Open thread! As always: No trolls, no MRAs.
This is a general open thread; for more personal stuff, go here.
Oh,and the pic above is from a hilarious new website called Manfeels Park, which mashes up whiny MRA complaints with … Jane Austen.
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Seconding everything Cassandra said here.
It’s still your decision to make. Not anyone else’s.
So, your position is that Leum (or anyone else in a similar situation) should just let hir friend die? Wow. I’m sorry but that just feels really unethical and immoral to me.
Suicide can be a fairly impulsive decision or the desire to commit suicide can be a temporary short term mind set. Dead is permanent. The fact that Leum’s friend was reaching out indicates to me that a part of her wanted help. I just don’t see how doing nothing would’ve been the correct approach.
So the people who’ve tried to commit suicide, been stopped and are bloody glad afterward, don’t count? You really think people should sit around when their loved ones, in a state of depression, try to kill themselves?
Oh jeez…Hugs, if wanted, for Leum, for Marie, for Ally, for greendaywantsavatars, and for anyone else this thread has gone sour for.
I hope this isn’t going to explode too much. :/ I mean, this kind of situation isn’t easy for anyone involved.
I had my best friend call me once because she’d taken a bunch of pills in an overdose attempt. I live three hours away from her, so I couldn’t go to her, but when I told her I would hang up and call an ambulance, she begged me not to leave her alone, so I stayed on the phone with her. If I hadn’t been able to talk to her over the phone, though, I might have called the cops. I wouldn’t want to break my friend’s trust and certainly wouldn’t want to distress my best friend more than she already was, but I do have to second Cassandra that I’d rather my friend be distressed than dead, if I had to choose.
@Kittehs
this isn’t abou trying to stop ppl from commiting suicide its abou tnot calling the cops on your fucing friends and not getting your friends instantutionalized.
@weirdwoodtreehugger
Do you want to know what’s really fuckign enethical and immoral? LOCKING PEOPLE UP AGAINST THEIR FUCKING WILL.
If I’d taken the “do nothing because respecting her autonomy is more important” approach one of my best friends would have been dead over 20 years ago. I’m pretty glad I took the “intervene to try to save her life first, worry about everything else later” option, and judging by everything she’s said since so is she.
I’m kind of having a “wait, WTF am I even doing taking part in this community?” moment right now, tbh.
I’m hoping this quote from “Feeling Good”, by David D. Burns, M.D., will help: “The real question is not whether a depressed individual has the right to commit suicide, but whether [ze] is realistic in [zir] thoughts when [ze] is considering it.”
wwth
no. There are plenty of options beside “call the cops” and “do nothing”. Don’t act like it’s a black and white just to try to justify sicking the police on people who don’t want to be locked up.
help is talking, spending time together, a a thousand things that cann help people calm down. It’s not calling the cops.
kittehserf
actually, they do count. That doesn’t mean people who *haven’t* been suicidal or tried to commit suicide can cherry pick their view of all of the “good” suicidal people who liked intervention and ignore the “bad” suicidal people who hated it.
I was suicidal. I am “bloody glad” i didn’t wind up dead. I still will never trust the people who tried to stop me by calling the cops, and their actions were still immoral as fuck. I like that i’m alive, but I hate the means they tried to make that happen. And if they had talked to me like a normal person, maybe they wouldn’t have had to *use* those means.
seriously, there are options other than “ignore your friend” and “try to control your friend via law enforcement”. Making it a black and white is just to try to justify locking people up against their wills.
Also seconding cassandrakitty, especially with regards to Leum and zir friend.
Perhaps a separate discussion about bodily autonomy and suicide / self harm with suggestions, experiences or other information might be helpful given we don’t know all the salient information about this situation?
@cassandra
Well, you’re not the only fucking one.
@scott
wow you and your book can go fuck yourselves.
Marie, no, this is about you making things about your experiences when they’re not relevant.
It’s also “not all police are monsters in every country”. You really think everyone who’s had police called when they’re suicidal ends up institutionalised? Give me a break.
This is the second time lately you’ve jumped on someone who is trying to help a friend or family member – you’ve said on both occasions you don’t have any advice, then you complain about a phrase or about what they did. Knock it off.
Don’t let this drive you away, ferchrissakes.
@ kittehs
If this was a one-off it wouldn’t, but unfortunately that is not the case.
Again, Leum, I’m so sorry that you’re having to read all this on top of already being worried about your friend.
Fade, this “good” and “bad” suicidal people is bullshit if you’re claiming that’s my feeling about people being suicidal.
I notice that you do seem to put those around them into that category, though. Presumably those who love a suicidal person can never be unsure, or panicked, or not know what to do, or getting help the only way they know how when they’re not physically present. No, they have to be perfect, don’t they?
First define suicidal. In Leum’s case the person had already taken drugs and was slurring their words. That’s a medical emergency — even if it had been an accidental poisoning rather than a deliberate overdose.
Secondly. The big issue when someone is unconscious or incapacitated at home is access. I don’t know about other countries, but here it’s only the police and firefighters who are authorised to break down doors in various circumstances, not the ambos.
Here we also have crisis response teams for suicidal and other mental health interventions, but they’re hardly ever available for the kind of 10 to 20 minute response times you need for people who are in imminent danger of collapse/ coma/ death.
Cassandra – it’s certainly not a one-off, but it’s not from the majority of members in your view, is it?
@kittehs
did you fucking read the thread? Leum said they were worried their friend might get instantutionalized, which is the reason we’re talking about it.
And this isn’t me nitpickign a prhase. it’s me saying i don’t feel fucking comftorable here with so many people supporting calling the cops Because utnil fucking recently it seemed like it waas okay to say on this site when you got really fucking uncomftorable.
Also it sounded like the friend wasn’t anywhere near Leum, geographically speaking. When that’s the situation then calling 911 or whatever the local equivalent is may well be the only option available.
@kittehs
@ kittehs
Well, no, but look at the way this thread has gone, and imagine that you’re Leum coming back in and reading it starting from where zie left off.
Yeah, because nobody else has needs or feelings or fears apart from the people who’re depressed, do they, Marie?
Saying you’re uncomfortable is one thing. Jumping on people with nitpicking (Tracy) and blamey talk (Leum) is quite another.
I rlly can’t understand that. It seemed to me that’s how you were grouping us. “good” people who are happy that they are prevented from suicide by the cops, and “Bad” people who were unhappy with it. i mean you pretty much said this
and acted like that was the only people we should listen to.
My point is *if* you only take the suicidal people who agree it’s okay to call the cops on them and you ignore the people who don’t, it’s bs. You can’t just cherry pick which members of a group you’re going to listen to about their experiences.
Idk if that was any clearer
Cassandra, yeah, exactly.
It was clearer, Fade – and the reason I said it is that you ignored the people who don’t feel about it the way you do.