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a voice for men a woman is always to blame advocacy of violence antifeminism evil wives evil women imaginary oppression judgybitch men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-plausible deniability paul elam playing the victim taking pleasure in women's pain why can't men punch women? yeah that's the ticket

Spinning out of control: Janet Bloomfield takes A Voice for Men’s reality-distortion field on the road

satirekoolaid

One of the benefits of running a cult – or so I have heard – is the ability to define reality for your cult followers. The principals at the cultish A Voice for Men do this all the time – pretending, for example, that former AVFM Number Two John Hembling had once faced off against a mob of 20-30 angry feminists brandishing boxcutters when his own video of the event showed him conversing with a handful of peaceful activists. And who can forget their attempts to cast their embarrassingly poorly attended rally on Toronto as a “huge success?”

However successful they are at redefining reality for their cult followers, cult leaders encounter problems when they try to do the same thing for those outside of their sphere of influence.

Take AVFM maximum leader Paul Elam’s continual attempts to recast some of the vilest things he’s written as “satire,” an explanation that only seems to fly amongst MRAs with a large capacity for the willing suspension of disbelief.

Well, now AVFM’s comically inept PR maven Janet “JudgyBitch” Bloomfield has taken on the project of trying to retroactively redefine Elam’s most despicable writings as satire.

In a post on Thought Catalog, Bloomfield argues, as best she can, that Elam’s notorious “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” post was not arguing, as it plainly seemed to be, that the best way to stop women from abusing their male partners was to let said male partners beat the shit out of them.

In the piece, you may recall, Elam said this:

In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess.

Now, am I serious about this?

No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong.

But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.

There’s no reason whatsoever to believe that any of this is “satirical” or sarcastic or anything other than what it seems on the surface to be: a suggestion that the proper response to violence from women is violence against women – or that this would be the proper response, if this sort of “self-defense” from men didn’t result in jail time or anger management classes.

Indeed, the argument of this piece is entirely in keeping with a short story Elam published around this same time, titled “Anger Management,” that has as its hero a man unfairly punished for breaking his wife’s nose in a fit of righteous rage after she left him for his business partner.

But Bloomfield shamelessly if unconvincingly tries to argue that

What Paul Elam did in his article was engage in satire – he flipped the genders to highlight just how awful it is to hurt another person, and dramatically highlighted our double standards when it comes to who got hurt.

Yep, she’s honestly claiming that’s what he meant when he said beating the shit out of a “violent bitch” is “not wrong” just not “worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.”

The argument went over well with the small army of misfit misogynists populating the comments section to Bloomfield’s post on Thought Catalog. And perhaps she will see this as a victory.

But if you read the following comments critically, you’ll notice that the commenters — including her fans — aren’t buying the satire argument at all.

 Andrejovich Dietrich • 7 hours ago  Don't lecture me on measured response.. Teach the violent feminists to keep their hands to themselves.

Notice the upvotes. This was a popular argument in the comments.

 Doug Hart Andrejovich Dietrich • 5 hours ago  I had the hands off approach to dealing with crazy women pounded into me from an early age. If they want equality I say we give it to them.

This comment was a response to one of the only feminists who ventured into the fray:

 Diz Auntie Alias • 19 hours ago  Let it go. I've seen your posts at Manboobz, your agenda is clear. There is nothing wrong with knocking the shit out of someone who assaults you. Women don't get some kind of magical pass on this due to their gender. Maybe you should quit assuming men will give you a pass on violence and stop beating them if you have a problem with it.

One commenter recalled a famous passage in Shakespeare:

 Emilio Lizardo • 8 hours ago  I have stopped being a decent guy.  When a woman in the street tried to snatch away my glasses (she didn't like I was taking pictures of an accident) I decked her. Hard. Called the police on her too. She willingly described the battery she committed and her attempted robbery, because she couldn't conceive of being in the wrong. The police were willing to arrest her.  No women thinks of her violence as violence. They. really. don't. Oddly, at the same time we have VAWA defining women as natural born victims we have Feminist claims that women are qualified for combat. Both can't be true.  I've been hit by women and even had to take knives away from them. Give them the equality they've been asking for.  When confronted by the martial competency differential between women and men, keep in mind Shylock's complaint: The Merchant Of Venice Act 3, scene 1, 58–68.

