Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.
Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.
Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.
He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.
When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.
Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.
This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …
Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.
Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.
High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.
wat
It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.
Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.
I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.
In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.
The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.
wat
Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.
You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.
That’s life. Life isn’t fair.
This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.
Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.
This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”
This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.
[citation needed]
He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.
How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!
I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.
Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?
The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.
Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.
All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.
Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.
Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.
Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.
Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.
If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.
And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.
Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.
It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.
I mean, what the fucking fuck.
Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.
@ piratejennie
Changing the subject when the trolls get boring is totes encouraged.
I 2nd the rec for the former, btw 😀
I had soft boiled eggs with asparagus and a horseradish and dijon sauce for dinner myself. Washing it down with a nice chardonnay.
It brings me more bliss than undfreeland’s relationships brought him.
undfreeland: I really would like to know what it is that pisses you off so much about me. I support every major feminist initiative, I don’t feel entitled to sex with women. I just describe the world as I see it, in a way that harms no one.
The reason I am hostile to you is that you aren’t, “harming no one”. You are spouting misogynist, (and racist) tropes, which hurt women, and minorities (and also encourage other people to be more racist).
No, you can’t wipe that clean with trite assertions you are really are Mr. Uber-Feminist. The actual meaning of the words you use is such that you insist women have harmed the world with feminism; and that’s just the way it is. You also assert that the only way to “fix” the non-problems you are obsessing over is to have women surrender some of their autonomy; “for the menz”.
As to the racism… it’s foul. I’m “an unimpressive” white guy (to look at), and I’ve lived in parts of town which are infamous for being dangerous (and rightfully so). When I was living in E. Palo Alto it had just stopped being the city in the US with the highest rate of murder. We had a kid gunned down 60 meters from my front door (he had won some money in the illegal dice game next door to our house). Gunfire was audible about twice a week.
And yet… I didn’t worry about it. My housemate didn’t worry about it (and less when I taught her how to tell which direction the shots were going). One of the reasons she chose to live there was that the rate of rape was a lot lower than it was in Berkeley. Thing is, unless one happens to be travelling in circles where violence is common, even in the “bad” parts of town, you aren’t likely to encounter much.
The rates of truly random crime in the poor parts of town aren’t any higher than than they are anywhere else (it’s been argued that random crime is probably lower; because the crooks go to where the money is).
But you, you blame your, “my white ass ain’t safe,” on some convenient POC.
That’s racist dude. Goes right up their with the lies/not lies you told about being a shitheel. Just a glop of shit in a diaper-pail.
@fromafar2013
Oh, you best believe there will be a wine pairing with this meal.
Your dinner sounds lovely, I am a big horseradish fan and a nice runny yolk with asparagus is a thing of beauty.
Bliss indeed. The kind that when described doesn’t make my skin crawl.
How can you be more of a feminist Undfreeland? How about you refer to or describe a woman in terms other than your physical attraction and your standards of bodily beauty. Just once. Because you have not yet done that. Not once. Considering the repulsive anecdotes you shared about how you feel totally justified manipulating women into sex without nary care about them as anything but sextoys I gotta say you don’t really strike me as an ally to women. Predator seems a better adjective.
Woody: shut up.
I know charismatic, conventionally handsome, swell guys with great personalities who go out with charismatic, conventionally pretty, swell women with great personalities. So, yes, attractive people often go out with other attractive people. That isn’t caused by feminism, that isn’t immoral, and that isn’t a social problem that needs to be addressed because it makes non-conventionally attractive men sad rage (not women, of course, because it’s their own fault and who cares about them anyway).
You have reiterated that point approximately five thousand times and people here are still not biting. Feel free to stop doing this over and over and over.
The undfreeland posts, the creepier and more pathetic he sounds.
I mean, this?:
He’s contradicting himself and getting all creepily possessive with that “give my life purpose” thing.
I don’t even expect the trolls to be consistent across all comments, but you’d think they could at least manage not to put sentences that contradict each other in the same paragraph.
Bullshit.
Highest bliss my ass.
LITERAL elven princess models ( capitals for emphasiz) call me handsome. I sleep with them.
It’s fun. We have fun.
The said, that same bliss I get from painting. Archery. Making children laugh. Writing. Solving 4d equations. Making someone cry as I dungeonmaster a roleplaying game.
People who only dream of sex are empty human beings.
The admiration of beautiful ( model! ) wonderful ( highest grade average in 17 years ) is fun, great, wonderful. So is so, so many other things.
Like making someone believe in magic momentarily or reading about human interactions in economic systems.
Look, in my day job? I play a LITERAL knight in shining armor. Sometimes on a white horse. Really. The admiration of beautiful (“young”, “unspoiled”) girls? Sure it’s fun. It is. But… It isn’t some magical force, which in the years I did not have it made me suffer.
