Curious about the views of the people scheduled to speak at A Voice for Men’s “Men’s Issues” conference next week? Here’s a little video guide. CONTENT WARNING: Domestic violence, rape, incest.
If you’d like to have their quotes in writing for future reference, here’s a transcript of the quotes used in the video. I’ve linked to the source of each quote (or to posts of mine that discuss the quotes in greater detail). Enjoy!
Mike Buchanan has said:
I believe girls learn at a young age that whining gets them what they want, especially from over-indulgent parents who might later wonder why their daughters became Entitlement Princesses. Inevitably these girls continue whining into adolescence and adulthood because they continue to get what they want. It’s up to men to break the cycle …
Men living in houses with cellars can put a sign on the cellar door, ‘The Whine Cellar’, and politely direct whining women towards it. In houses without a cellar, the smallest room in the house – or possibly the garden shed – could be designated ‘The Whine Box’.
Mike Buchanan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Mike Buchanan is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Buchanan’s quote
Stefan Molyneux has said:
Women who choose the assholes will fucking end this race. They will fucking end this human race, if we don’t start holding them a-fucking-ccountable. … Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse. Women who choose assholes guarantee criminality, sociopathy. Politicians, all the cold-hearted jerks who run the world came out of the vaginas of women who married assholes.
And I don’t know how to make the world a better place without holding women accountable for choosing assholes. Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him. Because it works on so many women. If “asshole” wasn’t a great reproductive strategy it would have been gone long ago. Women keep that black bastard flame alive. They cup their hands around it, they protect it with their bodies. They keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these guys.
If being an asshole didn’t get women, there would be no assholes left. If women chose nice guys over assholes we would have a glorious and peaceful world in one generation. Women determine the personality traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with, and who to have children with, and who to expose those children to. …
Your dad is who he is fundamentally because your mother was willing to fuck him and have you. Willing and eager to fuck the monster. Stop fucking monsters and we get a great world. Keep fucking monsters, we get catastrophes, we get war, we get nuclear weapons, we get national debt, we get incarcerations … Women worship at the feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil. And then you know what they say? We’re victims!
Stefan Molyneux is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men.
Stefan Molyneux is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Molyneux’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a more complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity, for length, and to remove some repetition.
Erin Pizzey has said:
If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this–I didn’t know her but I knew of her, and I knew Susan Browmiller and you can just read her stuff to see it there.
Erin Pizzey is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Erin Pizzey is a voice of hatred
SOURCE of Pizzey’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity.
Karen Straughan has written:
I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming. After about an hour, he’d eventually hit her, and everything would go quiet. An hour after that, they’d be out with the baby in the stroller, looking perfectly content with each other.
A man I know who has experience with men in abusive relationships would get his clients to answer a questionnaire. Things like, “after the violence, did you have sex?” “If so, how would you rate the sex?” 100% of men in reciprocally abusive relationships said “yes” to the first, and “scorching” to the second.
He also posited that the much-quoted cycle of violence–the build-up, the explosion, the honeymoon period–correlates with foreplay, orgasm and post-coital bliss.
Erin Pizzey called it “consensual violence”, and said in the main, that was the type she’d see at her shelter. It is also the type that results in the most severe injuries in women, surprise surprise, likely because our “never EVER hit a woman” mentality has those men waiting until they completely lose control of their emotions before giving their women what they’re demanding.
Karen Straughan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Karen Straughan is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Straughan’s quote.
Warren Farrell has said:
The worst aspect of dating from the perspective of many men is how dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom …
Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud. …
We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting.
Somehow, women’s romance novels are not titled He Stopped When I Said “No”. They are, though, titled Sweet Savage Love, in which the woman rejects the hand of her gentler lover who saves her from the rapist and marries the man who repeatedly and savagely rapes her. …
It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” … conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.
Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Farrell’s quote.
