Curious about the views of the people scheduled to speak at A Voice for Men’s “Men’s Issues” conference next week? Here’s a little video guide. CONTENT WARNING: Domestic violence, rape, incest.
If you’d like to have their quotes in writing for future reference, here’s a transcript of the quotes used in the video. I’ve linked to the source of each quote (or to posts of mine that discuss the quotes in greater detail). Enjoy!
Mike Buchanan has said:
I believe girls learn at a young age that whining gets them what they want, especially from over-indulgent parents who might later wonder why their daughters became Entitlement Princesses. Inevitably these girls continue whining into adolescence and adulthood because they continue to get what they want. It’s up to men to break the cycle …
Men living in houses with cellars can put a sign on the cellar door, ‘The Whine Cellar’, and politely direct whining women towards it. In houses without a cellar, the smallest room in the house – or possibly the garden shed – could be designated ‘The Whine Box’.
Mike Buchanan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Mike Buchanan is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Buchanan’s quote
Stefan Molyneux has said:
Women who choose the assholes will fucking end this race. They will fucking end this human race, if we don’t start holding them a-fucking-ccountable. … Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse. Women who choose assholes guarantee criminality, sociopathy. Politicians, all the cold-hearted jerks who run the world came out of the vaginas of women who married assholes.
And I don’t know how to make the world a better place without holding women accountable for choosing assholes. Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him. Because it works on so many women. If “asshole” wasn’t a great reproductive strategy it would have been gone long ago. Women keep that black bastard flame alive. They cup their hands around it, they protect it with their bodies. They keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these guys.
If being an asshole didn’t get women, there would be no assholes left. If women chose nice guys over assholes we would have a glorious and peaceful world in one generation. Women determine the personality traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with, and who to have children with, and who to expose those children to. …
Your dad is who he is fundamentally because your mother was willing to fuck him and have you. Willing and eager to fuck the monster. Stop fucking monsters and we get a great world. Keep fucking monsters, we get catastrophes, we get war, we get nuclear weapons, we get national debt, we get incarcerations … Women worship at the feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil. And then you know what they say? We’re victims!
Stefan Molyneux is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men.
Stefan Molyneux is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Molyneux’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a more complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity, for length, and to remove some repetition.
Erin Pizzey has said:
If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this–I didn’t know her but I knew of her, and I knew Susan Browmiller and you can just read her stuff to see it there.
Erin Pizzey is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Erin Pizzey is a voice of hatred
SOURCE of Pizzey’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity.
Karen Straughan has written:
I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming. After about an hour, he’d eventually hit her, and everything would go quiet. An hour after that, they’d be out with the baby in the stroller, looking perfectly content with each other.
A man I know who has experience with men in abusive relationships would get his clients to answer a questionnaire. Things like, “after the violence, did you have sex?” “If so, how would you rate the sex?” 100% of men in reciprocally abusive relationships said “yes” to the first, and “scorching” to the second.
He also posited that the much-quoted cycle of violence–the build-up, the explosion, the honeymoon period–correlates with foreplay, orgasm and post-coital bliss.
Erin Pizzey called it “consensual violence”, and said in the main, that was the type she’d see at her shelter. It is also the type that results in the most severe injuries in women, surprise surprise, likely because our “never EVER hit a woman” mentality has those men waiting until they completely lose control of their emotions before giving their women what they’re demanding.
Karen Straughan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Karen Straughan is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Straughan’s quote.
Warren Farrell has said:
The worst aspect of dating from the perspective of many men is how dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom …
Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud. …
We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting.
Somehow, women’s romance novels are not titled He Stopped When I Said “No”. They are, though, titled Sweet Savage Love, in which the woman rejects the hand of her gentler lover who saves her from the rapist and marries the man who repeatedly and savagely rapes her. …
It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” … conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.
Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Farrell’s quote.
Warren Farrell has said:
Incest is like a magnifying glass. In some circumstances it magnifies the beauty of the relationship, and in others it magnifies the trauma. …
When I get my most glowing positive cases, 6 out of 200, the incest is part of the family’s open, sensual style of life, wherein sex is an outgrowth of warmth and affection. …
[M]illions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, and … caressing their children, when that is really a part of a caring, loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves. Maybe this needs repressing, and maybe it doesn’t.
Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Farrell’s quote. I have removed a word that appears in the original interview but that Farrell insists he did not say.
Paul Elam has said:
In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
Now, am I serious about this?
No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong.
But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.
Paul Elam is the central organizer of the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, and the founder of A Voice for Men
Paul Elam is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Elam’s quote.
For a detailed look at the homophobia of Anne Cools, another speaker at the conference, see here.
Big thanks to everyone who helped with the video!
