any comment on Thunderfoot’s latest parody of Tropes vs Women (apart from the “he’s an asshole” everybody already knows)?

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

@Unimaginative

If you find one, let me know. I would like to have a back up digital copy in case I ever lose my hard copy.

According to the video, men who play sexist games expressed more sexist sentiments after playing than men who didn’t play a sexist game. So I think it’s perfectly fair to be critical of the gaming industry and it’s also fair to suspect that a gamer who views women as two dimensional sex objects might just be playing lots of sexist games. That doesn’t mean all gamers are the same.

And yet it turns out Und here doesn’t play sexist games. And my bf and i who are both feminists play a large variety of games, some of which have sexist elements. We are both aware they are problematic, but we will keep playing them until we have other options. It’s almost as if general trends can’t be used to make assumptions about individuals.

My responses here are not against critiques of video games. Only against assumptions made in ignorance especially when they villify me, my lovely bf and many of my friends.

All I am asking for is the same care taken when making generalisations about gamers as is given to any other group of people around here.

cloudiah
6 years ago

@contrapangloss, Your parents sound adorable. That was a very sweet story, and I’m glad I read it.

pecunium
6 years ago

Justin: pecunium: To answer you. I am interested in all the facets of the question you presented regarding custodial parity. I was also interested in which facets you would tackle. I did not want to lead the witness. Please feel free to address any or all that you like.

Non-responsive.

One, you didn’t say you were interested in any aspects of the discussion. You posed an unanswerable yes or no question as if it were relevant; having loaded it with connotative language (female centric audience) implying there is a “correct” answer, and that the people here were going to get it wrong.

As to the “leading the witness” aspect of things, you failed. Yes no question do lead the witness. They are useful in a courtroom because individual lawyers aren’t interested in getting the truth, but in painting a picture which favors their client. As such the desire is to limit the response. so as to avoid introducing facts which run counter to the narrative interpretation beneficial to the story the attorney is trying to tell.

Futhermore how a yes/no pair is presented will influence the answer (your was worded in a way which, had the interrogotory been face to face, would tend to garner a yes response).

The question is still not able to be answered, as you have still failed to define your terms. which implies you aren’t asking in good faith. Reading your other comments/replies (even without your admission of trolling) makes this more apparent; which means any question you ask, which doesn’t have defined terms is probably being presented in such a way as to allow you to use it to declaim a lack of understanding/concern for something “important” or just an out right hostility to the male race.

Please feel free to address the reasons you 1: chose to engage classic trolling, 2: thought you were entitled to continue without let or hindrance, and 3: having admitted to doing a hurtful thing, knowingly; and with intent, you were surprised enough to attempt to shame people into allowing you to have the unfettered ability to do it again?

Having done that, feel free to explain why we should give a shit what you think; in light of your cavalier treatment of facts, asshole nature and inability to break comments into coherent elements; esp. in light of the less than coherent content.

pecunium
6 years ago

The fuck… my browser just flipped windows when I went to paste from notebook. Off to the correct thread with me,

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

My responses here are not against critiques of video games. Only against assumptions made in ignorance especially when they villify me, my lovely bf and many of my friends.

All I am asking for is the same care taken when making generalisations about gamers as is given to any other group of people around here.

I haven’t seen anything that vilifies and generalizes gamers though. I’m just saying we shouldn’t kid ourselves about the sexism that’s rife in the industry. Although I’m only into games that most people would say don’t count as gaming (like solitaire, puzzles and tetris) I enjoy problematic things sometimes too. After all I’m a horror movie fan. But I look at the genre with a critical eye and don’t mind if other people find it too problematic to deal with.