The passage in question in A Merchant of Venice is Shylock’s famous “if you prick us, do we not bleed” speech. You may recall that Shylock used this argument as a justification for revenge, declaring that

[t]he villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

This is Elam’s argument as well.

In other words, none of these commenters — and those who upvoted them — believe that Elam’s post was satirical. None of them see Elam’s argument as being anything other than what it was: a Shylockean paean to righteous “revenge” upon abusive women.

They know he was serious. And they agree with him.

EDITED TO ADD: Bloomfield has responded to this post with a detailed and lucid critique. By which I mean she tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/JudgyBitch1/status/480512762393944064

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I am genuinely confused as to why anyone would think that discrimination against gay people in the US makes the fact that Japan and South Korea are sitting right next to Yemen in the gender equality index (the only highly developed countries that are that low on the list) OK.

brooked
brooked
10 years ago

@Cassandrakitty

I googled up a wage gap chart because South Korea is jaw dropping in that regard and Japan isn’t much better.

http://www.movehub.com/blog/global-gender-pay-gap-map

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

More info.

News Release
Increased Political Participation Helps Narrow Global Gender Gap in 2013

Oliver Cann, Associate Director, Media, Tel.: +41 (0)79 799 3405 [email protected]

عربي I Español I Français I Deutsch I Português I 日本語 I 中文

The Global Gender Gap Report 2013 finds 86 out of 133 countries improved their global gender gap between 2012 and 2013, with the area of political participation seeing the greatest progress
Iceland has the narrowest gender gap in the world, followed by Finland, Norway and Sweden.
Data indicates overall slight gains in gender parity mask the emergence of twin-track paths towards economic equality in many countries and regions.
Download the full report, covering 136 economies including rankings, video and an interactive map.

Geneva, Switzerland, 25 October 2013 – The world’s gender gaps narrowed slightly in 2013 on the back of definite if not universal improvements in economic equality and political participation between the sexes, according to the Global Gender Gap Report 2013, which is published today.

The eighth annual edition of the Report ranks 136 countries on their ability to close the gender gap in four key areas: economic participation and opportunity, political empowerment, health and survival, educational attainment, political participation and economic equality. Of the 133 countries that were measured in both 2012 and 2013, 86 actually improved their gender gap during this time. Overall, the Report finds Iceland the most advanced country in the world in terms of gender equality for the fifth year running. It, along with Finland (2nd), Norway (3rd) and Sweden (4th), has now closed over 80% of its gender gap. These countries are joined in the top 10 by the Philippines, which enters the top five for the first time, Ireland (6th), New Zealand (7th), Denmark (8th), Switzerland (9th) and Nicaragua (10th).

Elsewhere, in 14th place Germany is the highest-placed individual G20 economy, although it falls one place from 2012. Next is South Africa (17th, down one), the United Kingdom (level on 18th) and Canada (up one to 20th). The United States comes 23rd, also down one place since 2012. After South Africa, the next highest BRICS nation is Russia (61st), followed by Brazil (62nd), China (69th) and India (101st). At the bottom of the ranking are Chad (134th), Pakistan (135th) and Yemen (136th).

At the global level, the Report finds that in 2013, 96% of the health and survival gender gap has now been closed. It is the only one of the four pillars that has widened since the Report was first compiled in 2006. In terms of education, the global gender gap stands at 93%, with 25 countries having closed their gaps completely. The gender gaps for economic equality and political participation are only 60% and 21% closed respectively, although progress is being made in these areas, with political participation narrowing by almost 2% over the last year. In both developing and developed countries alike, relative to the numbers of women in tertiary education and in the workforce overall, women’s presence in economic leadership positions is limited.

