Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.
Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.
Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.
He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.
When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.
Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.
This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …
Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.
Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.
High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.
wat
It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.
Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.
I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.
In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.
The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.
wat
Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.
You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.
That’s life. Life isn’t fair.
This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.
Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.
This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”
This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.
[citation needed]
He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.
How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!
I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.
Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?
The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.
Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.
All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.
Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.
Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.
Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.
Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.
If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.
And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.
Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.
It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.
I mean, what the fucking fuck.
Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.
I’ve been friendzoned by the person I thought I’d spend forever with who I desperately want to be having sex with very recently.
Here’s the difference between me and MRA crybabies: I’m not upset because he has the audacity to deny me access to his body. I’m upset because he gave me the impression he wanted the same things from me that I wanted from him, took from me everything I had to offer for over a year, treated me poorly and then discarded me when my needs became apparent, saying he’d known it was wrong all along and that he’d not broken it off sooner because he felt sorry for me, but told me he wanted to keep me around on his terms as a buddy all the while knowing I was deeply in love with him and the pain dumping me would cause.
Anyone can get friendzoned. It’s why such a thing upsets you that determines whether you’re a POS.
racnad, rancid nads, or whatever your name is, stop projecting your bullshit shallowness onto the rest of society. Christ, the dumbass 70 percent figure you vomited up thread came straight from outta your own ass. Who the hell do you think you’re dealing with here, you novice.
undfreeland:
AHAHAHAHAHAHA. “I am more realistic and objective than you, therefore I won’t address anyone else’s arguments!” You are such a plank, but thanks for the laugh. I’m sure that one flies super well in debate team.
Anyway. Enjoy your dating market. I sincerely hope you are happy in a world where you are emotionally alienated from half the population. Thinking of dating as a transaction and people as products to be rated sounds like a wonderful philosophy for a fulfilling social life. I’m sure constantly comparing your “status” to that of other men and wondering if you measure up is a hoot. Have fun never making a real connection with an attractive woman because you’re too busy being an asshole so you can get in her pants. Enjoy living in a world where you and everyone else has been assigned a fixed point on your super realistic and objective scale of physical attractiveness. Enjoy being so wrapped up in your insecurities and projections and rigid convictions about the world that you never actually open your eyes and LOOK AROUND YOU.
Because if you did, you’d see hundreds and thousands of people, some conventionally beautiful, some unconventionally beautiful, some conventionally “ugly”, tall people, fat people, hairy people, tiny people, bald people, people with terrible teeth, people with strange skin conditions or disfiguring scars, old people, slim people, young people, sloppy people, athletic people, kind, hilarious, edgy, driven, calm, intense, chilled, loud, cynical, rude, sweet people and they are ALL FUCKING AND DATING AND LOVING EACH OTHER. And sometimes it makes no fucking sense to anyone but the two (or three, or four…) people in the relationship. And people like you are looking on thinking, “How did that below average 40 year-old woman get with that ripped young surfer? She’s a 4 and he’s an 8!” and getting worked up about how unfair it is, or dismissing it or desperately rationalizing it so that it fits into your sad little dating market theory. But it doesn’t fucking matter! Because it’s dating. It’s sex! It’s relationships! IT’S LOVE. It’s messy. It follows no rules. It just happens. It makes no objective or realistic sense 90% of the time and trying to pretend that there’s a “market” you can play like a stock broker is completely ludicrous and also deeply sad, and I would almost feel sorry for you if you didn’t keep arguing that sex workers have a societal duty to fuck men into supporting feminism. Because, you know, vomit.
But seriously. Enjoy your realistic, objective, miserable, self-imposed dating market. It sounds like hell on earth to me, but hey, you’ve clearly got it all figured out. The rest of us will be over here, fucking and kissing and cuddling and falling asleep on couches with people we respect as full and complete human beings, and not thinking about the status or relative value or attractiveness rating of the people we love and have loved.
“All the good men are married or gay!” (This was a very common complaint in the 1980s & 90s just before the internet)
Or both. And yet, no Mammoth has given me crap about it, oddly enough.
So, it isn’t fair that some women have sex with men they want to have sex with?
What part of this do you think should change to make things fair?
Should women be made to fuck men they do not desire or should men they desire not be allowed to have sex with willing partners?
You are aware that being sexually desirable to a individual woman =/= entitlement, right?
Being sexy to one person also =/= being sexy to all of them.
Also, “permission”?
Because sex isn’t something women are active, eager participants in. Nah. We just occasionally let people use our bodies like a neighbor who lets you swim in their pool.
Yikes! There is so much nastiness to unpack in these statements.
These guys make sex with straight men sound about as much fun as scrubbing out a port-a-potty.
I’m so glad that isn’t so.
I can kind of imagine the archetype of Racnad, skipping through the streets, spinning and singing:
“Assfax, assfax for everyone!”