@fromafar2013 I got 15 minutes into the google hangout one and had to stop when Elam started in about feminism always being a violent movement, and using Erin Pizzey’s dog as an example. I may try to pick it back up. It’s… well, it aint easy.
(Not advocating useing them, just puzzling pronunciation for kicks)
Also, it’s interesting that woodyred pointed me to a video discussing the death threats against the Men’s Issues conference as an example of what topic he’s most interested in at the conference. By interesting I mean telling.
“Fhum should be pronounced like trying to make the sound of a freshly lit propane grill, while muif should sound kind of like a cross between a meow and a seal barking.”
DIES LAUGHING
One notable thing: at 15:35 Elam says he’s going to get off his soapbox and let other people talk for awhile. That can’t be a common occurrence, thought it should be recorded for posterity.
That Jenga cat is such a good kitty! I have a feeling Darrow would either just straight up knock the tower down with a paw whack or walk by with his giant tail of destruction and accidently knock it down.
Well, I admit when you put it that way, it does sound fun. But probably really really not catchy.
I was skimming the thread when I read this and my brain said ‘muffinist’?
*I meant read, not said. If my brain could talk independently, I’d really be in trouble.
Muffinists, fighting against the oppression of the one true breakfast food!
RE: woodyred
Try to stick the flounce for more than five minutes this time! Oh wait, you will, because David banned you. Have fun elsewhere on the Internet! And oh wait, you’re still whining about it. See, Woodyred, that’s what we call ‘consequences.’ You apparently don’t like them very much. Poor baby.
RE: sebhai
You’re banning him too soon…
Nope, I’d say it’s more than welcome.
RE: Elizabeth
Here’s the thing. I’m a disabled, poor, mentally ill, queer, trans male feminist who’s estranged from his family. My problems include getting food stamps, finding housing, and arguing with lots of welfare workers who keep making errors that drop my benefits.
This is what I do every day. This is where my (carefully horded) stock of sanity goes every day, making sure I get basic food and shelter and can keep them. And I’m LUCKY, compared to a lot of people I know.
The reason I get into screaming matches with people on the Internet is because they say things like, oh, I don’t deserve these basic human needs. Or that I deserve to have gotten raped. This isn’t a mild disagreement over preferred ice cream flavor; this is people who tell me I SHOULD DIE FOR THEIR CONVENIENCE. I don’t mean figuratively either; if they don’t think I deserve food, or housing, or money, what do you THINK is going to happen to me?
This isn’t feminism causing the divide. This is them thinking I don’t deserve the basic necessities of human life. And no matter how sweetly they say it, no matter how “nicely” they’re still saying I don’t deserve to be here, which gets me angry. It’s not feminism’s fault; it’s the assholes who think I should die.
Bagelists are nothing but a nasty, aggressive counter-movement, and we won’t even get into the cerealists.
@contrapangloss
Bagelist for life
Back on topic (even though the diversion was quite fun):
Elizabeth, I seemed to have traveled the exact opposite path from you. I was raised conservative, and still nourish some faint dregs of ‘if only libertarianism was actually done correctly…’
Only, I kept running into these things that in being a humanist, I couldn’t address appropriately and that the framework of humanism wasn’t suited for. For instance, being told by other women that I wasn’t doing femininity right, because I don’t have a deep rooted maternal instinct that (what I now realize stems from patriarcical roots) all good women are supposed to have, lest they be lesbians, or (bleeps), or selfish (BLEEPS).
Or, for instance, the notion (expressed by male peers) that my parents must have been parenting wrong, because I liked horses AND welding, and did not tolerate dresses. Because I built boats out of duct-tape and construction debris, I must be a lesbian or a (bleep), and of course I couldn’t do it as well as boys (never mind the fact that I actually did do better constructions than quite a few of the boys of my age level.
Humanism doesn’t address the framework of “but what were you wearing?” in cases of sexual assault.
I’m still a humanitarian, but I’m also a feminist, because the strict gender binary for social behavior needs to change, and feminism (despite some flaws) is the movement that wants to go there.
Humanism is more focused on the basics of making sure people around the world have shelter, food, and security, and doesn’t care so much about the harm of gender roles. That’s not in its current purview, with some exceptions.
Feminism does care about that, and is very inclusive of intersectionalism (with some exceptions. (Certain radfems, while they do some awesome, can they stop being nasty to trans folks? Please?)
Okay, off my high horse, before I give myself a nosebleed. Time to go back to breakfast-food-ism-pondering.
Lids, the horror!
Please, please, say at least you are opposed to the vile practice of whipping cream cheese!
I’m an Oatmeal Rights Activist myself (ORA).
We don’t hate muffins, we just don’t think they’re part of a well-balanced breakfast. And that muffins are the sweet, moist, dense delivery system of worldwide doom and pure evil.