Regional Analysis

Europe’s progress towards eliminating its gender gap is polarized, with countries from Northern and Western Europe presenting a stark contrast to those from the South and East. Spain comes in 30th, having closed 72% of its gender gap, France ranks 45th (70% closed) while Italy ranks 71st.

The Philippines is the highest ranking country in Asia, primarily due to success in health, education and economic participation. China stays in the same position as last year. India remains the lowest-ranked of the BRICS economies, even after gaining four places. Japan (105th) slips four places despite some improvements in the economic participation and opportunity subindex score. Japan is followed in the region by the Republic of Korea (111th).

(From here – http://www.weforum.org/news/increased-political-participation-helps-narrow-global-gender-gap-2013)

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Only 25 years ago, I could cite you examples where women who trained men watched as those same men got promoted above them.

I did some research on the public service in New Zealand, and up to the 1970s, women who got married had to resign upon marriage as married women were legally not allowed to work in the public service. There was also some, related idea that the wages of men were tied to the cost of “keeping” a wife and children. Of course, those were back in the days of strong unions and a much smaller disparity between the lowest-paid and the highest-paid in an organisation.

mildlymagnificent
10 years ago

There was also some, related idea that the wages of men were tied to the cost of “keeping” a wife and children.

It wasn’t just an idea. It was the explicit judgement in Australia’s famous Harvester decision. The empire being what it was, judgements in one empire (now Commonwealth) country were often cited in other jurisdictions in other countries.

…remuneration “must be enough to support the wage earner in reasonable and frugal comfort”. He heard evidence from workers and their wives. Following, he accounted for light, clothes, boots, furniture, life insurance, union pay, sickness, books, newspapers, alcohol, tobacco, transport fares and so on.

http://worksite.actu.org.au/the-harvester-judgement-and-australias-minimum-wage/

A briefer description here.
http://worksite.actu.org.au/the-harvester-judgement-and-australias-minimum-wage/

What we have to remember is that in the days before washing machines, cheap ready-made clothing, cooking equipment (other than a wood stove) and vacuum cleaners, the job of a housekeeper/wife was, in fact, very high value. Making and mending most of the children’s clothing, doing the laundry with a potstick over a pot of boiling water on a fire in the backyard, washing and polishing floors on hands and knees took a hefty amount of time and effort. Having a husband who earned enough for the whole family rather than both parents having to work outside the home was a huge social advance.

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

You do realise that out of the whole UK population with all its linguistic diversity, for the most part only a small segment (South Eastern, middle/upper class) gets a decent amount of media representation, and an even smaller amount of that media ends up reaching an US audience. So the pretentious ‘Britishisms’ you’re having to stop yourself speaking in are probably not even representative of how most people speak.

Although things have noticeably changed in the last three decades. When Britain’s Channel 4 first started broadcasting in late 1982, they deliberately and polemically hired continuity announcers with very strong regional accents – and I remember being struck by this at the time and thinking how refreshing it was. And today, it’s routine to hear (for instance) a pronounced Newcastle accent commentating over Big Brother, one of British TV’s highest-rated programmes – we think nothing of it, but this would have been unimaginable in the 1970s.

On the other hand, when it comes to accents for export, the range narrows dramatically. Daniel Craig massively tones down his native Wirral accent to play James Bond, and you’d never know that David Tennant was Scottish on the evidence of Doctor Who. I also understand that Ken Loach’s films, if they play in the US at all, generally do so with subtitles – in fact, one of his films, the Scotland-set Sweet Sixteen, even played in English cinemas with subtitles in the first fifteen minutes, just to ease audiences into the accents and dialect.

Scottish accents aren’t at all unusual in British media, but they tend to drift more towards “Edinburgh” – i.e. the Scots equivalent of the kind of middle/upper class accents you’re talking about – than to Glasgow or anything more overtly regional. The sitcom Rab C. Nesbitt (clip here) is very unusual in that it’s in unvarnished Glaswegian, but the mere fact that it’s always singled out as an example shows how rare it is – at least on national television.

mildlymagnificent
10 years ago

Oh my giddy fingers.