Racnad. Can you please stop projectile vomiting your Special Insights of he one true EVOPSYCH, oh self proclaimed Guru of the Friendzone?
The confirmation bias is so strong with you…
“The most attractive women I have slept with, I was a complete ass towards. The most consistently mysogynistic men I’ve known, the most succsesful.”
Unfreeland; Contruary to popular manosphere belief, personal experiences doesn’t count as emperirical data.
Also, it’s not alright to abuse other people just because you helps you get your way with them.
I shudder to think what is meant by “successful”.
Yeah Leah, unfreeland still didn’t answer my question about how exactly he was a “complete ass” towards the attractive women he allegedly slept with — and how he felt about it afterward.
Dude? Where are you? Answer my question. Why is it OK to treat people like shit as long as you convince yourself that they like it?
It must be so nice to have such an easy life that not being able to demand instant sex from every random person you fancy is not only the greatest hardship you face, but the greatest hardship you can possibly imagine anyone suffering. Dudes on the Internet cry about this all the time, and it never ceases to make me faintly envious.
I should have known Rancid would be unable to resist this topic. At least he’s on moderation so the best he can do is drop a couple of turdish posts that get roundly mocked. At least he’s not here for hours on end whining about his sad boner.
What a shock that this paragraph is all assumptions recycled from the manosphere and bad TV shows and movies. I’m also very surprise that you have nothing to back this up. I’m sure you and Unfreedland will get along so well.
Who says they’re all the biggest douchebags are having all the sex? First of all, how do you define douchebag? Second of all, have you verified their claims that they are getting all this sex from multiple partners? People do lie you know. Especially douchebags.
I don’t know if there’s been research about this but just anecdotally I haven’t observed this to be the truth. I see sketchy guys get shot down in bars and clubs all the time.
I suspect a lot of Nice Guys are automatically labeling every man who seems successful with women as a douche or an asshole.
You’re basing your assumptions on things TV and movie characters said in the 80s and 90s?
Why?
Please stop telling women to reexamine who we’re attracted to. It’s creepy.
You just told us to reexamine who we’re attracted to. Not once, but twice. Now you’re claiming that male entitlement isn’t a real issue? Do you not see how you’re posts contradict each other?
Just because someone consents to you, doesn’t mean you’re entitled to that person’s body. Consent can be revoked any time. I really hope you realize that.
LBT, we haven’t whined about how the awesomeness of you is so sad because you’re both gay and married?
The horror!
Everyone — well, the girly type mammotheers! — we’ve been doing everything wrong! Quick! Drop your dearly beloveds! Or, stop trying to find dearly beloveds… Or, well, stop being totally okay about not having a dearly beloved! Or, stop being sad about that last dearly beloved who is no longer with you, due to factors like jerkiness, or whatever!
We must observe the sacred right of feminine pining after LBT, in his happily married to an awesome guy state.
Pine! Everyone, PINE!!
(LBT, I kid. You’re awesome, and I’m glad you have an amazing hubby. No sad pining, here!)
RE: contrapangloss
*laughs, applauds*
rancid nads is especially bitter and hateful, isn’t he? Jesus. The seething resentment against anyone who is having sex with anyone but him is positively bottomless. Dude, you’re pathetic. You have to paint every healthy sexually active person as a villain so you can get through your day? Christ, get some hobbies, wanker.
Leave it to Rancid to
A) Tell us who we are attracted to
B) Tell us we are wrong to be attracted to them
C) Tell us who is and is not getting laid on the regular
D) Use 30 yr old fictional characters as evidence to support his assfax
Bravo, dipshit. You’ve outdone yourself.
Tell me, do you have to lubricate before you pull all of those truefax out of your butt or do they just pass out easily on their own?
@undfreeland
You’re refusing to take into account other people’s experiences with dating because you have built your elaborate theories of human sexuality solely on your personal experience. You’re only concerned about yourself and men just like you. This may shock you, but many people don’t stew in their own egocentricity like you do.
I’m delurking just to say that I can totally see where whogoesthere is coming from. Right now, I’m eating a smoked salmon sandwich. Smoked salmon is my puppy’s favorite food in all the world. So, predictably, he’s very intensely watching me eat it, even though he knows begging will not get him any smoked salmon.
Zero’s a very privileged puppy, but this privilege is invisible to him. He has the nicest (most expensive) chicken and vegetable food, 2-hour walks every day, three choices of comfy bed, and more toys than he could possibly abuse in this lifetime. But all he can comprehend from the moment the salmon leaves the fridge is that he does NOT have salmon, and that this is a grave injustice.
So what I’m saying is, I’ve been trawling the manosphere for too long, because my first thought upon seeing him beg today is “Yeah, if he doesn’t get some salmon soon, he’s definitely going to shoot up a school.”
For those denigrating my inclination not to address anecdotal examples of couplings, it is only because those examples generally involve loved ones, and I do not wish to accidentally insult anyone here.