Get over your penis. Get a hobby. Women are just people.
Oh, woody.
http://m.memegenerator.net/instance/51593297
It’s all chuckles and laughter until my half-elf ranger dies.
::much sobbing::
I miss you most of all Gwenhwyfar!
::still more tears::
I didn’t even go into the bliss I get when doing things with other people… oh wait, not true.. the pennywhistle: that was a memory from this weekend.
But fencing, having a good session on the mat; when one is in the moment, and the energy is flowing and the uke/nage relationship is centered and the end is inevitable. Or doing some free-form and being able to reverse the pin and heave the black belt who was grappling with you over; and seeing her smile because it was a perfect moment, even though she, “lost”.
A carefree gallop up the trails of the Eucalyptus Forest of Montana de Oro, when the gum trees are sweating their heady scent and then the trees are gone and the meadows are green with grass and Leus is demanding more head and your seat is solid and the only thing to do is trust him to navigate the path because he’s going faster than you can see. And the slow walk back, where the 6-point Muley is across the draw, just staring at you; and it’s a freak of fate you saw him, so still was he that only his nostrils moved.
Or the creak of leather, in the dark of the night, with the moon completely gone and nothing but Northern Light, and the dark beneath the trees of Point Reyes is Stygian, and again you have to trust in the horses as they walk, you and your companion talking softly, and breathing the cold green air.
Playing chase in the hills, on Skyline Drive, Petes’s bike ahead, Amy’s bike behind: the twisties putting distance between us all, and then the straightaways letting us catch up again. Or having someone riding behind, as you pass a slow car on a narrow road in the Gatineau; dropping to third and rolling on the throttle; with the speedo showing 130 kph, and the tach snarling at 8,000; before the nose of the car passes behind the midline of the bike.
Walking with the dogs, and seeing a kite fail to catch a sparrow for dinner. Lying on my back and taking a photo of a magpie, just as it hit a Red-tailed hawk it thought ought to leave the neighborhood.
Fuck… the amount of bliss in my life is so vast I could go on for hours.
Hah!
Heheh.
In this case a cult was stealing bits of peoples soul to ressurect their diety. The party came across a room full of “hollow” (formerly “hallow”) men in their beds, comatose. No one actualle died, but the one dwarf cried, seeing his countrymen almost dead.
undfreeland: I don’t see how I could be any more of a feminist.
Oh.. how about seeing them as people, with all the variation, foibles, strengths, rights, privileges, and virtues as everyone else.
Rather than as shallow gold-diggers who only like some mythically attractive men, and who are responsible for men killing women; because they have the audacity to not want to fuck Nice Guy™ assholes.
“I don’t see how I could be any more of a feminist.”
I know this was said already, but it bears repeating — you could try treating women as people.
As for attraction…I go for the skinny guys (sorry pecunium, I’m guessing you were gorgeous in your youth, skinny redhead? Yes please), girls…legs. I’m a legs person. What really gets me though? The sorta skater or goth androgynous look. Which is, pretty much by definition, neither busty nor man muscle.
Current relationship? Pharm student’s about my height (not impressive) and weight, not really “conventionally attractive”, a goddamned grad student so POOOOOR, and busy…who shares so many of my strange interests that I had to email zir when I found one of our shard bands had gotten a FB page, also, hilarious, brilliant, and takes my insanity in stride.
BF? Tall, like, 8″ taller than me tall, beanpole thin, poor? Wealthy? Are we counting money tied up in his business that’s not quite breaking even? Also hilarious, and brilliant, and has his own experience with some of my breed of crazy. Oh, and he’s mostly grey at 30~. Looks damned good in a three piece suit with pocket watch and everything though!
BF’s on the side lady, which may end up a poly thing with all three of us? Shorter than me, thin, also a very busy grad student. Gorgeous.
Me? Meh. I’m the size of the average 14 year old. Welfare poor, crazy, but hey, I got looks on my side.
Someone math out who here belongs with whom by troll boy’s standards?
But fencing, having a good session on the mat; when one is in the moment, and the energy is flowing and the uke/nage relationship is centered and the end is inevitable. Or doing some free-form and being able to reverse the pin and heave the black belt who was grappling with you over; and seeing her smile because it was a perfect moment, even though she, “lost”.
Yes! So much yes.
*rubs his rug burn and old wounds*
people, if you give them the chance are WONDERFUL, 99 times out of 100
RE: cassandrakitty
It seems to be a feature of the type that they have no idea how creepy their fixation is for the people on the receiving end, or how unfair it is to put that sort of burden on someone’s shoulders.