That first link should be to this piece. http://www.abc.net.au/federation/fedstory/ep3/ep3_events.htm

Kim
Kim
10 years ago

You do realise that out of the whole UK population with all its linguistic diversity, for the most part only a small segment (South Eastern, middle/upper class) gets a decent amount of media representation

I do like it when they include more diversity. Especially when a show is set in a location outside the SE too. Even when I need subtitles to understand it.

Which reminds me. I was playing Wolfenstein: the new order the other day. I had subtitles set to “foregin only” because I hate teletext in games (pet peeve – it’s not a subtitle if it’s the same language) but they were still showing and I thought it was a bug. Turns out that English in a perfectly understandable Scottish accent counts as “foreign”.

kittehserf
10 years ago

I’m as likely to hear northern accents as south-eastern ones on the television I watch, whether we’re talking Dalziel and Pascoe or Time Team or Auf Wiedersehen, Pet.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
10 years ago

I have trouble understanding the “satire” these people like to engage in. Even if their ideas weren’t terrible to begin with, their definition of satire doesn’t make any goddamn sense.

Say I’m a comic book writer in the ’90s. I’m an outspoken critic of the extreme, violent anti-hero trend of superhero comics of the time period, and propose a return to the more lighthearted, silly superhero comics of the Silver Age. In order to make my point, I write a story featuring Superman gaining the ability to change people’s eye color by farting, Jimmy Olsen briefly becoming the Amazing Ferret-Man and Lois Lane trying to discover Superman’s secret identity by means of a robot who bursts into song at the most inappropriate moments. Everywhere in the story, I use my characters as mouthpieces for anti-gritty comic commentary by ways of straw men. I frequently confuse comics like Watchmen for pointlessly violent ’90s comics.

The comic is published, and everyone except my most loyal ideological supporters are all “this is a really stupid comic.” My point is questioned, my writing skills are criticised and my heavy use of straw man arguments is ridiculed. To avoid criticism, I turn around and say it was satire all along.

But… what, exactly, was I satirizing? The way certain writers and artists use characters as mouthpieces for their own agendas? An inability to understand other writers’ points? My own views? What?

It’s shitty enough to try to weasel your way out of what you’ve said before by saying “just kidding!”, instead of taking responsibility for the crap that comes out of your mouth (or pen, or typewriter, or whatever). It’s even shittier when your views are clearly bigoted, hateful and violent, and the “satire” you’re creating perfectly aligns with your actual, stated views.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
10 years ago

Went to bed kind of early last night, so I’m just now catching up with the thread. Please forgive me for resurrecting stuff from comment page one.

As a SAHM, I think it’s shitty that JB claims that her husband pays all of her bills. So your contribution to your household is worth nothing? Maybe in your case that’s true, but all the doctor’s appointments, school meetings, etc. my husband never had to miss work for, the errands he didn’t have to run, the labor he did not have to do are of value. He does not pay my bills anymore than I paid his when our rolls were reversed. That money is our money. In fact, if I charged for my services, he could not afford them. We’re a team. We share ups and downs. It’s sad you think your husband is doing you a favor.

::applause::

I’m currently a SAHM myself. When my husband and I sat down to hammer out changes to our life insurance policies a few years ago, we crunched numbers and realized that it made sense to insure us both for the same amount. Mr. FM’s (admittedly well-paying) job requires him to be on the road anywhere from 3-6 months out of the year. If he dies, I’ll have a hard adjustment as I have to look for work. But he’ll also struggle if I’m gone, since he’ll either have to quit his job or pay for someone to handle all the housework, yardwork, and above all, childcare.

Also, I wonder if JB realizes that by dismissing unpaid domestic labor, she’s also throwing SAHM dads under the bus, as well as men who cut back on their work hours or change their career paths in order to better serve their families? How is it helping these men to reinforce the stereotypes that domestic pursuits are worthless?

leftwingfox
10 years ago

Ok, I had to click that link by Vulcan.

34 paragraphs, and the takeaway is: “As a gay man, I think it’s a excellent point that marriage is all about procreation, and this is a vital and important argument which in no way makes someone a homophobe for writing a bill to prevent gay marriage.”

