Curious about the views of the people scheduled to speak at A Voice for Men’s “Men’s Issues” conference next week? Here’s a little video guide. CONTENT WARNING: Domestic violence, rape, incest.
If you’d like to have their quotes in writing for future reference, here’s a transcript of the quotes used in the video. I’ve linked to the source of each quote (or to posts of mine that discuss the quotes in greater detail). Enjoy!
Mike Buchanan has said:
I believe girls learn at a young age that whining gets them what they want, especially from over-indulgent parents who might later wonder why their daughters became Entitlement Princesses. Inevitably these girls continue whining into adolescence and adulthood because they continue to get what they want. It’s up to men to break the cycle …
Men living in houses with cellars can put a sign on the cellar door, ‘The Whine Cellar’, and politely direct whining women towards it. In houses without a cellar, the smallest room in the house – or possibly the garden shed – could be designated ‘The Whine Box’.
Mike Buchanan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Mike Buchanan is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Buchanan’s quote
Stefan Molyneux has said:
Women who choose the assholes will fucking end this race. They will fucking end this human race, if we don’t start holding them a-fucking-ccountable. … Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse. Women who choose assholes guarantee criminality, sociopathy. Politicians, all the cold-hearted jerks who run the world came out of the vaginas of women who married assholes.
And I don’t know how to make the world a better place without holding women accountable for choosing assholes. Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him. Because it works on so many women. If “asshole” wasn’t a great reproductive strategy it would have been gone long ago. Women keep that black bastard flame alive. They cup their hands around it, they protect it with their bodies. They keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these guys.
If being an asshole didn’t get women, there would be no assholes left. If women chose nice guys over assholes we would have a glorious and peaceful world in one generation. Women determine the personality traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with, and who to have children with, and who to expose those children to. …
Your dad is who he is fundamentally because your mother was willing to fuck him and have you. Willing and eager to fuck the monster. Stop fucking monsters and we get a great world. Keep fucking monsters, we get catastrophes, we get war, we get nuclear weapons, we get national debt, we get incarcerations … Women worship at the feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil. And then you know what they say? We’re victims!
Stefan Molyneux is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men.
Stefan Molyneux is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Molyneux’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a more complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity, for length, and to remove some repetition.
Erin Pizzey has said:
If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this–I didn’t know her but I knew of her, and I knew Susan Browmiller and you can just read her stuff to see it there.
Erin Pizzey is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Erin Pizzey is a voice of hatred
SOURCE of Pizzey’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity.
Karen Straughan has written:
I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming. After about an hour, he’d eventually hit her, and everything would go quiet. An hour after that, they’d be out with the baby in the stroller, looking perfectly content with each other.
A man I know who has experience with men in abusive relationships would get his clients to answer a questionnaire. Things like, “after the violence, did you have sex?” “If so, how would you rate the sex?” 100% of men in reciprocally abusive relationships said “yes” to the first, and “scorching” to the second.
He also posited that the much-quoted cycle of violence–the build-up, the explosion, the honeymoon period–correlates with foreplay, orgasm and post-coital bliss.
Erin Pizzey called it “consensual violence”, and said in the main, that was the type she’d see at her shelter. It is also the type that results in the most severe injuries in women, surprise surprise, likely because our “never EVER hit a woman” mentality has those men waiting until they completely lose control of their emotions before giving their women what they’re demanding.
Karen Straughan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Karen Straughan is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Straughan’s quote.
Warren Farrell has said:
The worst aspect of dating from the perspective of many men is how dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom …
Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud. …
We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting.
Somehow, women’s romance novels are not titled He Stopped When I Said “No”. They are, though, titled Sweet Savage Love, in which the woman rejects the hand of her gentler lover who saves her from the rapist and marries the man who repeatedly and savagely rapes her. …
It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” … conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.
Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Farrell’s quote.
Warren Farrell has said:
Incest is like a magnifying glass. In some circumstances it magnifies the beauty of the relationship, and in others it magnifies the trauma. …
When I get my most glowing positive cases, 6 out of 200, the incest is part of the family’s open, sensual style of life, wherein sex is an outgrowth of warmth and affection. …
[M]illions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, and … caressing their children, when that is really a part of a caring, loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves. Maybe this needs repressing, and maybe it doesn’t.
Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men
Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Farrell’s quote. I have removed a word that appears in the original interview but that Farrell insists he did not say.
Paul Elam has said:
In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
Now, am I serious about this?
No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong.
But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.
Paul Elam is the central organizer of the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, and the founder of A Voice for Men
Paul Elam is a voice of hatred
SOURCE for Elam’s quote.
For a detailed look at the homophobia of Anne Cools, another speaker at the conference, see here.
Big thanks to everyone who helped with the video!
To be fair, out of the 721 comments, probably around 300 were from the troll.