Well, my rapist took a little far, even by that standard. Seriously, what kind of twenty year old man places responsibility for fixing and motivating his life on the shoulders of a sixteen-year-old child who barely knows how to sweep a floor? (What’s even more horrifying was that apparently it WORKED. Apparently it was only us that got him to get a job, go back to school, and move out from his parents place… so he could have more access to us, but still.)
RE: piratejennie
Shoot, posted before I saw your comment LBT. I apologize for my insensitivity.
Don’t worry about it. It happened a long time ago and doesn’t hurt anymore.
RE: Fibinachi
I play a LITERAL knight in shining armor.
I thought you were an economist, Fibs?
Wow. There’s nothing like someone spouting SMV doctrine to make a thread go nuts.
One of the smartest things I ever saw on human sexuality was a t-shirt with the slogan “I AM SOMEBODY’S FETISH”. The gag is that it doesn’t matter a damn who wears the t-shirt, the statement is always true.
Human attraction is a weird thing. Probably the most successful ladies man I ever knew was a former housemate of mine who looked like Sideshow Bob and Frank Zappa had been merged in a transporter malfunction, and smelled like a brewery that allows smoking. But then, maybe the big $$$ he made at the call center sweetened the deal.
Bliss? The moment all other moments strive to compare to? Standing atop a mountain looking out over the valley. Feeling like I was standing on top of the world, while being just this tiny little speck in the grand scheme of things.
Sunrise over Pittsburgh’s rivers, and the lights on them at night. Those come close to that moment, but not quite there.
Being nibbled on by my fish, snuggles with furry critters.
There’s something somewhat circular about the whole “status” argument:
One must have “status” to have sex.
Yet one of the marker’s of “status” is having sex.
The best part is that it doesn’t even matter if he gets along with this hypothetical hot babe, just that she’s hot and she worships him. Why doesn’t he just get a pin-up calendar and a dog?
@piratejennie – So jealous of your fresh cucumber!I can’t grow those to save my life. Every year the bacterial wilt gets them just as the fruit sets. I finally gave up this spring and planted extra bell peppers instead – cukes are just too much heartbreak. Hope you enjoy(ed) your salad. 🙂
@fromafar2013 – Your dinner sounded great, too. Love asparagus and yolks, though I usually go lazy and fry my eggs.
The FM family had strawberry pancakes (at the kids’ request) and bacon. Good, but not terribly seasonal or sophisticated.
Then I had to figure out what was wrong with the dishwasher. I was going to do it by myself, but husband insisted that two heads are better than one on that kind of thing. Turns out the drain hose is clogged. It was vile, the kind of thing where you laugh and gag as you do it because the alternative is crying and gagging.
Being with a guy who will stop trying to recompile his kernel on Linux just so that he can scrape slime into a dishtub while you hold a flashlight – that’s not at all sexy or validating. But it is pretty darned blissful.
Omg flying mouse! My dishwasher is acting up too! The water was off for a split second and I guess the air in the pipes confused it cause now it will go through the washing motions but no water comes out. So mad.
Ugh. My problem is entirely too much water, and nowhere for it to go. I would say we should trade off, but the water I have is repulsive and of no use to anyone. :b
I have to go get a new hose for the darned thing tomorrow. Hopefully that won’t be followed by shopping for a new dishwasher; Mr. FM has concerns about the motor in ours, which is almost nine years old and not the nicest model to begin with.
The joys of being an adult, right?
Fibinachi, pecunim, ya’ll have pretty amazing lives, it seems. And you wonder why you don’t worry about women?
As to those using my past experiences with women to say I’m not a feminist. As I said, I did not intentionally “neg” them. I was just being kinda an ass and they happened to like it. When I’m humble and polite, women tend to ignore me. I do not blame them. I am boring, unattractive and lead a life no where as interesting as some on this forum.
I also think it’s bizarre that anyone would assume I ever mention any of the thoughts I’ve expressed here to anyone but highly cynical men. Jesus. I understand that my views run counter to pretty much everything that is EXPLICIT in our culture. The typical network television watching slack jaw isn’t any likelier to agree with me than other feminists.
@sparky
Come on, undfreeland already said
Stop twisting his words by quoting him.
@undfreeland
So, you’re going to continue to dodge the fact our criticism actually focuses on how you think that non-conventionally attractive men getting frustrated over not being granted their own Helen of Troy is a recently developed social crisis that must be addressed by legalizing prostitution or those frustrated men will become misogynist and, inexplicably, racist reactionaries. Plus, you wave off any unhappiness experienced by non-conventional women as inconsequential and their own damn fault.
You are a non-rational, self-pitying egocentric crank. And boring as fuck.