You would think he’d spend all those paragraphs proving that’s not actually indicative of her opinions on gay people, or denouncing her bill, or downplaying past actions.

Nope. Just a lot of whining about how the feminists are “hijacking” LGBT rights and “attacking” someone by… describing their actions?

No Name
No Name
10 years ago

Janet Bloomfield really is a nasty piece of work. I don’t know if she genuinely has these opinions or just wants to please some of her followers but this woman really is quite vile. She is also a hypocrite. She wrote an article about how rape isn’t that terrible and she would rather be ‘raped than have a broken arm’ (true story but I can’t be bothered to wade through her blog and dig it up. I do not feel like torturing myself today) then when a child at school turns around and threatens her daughter with rape she goes balistic and calls everyone from the town baker to the postman to the villiage barber and goes on a rampage (and yes it’s right for a Mother to be concerned. I would be even more worried if she brushed it off, but still, it shows her pure hypocrasy). If it isn’t that bad Jan then why all the fuss? After all, it’s better than her recieving a broken arm, right? Then she really goes on to take the biscuit by justifying Jimmy Saville’s actions and blaming his victims, but when it comes relatively close to happening to one of her own, it’s the most terrible thing in the world. So Jan, it doesn’t matter when it happens to other people’s kids, just yours, because your such a special snowflake and you are higher in value than every other human being on earth?

Isabelle
Isabelle
10 years ago

@mariaangela
“That is my point, that for a woman there is no striving through accomplishments for status, it is removable for reasons she has no control over. ”

Maybe I don’t understand the notion of status. But a woman academic and professional accomplishments are not wiped out when the spouse is out of the picture. My grand-mother used to tell me that it was more important for a woman to get an education than to get married. So I got an education and married late, after my career was established. Keeping my family name was a non-negotiable condition as there was no way in Hell that I would agree to lose any of the recognition attached to my name. Hubby never objected. When my husband passed away, it was difficult for a number of reasons but my credentials and my capacity to earn decent wages remained. I see losing some of the economic power I had related to losing the benefits of being a two incomes household. The one thing I will acknowledge is that it is harder for a woman to climb the professional ladder and to find a partner who is supportive and willing to share equally in caring of the children and sharing the domestic choirs. But its not impossible. Many of my friends have the full package, a lovely family and a great job. In Canada anyway, the laws are not discriminatory in terms of gender. What causes the problems is the misogyny which is still part of many men and some women mentality. Some times I feel its not enough to squash misogyny in men, its really essential that women see themselves as worthy of fending for their own rights inside the relationship and value their life independently of being a mother and a spouse. One of the nastiest comment I ever had came from a woman who told me that I was less because I did not have children of my own. I think she resented her career going nowhere because she had many kids from a partner who expected her to be a traditional wife and saw her work as a temporary source of income until he made the big bucks. It was easier to dump on me than examine her own life. I guess this explains why I loathe Femras even more than their male counterpart. i sense lots of resentment and a desire to lash at women who get respect professionally. I find that raising a family is an admirable choice, but its not an automatic choice and who stays at home should not be necessarily the woman. There are all kind of scenarios that works. A buddy of mine who is a candidate for Ph.D. is the one who stayed home the first year of his son since his wife was already working as a professor and it was the option that was affecting the less their finance. The archaic picture of gender roles is so harmful in so many ways, it’s really the Procrustes bed which amputates big chunks of men and women souls. I am still resentful for my mother forcing me to take ballet lessons because she thought that I was not feminine enough instead of the karate lessons I wanted. My apology for the long rant, I needed to get it off my chest.

Isabelle
Isabelle
10 years ago

@Flying Mouse

“If he dies, I’ll have a hard adjustment as I have to look for work. But he’ll also struggle if I’m gone, since he’ll either have to quit his job or pay for someone to handle all the housework, yardwork, and above all, childcare.