Warren Farrell has said:
Incest is like a magnifying glass. In some circumstances it magnifies the beauty of the relationship, and in others it magnifies the trauma. …
When I get my most glowing positive cases, 6 out of 200, the incest is part of the family’s open, sensual style of life, wherein sex is an outgrowth of warmth and affection. …
[M]illions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, and … caressing their children, when that is really a part of a caring, loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves. Maybe this needs repressing, and maybe it doesn’t.
Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Farrell’s quote. I have removed a word that appears in the original interview but that Farrell insists he did not say.
Paul Elam has said:
In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
Now, am I serious about this?
No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong.
But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.
Paul Elam is the central organizer of the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, and the founder of A Voice for Men
Paul Elam is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Elam’s quote.
For a detailed look at the homophobia of Anne Cools, another speaker at the conference, see here.
Big thanks to everyone who helped with the video!
*The idea that feminism supports certain things which other movements support less so
(actually here’s a short concise video about The Venus Project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl7Yq8QbPns – the other one is great but it is quite long, so here’s a very short video 1m20s long)
“Where is your evidence that women get into relationships with asshole men at a greater rate than men get into relationships with asshole women? ”
None. I didn’t say that. Judging from the rants at AVFM it looks like a lot of men are attracted to asshole women as well.
“The notion that the roughly 3.5 billion women and girls on the planet are attracted to assholes is ridiculous. ”
I said many, not all.
“Gay and lesbian relationships tend to get erased in this conversation too. Do lesbians like asshole women or is your contention that it’s a trait straight women have only?”
I don’t know. Ask someone who has observed lots of woman/woman relationships.
“It is also difficult to trust the definition of ‘asshole’ when it’s coming from a “Nice Guy.” IME they tend to automatically view all men who attract women as assholes.”
Your experience is different than mine. Yes, there are plenty of guys who are nice who have girlfriends and relationships, but I’ve observed many nice, sweet guys who have trouble establishing romantic relationships and cads who are popular with women.
“It has do with a combination of looks and social skills more than anything else.”
You admit looks are a factor? A few weeks ago I was lambasted here for suggesting that women are less likely to perceive a flirting guy as “creepy” if he was good looking.
“Ah yes, the gold digger defense. How many women actually get into relationships solely for money. Not that many. I don’t know a single woman like this.”
Really? I don’t know a single man who thinks he should be able to have sex with any women regardless of what she wants just because he finds her attractive. Yet feminists claim this is very common.
“Even if it was as common as you think, it’s not equivalent to rape which seems to be what you’re insinuating. When a rich man marries a trophy wife it is consensual. He knows what he’s getting into. Rape is not consensual. It doesn’t compare at all.”
I never said it was equivalent to rape. Its not even close. But it seems common for feminists to call anything they disagree with justification for rape.
“Conclusion: Psychology Today isn’t a good source of advice, and don’t trust that people with a PhD can always fucking do science right.”
And feminist bloggers and people who comment on them are more expert in the dynamics of male/female relationships that psychologists who study these relationships???
Elizabeth, are you reading what people reply to you? It would look from your comments that you never bothered to try understanding what feminism is, and cling to the terminology ‘criticism’.
You also seem to hold the naive view that oppression and ‘unfair treatment’ is some kind of accidental misfortune happening to random people and not as part of a system and its ideologies on certain groups for the benefit of others.
Go on, do some research on the subject and see that not only feminism is diverse but also its takes on intersectional oppression, and you may even find that the discussion about the name of the movement, its historical accuracy and convenience has been long addressed.
Well, see, the ORAs say some pretty terrible things, but so do the muffinis
So everybody will just eat PopTarts from now on. Like I do! Sweet and texture free is the way to go through life.
True as that may be, I learn so much just from reading the comments here. Like about ablest language and why it isn’t acceptable. I’m quite grateful for that.
I do but, like some others, I find that particular stance problematic.