My desk seems to have acquired a head-shaped slight dent in it.
Been missing you, David.
Happy birthday, mildlymagnificent!
Happy Birthday, mildlymagnificent.
That’s funny, ‘cos I distinctly recall you starting off by saying it starts “arguments between genders”. Which is
1) wrong. The problem isn’t that women support feminism and men oppose it. It’s more complex than that.
2) wrong. Genders aren’t neat, binary systems where everyone has a nice little slot to fit into. There aren’t just 1s and 0s, there are also 2s, 3s, negative digits, decimals, no-numbers, 1,334,201s, and the like. Who’s dissing the 1,334,201s? Nobody disses the 1,334,201s while I’m around.
3) stupid. You’re calling out women for rocking the boat, yet don’t expect men to be nice and accommodating. You’re setting a double standard. Perhaps unintentionally, as our culture likes to make both men and women think the natural role of women is to be nice and coddle the feelings of men, even if said men have expressed terrible, misogynistic views. That’s not okay.
Other than that, no shit feminism causes arguments, if the opponents we’re talking about are oppressive assholes who like their privilege far too much to let it go in favor of achieving equality. Which is, incidentally, how I think your average MRA is made.
So… feminism is bad because name. MRA is okay because name. That about right?
Don’t you think they chose the name precisely because they can address critics of their movement with “why are you opposing us? What do you have against men having rights?” They don’t need to have well thought out arguments that stand on their own merits, they just need to accuse critics of bigotry. They use social justice language without understanding the first thing about it.
MRAs are paranoid conspiracy theorists, like a lot of right-wing fringe groups. They claim one thing (like women raping men with as great a frequency as the other way around), find it doesn’t match the facts, and have to make up some giant gynocratic conspiracy to justify believing in their asspull stories. They are the Young Earth Creationists of social justice.
To quote David Futrelle: “I’m a man. I like having rights.” But the point is, we men aren’t denied any rights as a group. That’s not what’s happening, so it’s disingenuous to claim that. We may suffer from the backlash of a patriarchal culture. We may be victims of a number of intersectioning forms of oppression, if we happen to be poor men, MOC, transmen, gay men, disabled men, mentally ill men and so forth. But the oppression in those cases is not happening because we’re men, but despite us being men.
Perhaps there are men with good intentions in the MRM, though hardly any who understand their “movement” very well, since they haven’t run away screaming the moment they understood what MRM is really about. Who knows? Commenters on this blog have frequently asked visiting MRA trolls to point out these mythical “moderate MRAs”, who actually do something about the suffering of men and boys and don’t spend their time hating women on the internet.. So far, no dice.
You know what I hate? People who barge in, explain their uninformed opinion, and when called out on it, start whining about how meeeeaaan others are, I was just asking questions, I didn’t know that, why are you such a meanie meaniepants, waaaaaah!
If you aren’t familiar with the subject, try to shut up and educate yourself before shitting your ignorance everywhere. That’s far more common than you think. I hate it when people come to educate me about what anarchism is when they know jack shit about anarchism. It’s more obnoxious when they barge in with pomp and circumstance, loudly proclaim their opinion on anarchism, and when schooled by a frustrated anarchist who has heard all those bullshit talking points over and over, start crying about how people are not nicer to loud-mouthed, ignorant jackasses who have far too much faith in their inherent ability to understand things they haven’t bothered to study at all..
Same thing here, except with MRAs, there are people actively wanting to hurt non-men because of who they are. If you can’t see why the subject might be a little touchy to the non-men here, you really need to be quiet and listen.
Many people here are actively doing volunteer work to help other people. Chewing on ignorant trolls on the internet is just one thing people do. Words are important, but they don’t change the world by themselves. You need action.
As for ableism: If you’d read the Welcome Package you were thanking somebody for earlier, you would know that shit doesn’t fly here. Equating what you consider bad or hurtful things with mental illness is perpetuating the idea that bad and hurtful things are done mainly by mentally ill people. Stop it now.
What “others” are you exactly referring to, here? Perhaps one of the following?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Others_%282001_film%29
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Others
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others
So many to choose from!
(Rant warning)
Look, elizabeth, if you are indeed sincere and are finally taking a much-needed break to calm down and get some perspective: I was once very clueless. I grew up in a sheltered environment, and as a result, I saw very little of the real world around me. I sometimes saw “agitators” being mean to some other people, and I felt confused as to why all the hate and anger. Why couldn’t everyone just be nice to each other?
As I eventually discovered class, classism, economical inequalities and anarchism, I started realizing that being “nice” to people who had all the privileges in the world didn’t make them want to give up their privilege and “lower themselves” to the level of others. They had a social station above other people and they were liking it there, doggone it! I soon (quite logically, I might add) discovered feminism and its premise of there being many ranks of privilege, and how even the economically poorest cishet white man can still take solace in being considered socially above poor trans people, poor gay people, poor POC and poor women (who are all also infinitely more likely to be poor in our society than cishet white men. Class is a strange thing, isn’t it?). Poor white cishet men can still put down other groups to feel superior, instead of addressing the fundamental problem of how unevenly power is distributed in our society.