Muffins, denounce your muffinish wiles! Stop oppressing oatmeal!
I don’t like whipped cream cheese, but sometimes I whip some frosting. I whipped some lemon frosting for my lemon cake last night, then I cruelly diced up some strawberries to put on top. I’m a terrible person.
RE: contrapangloss
Elizabeth, I seemed to have traveled the exact opposite path from you.
Ditto. I was raised by a “liberal” Texas family, which basically meant that sure, gay people could marry, but poor people were scroungers and lazy bastards and disabled folks weren’t trying hard enough, and racism was totally over.
I became a feminist because it actually gave me a way to deal with the rife sexual abuse in my family, which all other philosophies that I’d seen responded with, “Well, you probably deserved it, now shut up and pretend it never happened.”
Lids, that is terrible, and awful, and so very, very cruel… It sounds delicious.
Sparky, how can you!? The ORA is just a spinoff of the oatocracy!
Wow. These guys are insane. That’s sad. They’re sad little men who can’t handle a world where women are their equal. This is how female oppression started in the beginning: Weak men. I’m just happy that the guys in my life are “feminists” and have the ability to think for themselves.
RE: M.E. Evans
We don’t use words like ‘insane’ or ‘nuts’ here to describe assholes. Chronic Assholism is not a mental illness.
I’m addressing this post: https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/20/voices-of-hatred-a-look-at-the-noxious-views-of-six-of-the-speakers-at-a-voice-for-mens-upcoming-conference/comment-page-2/#comment-516637
and specifically that this link gives any value in understanding how relationships should be constructed: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201405/the-secret-turning-friendship-romance
Psychology Today is not the source one should turn to, to back one’s argument. It is a populist magazine, and has been linked to misogynistic views (e.g. see http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2007/09/17/extreme-misogyny-at-the-american-psychological-association-convention/) but also had Satoshi Kanazawa as a blogger on their website (see this article for a takedown of more of his more obnoxious posts: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/05/23/the-data-are-in-regarding-satoshi-kanazawa/). I wouldn’t trust Psychology Today to tell me that it’s raining outside.
Back to the article linked by racnad:
– the conclusion in the article is based on the results of one experiment
– the experiment involved using a reward, which is quantitatively and qualitatively not the same thing as being in a relationship
These two features of the article suggest that it cannot be used to support inferences about relationships.
The actual article itself, as submitted to the journal, is full text available at: https://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/khan/documents/Jilting.pdf
The study itself is clear that it is limited to looking at the effects in the context of consumer goods. Relationships are not consumer goods. It is bad science to extrapolate the results of this study as though they speak to human relationships – something the authors of the article did NOT do, that was done by the Psychology Today blogger.
The full text article of the one on playing hard to get is here: http://ihome.cuhk.edu.hk/~b121448/hardtoget.pdf The subjects are limited to male university students in Hong Kong (quite a specific demographic) and in neither study (the article is based on two studies) were actual relationships involved. The results therefore cannot be extrapolated to suggest how people “should” behave inside of relationships.
Conclusion: Psychology Today isn’t a good source of advice, and don’t trust that people with a PhD can always fucking do science right.
Oh dammit, I have to sleep for 8 hours and I miss this? Stupid biological requirements.
The “out of context” card got played? I’m yet to see any context within which the hostility, aggression and violent rhetoric of MRAs can be made less horrible.
The “we should just treat everyone equally!” canard? This assumes everybody starts out equal. Which they don’t. This article touches on just a few of the reasons why, including the way parents unconsciously encourage different behaviours from girls and boys FROM BIRTH.
I wonder what the mothers of these guys make of their attitudes toward women. Unbelievable.
I read all of the responses to my comments. All interesting, thank you.
I was thinking of fmism/mfism being pronounced as fmIzum/mmFIzum 😛 I thought that was pretty catchy.
There’s a lot of responses and so I’ll give a general response rather than answer individually, sorry if I miss some significant things.
The idea that feminism supports certain things which other movements don’t (eg humanism) is a very fair enough point I think. Has anyone here heard of The Venus Project? If you like humanism + equality + feminism + etc I think you will like it. (This is quite a long video, it’s the best video to outline the concepts I think – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag).
It’s great that feminism roots for female rights I think, but I cannot say I think the way it’s being done is optimum. I stand by what I have said that I don’t believe the name supports the task of achieving gender equality as well as it could do. If the goal is to achieve gender equality, then ideally we’d choose a name which is best to do that. The best name is one that gets all people in support, together, rooting as one for gender equality. As soon as the name only implies+perpetuates being about one group of people and leaves out another group of people it’s a struggle. Hopefully you can see where I am coming from?