Also, I wonder if JB realizes that by dismissing unpaid domestic labor, she’s also throwing SAHM dads under the bus, as well as men who cut back on their work hours or change their career paths in order to better serve their families? How is it helping these men to reinforce the stereotypes that domestic pursuits are worthless?”

I would think so. There is some strange accounting going on about what we value. The attitude of equating unpaid and worthless is just too prevalent for my taste. Personally, I think benefits should be granted for parental leave until the children are in school full time independently of gender. If only to recognize the importance and hard work of parenting and mitigating the economic impact and career setback of raising children.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

And hey, the 4 articles I have up there have more than 83K shares! Looks like our cult might be getting a little bigger?

LOL. You know people share things to mock them or comment on how awful they are, right?

Curious that you failed to mention the 40% of Jezebel senior staff that admit to beating male partners.

Pretty sure everyone here thought that article was terrible, and agrees that Jezebel itself is pretty terrible.

Curious how you fail to note the difference between David’s relationship to Jezebel and Paul’s relationship to AVfM. In case you’re having a brain fart, let me spell it out for you: David does not write for or contribute to Jez and has no responsibility for its content. Paul is the founder and bossman of AVfM and the author of the article in question. Apples, oranges.

You know what does exist? Class privilege. Rich men AND women have power over all of us. What privilege does a homeless veteran contemplating suicide have over me, an affluent white woman who has a husband to pay all her bills?

You don’t understand how intersectionality works. First of all, that homeless veteran is not oppressed for his maleness. Like you said, that is an issue of class (and disability). Second, no one here is going to argue that all men have an advantage over all women. The question is: what advantage does a homeless male veteran contemplating suicide have over a homeless female veteran contemplating suicide? What advantage does an affluent white man have over you?

I don’t know why I’m bothering. If you haven’t bothered to understand the arguments we’re making by now, there’s no reason to think you’ll start any time soon.

vOh my: http://www.avoiceformen.com/just-plain-crazy/david-futrelle-falsely-accuses-canadian-senator-anne-cools-of-homophobia/

Haha. For all their claims that David doesn’t matter, they sure do rush to defend themselves when he calls them on their shit. Notice how the story has changed from “she maybe a homophobe but she has something of value to say” to “she’s not a homophobe at all”.

Faint Praise
Faint Praise
10 years ago

AVfM has updated the original article to include satire tags…

… which reveal the worst parts, the parts saying the violence is not wrong but not worth the trouble, are **not** satire. That’s the part he sincerely believes. Apparently he thinks “satire” is the part where he uses colorful language to describe his sincere beliefs.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@mariangela

Hi to questioners, I don’t understand your questions, I am sorry. Can it be that you aren’t aware of basic feminist theory

wow you are a condescending asshole.

@LBT

Like, on the one hand, as long as the government is standing or doesn’t drop my paperwork or axe its funding, I am guaranteed not to starve. However, I’m also pretty much guaranteed to remain dirt poor. Plus the whole work thing gets really wonky once disability comes into play. So how does that jive with other parts of class theory? I’m curious.

WOw I am soooo uneducated about this stuff, so I can’t help you. Sorry 😛

@cassandra

So what I’m saying is, be more precise. Divorce often has a devastating effect on the economic status of women, but it doesn’t actually change their class, because class privilege is already fairly well established by the time someone is an adult and never entirely goes away even if they end up in financial difficulty.

Ditto. I grew up middle class and we only went broke in teenage-hood. But like, even though we didn’t have money, both my parents had phds, I’d gotten a good education*, which made it way easier to take the GED. And my great aunt had enough money (not loads but some) to keep us afloat when my mom had now and probably more stuff I’m missing.

*not that you can’t when your poor, but generally schools in middle class areas get more well funded, and my parents even had money to send us to two years of private school.

IDK, I’m rambling, does any of that make sense?

@fruitloopsie

I don’t get any of this!? Can you explain all of this to me?

Is this your first encounter with judgybicth? I only ran into her up to a month ago. and yeah she’s kind of confusing and misleading 😛

@weirdwoodtreehugger

Again, I’m a bit drunk and am probably making zero sense!