For one thing, feminism isn’t just about “female rights” but also about changing the rather toxic notions about masculinity that are regularly pushed in society (e.g. the idea that a “real man” is one who is physically aggressive). MRAs, rather than forsake such notions as well, instead embrace them and try to argue that it is “natural” when – in reality – they’ve been enforced by way of societal pressure.
Second, a name is a name is a name. I’m not sure why “feminism” is criticized when so many other socio-political groups often go by purposefully misleading names, especially since it is more honest than (say) Libertarianism. I’ve rarely gotten into a conversation with feminists where the discussion devolved into demented conspiracy theories or rationalizations for mistreatment of others, like I have with MRAs and Libertarians (both of whom are prone to being dishonest about their agenda in order to gain converts, but who reveal their true colors when they are not validated). It was actually about feminist philosophy and its aims to change attitude by raising awareness of issues as well as supporting organizations whose policies coincide with them, not devolving into demented conspiracy theories or how to harass various people by revealing their address, home phone number, and where they work.
Lastly, you mentioned how one of the reasons you don’t consider yourself a feminist anymore is because of snarky comments. Do you know how common that is? It can be applied to just about any group, not just feminists, especially online. It doesn’t help that, like at this blog, many of those who post here regularly often have to deal with a constant influx of trolls. It puts you on the defensive because many of those trolls have, in the past, acted as if they wanted to discuss in good faith – only to then prove that they were simply disingenuous the entire time. I’d also argue that while many of us here are willing to be considerate and converse with someone like yourself, we’re still human and can only take so much bullshit. I never got quite this idea that you need to act polite in order to get your point across. Some issues you simply can’t be polite about (rape is one such subject) and it’ll make people (reasonably or unreasonably) angry. Obviously it is ideal to be civil and level-headed during any kind of discourse – but we live in a world where, more often than not, the person you are debating can’t be bothered to reciprocate similarly due to a sense of entitlement. You can’t expect one side to be so thick-skinned to point of being unresponsive, while letting off those on the other side as if they don’t need to compose themselves in a discussion. Being the “better man” can be overrated when, rather than being given any consideration for your stance, the other party is completely unapologetic and unwilling to behave appropriately.
I read all the responses, there were many which didn’t agree that feminism causes arguments, which I was responding to. If I have missed some important points please refresh my memory.
(@Sarah)
Elizabeth, if you are going to claim ‘feminism causes arguments’ and your only two reasons are ‘I find the name misleading’ and ‘there are feminists in this comments section tearing apart the pathetic attempts at arguments of a bunch of rabid misogynists’, I must say that your point is kinda weak and you’ll have to provide more evidence. Preferably showing that you understand what feminism is and not suggesting that you are just assuming it based on the name.
(also fighting injustices sometimes ’causes arguments’ and bigger things too, which are good to have or at least better than withstanding said injustices silently)
Honestly, if “causing arguments” is the whole issue here, I don’t think most of us give a damn. Certainly I don’t.
Not that I agree that feminism causes said arguments, per se. Just that it is party to them, and with good reason.
For real, this is just a huge, tone-trolling derail about how we need to be nicer and stop causing arguments and sounding rude and thinking mean things and taking away privileges from the menz, taking away privileges is meeeeeaaaaaaannnnn.
Is the correct video showing? Is it supposed to be just Elam butchering a word?
Huh, yeah, I’m also getting the Elam video. That’s not the right video! D:
The direct link I used and shared says deleted by user.
I’m seeing it fixed again, now.
Of course it bloody causes arguments.
Being rather ancient, I’ve had the great privilege of spending my teabreaks at my men-dominated job 40 years ago arguing with people who said openly, literally, to my face, that I had no right to be there. Why? Because I was a married woman and “this” kind of job – needing accountancy and law skills, but sitting at a desk all day – should be reserved for men “with responsibilities”. (Most of them were single I might add.) What they really didn’t like was the fact that these jobs were pretty well paid by the standards of the time. I also had to defend the fact that a court had decided that, gradually, not instantly, but eventually, women doing this work would be paid the same as the men.