To those that accuse me of being a fake ally, I never made any such claim. Feminism is very useful to the direction I would like to see society go. It allows more individuals (women, homosexuals, transsexuals) etc. to contribute their talents and undermines Christianity. However, I question every ideology. Pragmatism, not dogmatism, is the correct path, and it is true that feminism, along with ideologies related to racial equality, do alienate lower class white men who generally do not understand how they benefit from patriarchy or their racial status. And I do believe that greater sexual liberation, including and perpetuated by the legalization of prostitution would simple cause many of these men not to give a fuck. It is amazing what even the temporary attention of a vaguely attractive woman can do to a man’s priorities. Sure, they may not end up voting Democrat, but they’ll be less likely to show up to the polls.
@Shriaz, well, I can give you a few examples. One of these involves a fellow male’s dismissal of rape, so fair warning if those are the sort of things that upset you.
One women gave me shit for dismissing the depressed rantings of a mutual friend who was very drunk. I told her to “fuck off” THe next day she came to me to tell me how much that hurt. We fucked and ended up dating for a while.
Another women, her boyfriend was in the army and had was away for a few months. I berated her one evening for dating him, as he was a huge asshole who once opined “if any women deserves to be raped, it’s women in the army because they are sluts.” She slept with me that night and a few more times until he returned and we never spoke of it again.
Another women, I mocked for her engineering degree and her lack of awareness of the world. Later that night, she texted me and asked me if I wanted to fuck. I was in bed so I texted back something along the lines of “well, hurry up, I’m sleepy.” Amongst the best sex I’ve ever had.
These are just a few examples. How do they make me feel? Fine. I was just acting in a way that asserted myself and was having a good time being drunk and loose. It also taught me that pursuing women in any sort of traditional, courting way is a waste of time, as those women are never interested. Maybe if I was more attractive, something like that would be possible. As it stands, pretending to be better than I am in extra-social environments seems to be the best avenue.
This goes the some way for women as well. The situation is that roughly 70 percent of heterosexual women and men want to pair off with the top 20 percent most attractive members of the opposite sex. Even when an average man or woman is attracted to an average potential partner, there’s a good chance that person is holding out for someone more attractive. This is especially true in high school or college where people are more likely to try to pick partners that impress their friends.
What? No.
1. I severely doubt the vast majority of people are holding out for underwear models, or are sitting around pouting because they’re with someone who isn’t an underwear model. I mean, if someone only wants to date underwear models it’s their choice, but it’s not the way most humans approach relationships.
2. Your model for how relationships work is high school (or, from the sound of it, TV shows set in high school)? That there’s your problem. And even in high school, most people are already starting to mature past the point of picking dates to impress their friends.
Apparently in the 1980s & 90s ranced’s interaction with women was limited to watching them in sitcoms and reading the Cathy comic strip. Ack!
The “nice guys” we get on here remind me of a dude I grew up with. He was always glomming on women and making skeevy comments toward them, then complaining that women only wanted to be his friends and that women were too shallow to fuck him.
Then he refused to date any woman who was not, by his estimation, extremely conventionally attractive.
Once he remarked to me that gay men flirted with him and straight women did not. He could not figure out why men might find him attractive while women did,’t. I knew why. The answer was that he was a good looking, smart and funny guy, but he treated women like they existed for his pleasure. He treated men like people. No shit men saw something in him women didn’t! Had he tried to give one of his unasked for “massages” to a man, he would have found out that they thought he was creepy as fuck too.
Wow. Undfreeland is kind of an awful person.
I mean, I knew he were a jerk before, but he’s just outdone himself.
Here, um, dude; would you like this bucket of all the ew? And here, have a complementary set of Legos to step on, some ‘eu de skunk’ so women can smell you coming from a mile away, and a cactus for your petting pleasure.
You might also deserve the tag #manwhoshouldnotbewithwomenEVER
Dude, gaslighting and negging are not the behaviors of men better than you are. They are a sign of a guy as awful as you are. Congratulations.
Wow. Thank you for the confirmation that you are truly a manipulative and disgusting human being, unfreeland. You’re also an abuser who takes advantage of people who have been abused. Congrats. Gross, gross, gross. **shakes head**
In a pre-feminist society, low-status men have no chance of persuading any woman’s father (or male guardian) to allow a marriage. Women with no male guardians tend to wind up in convents or brothels or working as rich men’s servants, so they aren’t available for marriage either.
Ah, but this is a wacky alternate universe where feminism never happened, so everything is different! In this universe, self-absorbed losers who spend all their time posting incoherent YouTube rants about “females” are the highest of high-status men! They are treated like unto the landed gentry of old, and have the wealth to purchase many concubines! Meanwhile, the men considered attractive in our universe are total uggos over there! Them do opposite normal people!