Drunk you still makes way more sense than mariangela 😛

@strivingally

I think perhaps I am being overly touchy in the wake of the whole #EndMothersDay debacle, but was I the only one who thought mariangela sounded more like a caricature of feminist beliefs than someone who truly believes in the equality of women?

Eh, I don’t want to play the no-true-scottmans game :/ There are plenty of feminists with weird theories. (not that the rest of you can’t say what u think, I just don’t feel like theorizing over whether it.)

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

mariangela, should you return, I have a pair of questions:

How would you define third wave feminism? And why do you want nothing to do with it? (I’m paraphrasing because my iPad will get cranky if I go back to quote)

cloudiah
10 years ago

I’m really behind, but did people see that AVfM seems to be systematically scrubbing their website and/or rewriting old posts to make them more palatable, while also adding robots.txt to their site to prevent archive.org from crawling? Good thing people have screen shots.

breadandrosesblogger
10 years ago

Indeed, I’m sure many people do not “wike” JudgyBitch. And for good reason.

Robert Ramirez
Robert Ramirez
10 years ago

The robot.txt cover-up is surely another PR victory on behalf of AVFM. Nothing deters those snoopy liberal journalists like a good cover up. That will make sure that they don’t believe you have something to hide.

GrumpyOldMan
10 years ago

It seemed to me that Mariangela was just too full of Marxist dogma. Marx was a very astute observer of economic life in the early part of the Industrial Revolution, but, like most of us, he was less astute in predicting the future. He predicted that Communism would come first to the most advanced nations (US, UK, Germany), and a backward country like Russia would be far behind and undeveloped countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America would be the last to adopt a Communist system. Marx was not a Marxist; Marxism has become a pseudo-religion with a rather inflexible dogma where everything is seen through class-colored glasses.

Elizabeth (from a couple of days ago), on the other hand, seemed to me to be a very nice, very young 20-year-old who had grown up among Very Nice People who protected and sheltered and cosseted her, so that whenever she needed something she asked politely and she got it. She was really very out-of-place here — a well-fed, well-groomed, pampered little kitty who wandered out of the safety of her home and encountered a pack of old, scruffy, battle-scarred alley cats (us). She thought we should all just join hands with the MRAs and sign Cumbayah, and everything would work out. Somebody else here used the phrase, “a poor grasp of how the world works,” and that was her problem as I see it. Her logic was fine, if the world was really how she saw it. It seems like if a woman was being raped, she would advise her to say (on a polite, ladylike voice) “Sir! What you are doing is most unpleasant” and the rapist would reply “Of course. How could I have been so inconsiderate!” and stop. She seemed to take the claim of the MRAs to be a human rights organization at face value. Instead of arguing with her, I think we should have answered with some of the vile things Paul Elam has written and ask her if that sounds like a great defender of human rights to her.

As to JudgyBitch, I can’t figure out whether she is a feminist mole doing her best to discredit the MRA by spouting noxious garbage in their name or merely the worst PR person in recorded history.

By the way, I would like to comment that David is indeed a terrible hypocrite. I have been visiting this blog for almost ten days, and I have yet to see him (or anyone else) condemn the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks, and it is obvious that his (our) silence in this matter is meant to condone genocide. (Note to MRAs: THIS is what real satire looks like.)

Fibinachi
10 years ago

By the way, I would like to comment that David is indeed a terrible hypocrite. I have been visiting this blog for almost ten days, and I have yet to see him (or anyone else) condemn the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks, and it is obvious that his (our) silence in this matter is meant to condone genocide. (Note to MRAs: THIS is what real satire looks like.

Thank you. I laughed.

strivingally
10 years ago

Oh awesome. AVfM *is* trying to give their public image a makeover. I hope some IT-savvy people are mirroring/caching all the distilled woman-hating before AVfM can destroy the evidence. It really is just sad how an organisation which claims to be representing the interests of 50% of the population is so reluctant to publicise what their membership *really* thinks of the other 50%, not because it’s bad things to think about other human beings, but because it might make them look bad.