I’ve been dragged into these kinds of arguments over and over and over again during the ensuing 40 years. Not always about pay gaps or rights to work, often about harassment, violence, sexual freedoms/rights and the rest of it. I honestly thought we were well on the way to what we envisaged during International Women’s Year – that was 1975. The last 15-20 years I’ve become more and more disheartened.
But we’re really in much the same position as the various indigenous rights and civil rights and anti-racism and anti-slavery groups around the world. Each generation treats it as a battle. In fact, it’s really a centuries old, multi-generation guerrilla war. We win a little here, lose a little there, win more somewhere else. Do it all over again. It’s a long, long journey.
Who cares if it causes arguments. Some things are worth fighting, arguing and struggling for.
When I came out in high school, back during the Carter administration (1978, for nonUSAians), that provoked some arguments. E.g., I thought I should be allowed to bring my boyfriend to Senior Prom, and the class president disagreed. Vehemently.
To dismiss feminism because it provokes argument is missing the point, in my opinion. There’s an old apothegm in social justice circles, “power concedes nothing without a struggle”. When Ida B. Wells confronted Frances Willard over the racism of Willard’s first generation feminism, that was quite an argument – and good for Wells for bringing it up.
saintnick86,
The first paragraph about notions of masculinity: that’s true and good. There will be some MRAs who have good intentions so I think it’s unfair on those individuals to generalize too much about MRAs.
2nd: I agree there are many other groups which have far worse names, more misleading and disingenuous agendas. In which case they are no good but that’s not relevant to feminism. Just because other movements are not good doesn’t mean feminism should accept avoidable inadequacy. The name is important. It is the first thing people hear, it’s what people associate the movement with, etc. If the name doesn’t get people onside then it doesn’t fulfill it’s purpose. I think right now the term feminism is not best suited to achieve gender equality. So that is why I don’t call myself a feminst, as well as the fact that I realize it is adversarial to copmmit yourself to a label (as in will make you an automatic enemy to some people), which is pointless I think.
The last paragraph: I was bearing that in mind (that trolls and criticism etc put commenters on the defence). It may be common for people to be arguing, but it’s unhelpful and avoidable. The arguing between people is perpetuated in part by the name of the movement (labels people into their gender group > implies focus on one gender group and leaving out the others > focus on one gender is largely perpetuated > some people protest the focus, and arguments and defensiveness etc is perpetuated as people turn against eachother… see what I mean?). If the name encapsulated all genders and rooted for gender equality as a whole there would be comparably minimal backlash, and gender equality would be achieved much more quickly.
I understand everything you’ve said latterly. I have found thinking about where the other person is coming from, listening to their points of view, then I usually find conversation runs pretty well. But yeah not always. But I think if someone is being angry towards me it’s because something made them angry, so I dunno if you see it like that but that’s how I think of it, so when they are angry towards me I just think something as pissed them off earlier and try not to de-anger them :P, I don’t think they are attacking me rather just see it as a sign they are angry.
*try to de-anger them/help them feel better, and I also feel good doing that
(when I say make them feel better I mean just by listening and seeing from their perspective, 🙂 that usually is enough I find, and when i say I also feel good doing that I mean it gives me some sort of sense of well-being/some kind of calmness/peacefulness/slight endorphin emotive response when other people release that anger or w/e because you’ve listened, kind of thing..)
Labels don’t create adversarial relationships. Power relations do.
But the truth is that women are oppressed not men. And therefore women need a movement, not men. That’s precisely why men aren’t included. They are oppressors of women.
Labels do create adversarial relationships. If I say I am an MRA for example, I will be creating enemies just for giving myself that label.
No that’s not the truth, I’ve never been discriminated against in my 20 years of life, neither my mother who is 58. My dad on the other hand has been oppressed in the past, when his previous wife took the children away from him when they divorced. People are discriminated against from all walks of life, some women, some men, some children, etc.
Elizabeth, if arguing is so terrible then why are you here arguing with everyone?