In other words, there can never be true equality if issues like race, gender identity and the like continue to go unaddressed. Acting like we’re equal won’t work: there has to be actual equality. Our culture must evolve past privileges before we can think about holding hands and singing Kumbayah together. Doing it at this stage is not going to go over well.
If there’s something to be said about my parents, they taught me that listening and learning is a good place to start when dealing with issues you know very little about. That’s how I came to understand that feminism, despite the name, does a world of good for a wide range of people, including almost embarrassingly sensitive, totally non-macho men like myself, and also why it wouldn’t matter if feminism didn’t help cismen at all, since we’re not the ones needing help.
In fact, I think that if feminism suddenly managed to get rid of misogyny altogether, the problem faced by men who don’t fit neatly into the toxic male role our culture likes to put us into would vanish as well, since it wouldn’t be seen as embarrassing or shameful to possess traditionally feminine qualities.
(/Rant warning)
Those are my thoughts on the matter. If that sounded mansplainy, please call me out on it.
@mildlymagnificent: Happy birthday!
Thanks all. Now we’re off.
I’ll be driving – but with fingers crossed in hope of finding passable Chinese food.
Best summary ever.
‘Ere, wot’ve you got against Elgar?
None of that sounded mansplainy to me, Anarchonist. It was another of your “makes me want to stand up and applaud” comments.
So I take it I didn’t miss much, getting occupied for the evening.
…. Huh.
Actually, David, if you see this – did you ever recieve my e-mail? I was wondering if I borked the address.
@mildlymagnificent: and where did you end up going for dinner? Was it a nice Chinese restaurant in the end? And happy birthday.
Oink oink oink
OK. It was OK, not thrilling, not wonderful – but someone else cooked it. I’m at least willing to give them a try again with different choices of dishes. (Though any Chinese restaurant that doesn’t have plain steamed rice on the menu as an accompaniment nor offer chopsticks automatically is never going to be top of my list.)
The most amazing thing wasn’t really the meal or the restaurant at all. When we left it was just after 9 pm. You could have fired a cannon across the carpark or even down the street with no risk of hitting anything much. I know it’s the longest night of the year, fairly wintry but not wet, and only 50 metres or so from the beach, but there was no one but the staff from the fishnchips takeaway place next door and we were the last customers to leave the restaurant. Driving home, we had to pass a McDonalds and a Hungry Jacks (Burger King in the US??) empty carparks again. Bloody amazing! Where we used to live the night would just be getting going.
“Don’t presume you know what my professional expertise and background is, you clueless fuck. I am well-qualified to attack the Psychology Today piece, which I did.”
I finding it very typical here that when the consensus view is challenged, the challenger is attacked with profanity, but only those with the non-consensus views are punished when they turn abusive.
So as to qualifications, here are the qualifications of the article I linked:
“Dr. Jeremy Nicholson is a social and personality psychologist, with a research and writing focus on influence, persuasion, dating, and relationships. He also holds master’s degrees in Industrial/Organizational Psychology and Social Work. He currently lives in Boston, Mass.
Since 2001, Dr. Nicholson has worked in education, research, and training. He has taught at the University at Albany and the Chicago School of Professional Psychology. In addition, he has applied his unique education and experience to health services research, development, training, and implementation.
Dr. Nicholson is also a dating and relationship consultant. He uses his knowledge and expertise to help individuals obtain the social lives they desire. He works with both men and women, of all ages and sexual orientations, through coaching, workshops, and educational products.”
OK Pallygirl, what are YOUR qualifications??
And since you are so qualified in the dynamics of male/female relationships, where are the studies that prove that feminist theories on this – such as any guy using the word “friendzone” feels entitled to any female body he wants regardless of her feelings?
Ugh! That Mike Buchanan is an absolute asshole! I once wrote a blog script about him because I didn’t like the way he criticized the Argentine feminists. He doesn’t realize how the catholic church grossly opposes women’s reproductive rights. He used the entire incident of where the women were mocking the priests standing in their way to vandalize the church as an excuse to insult feminism. He never once mention how terribly offended those women were by how the church was treating them, using it’s influence to constrain their rights to body autonomy.
Clearly, Mike doesn’t give a damn about women’s reproductive freedom (despite calling himself an MHRA). Yet a true human rights group such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch would not have, and didn’t, criticize those Argentine feminists for what they did. Instead, they concentrated their energy on calling out opposition to women’s rights in a previous incident in the country. For what the church is doing is a violation of the harmony of the Human Rights Charter and CEDAW. Women’s rights stand above the rules of the church, whether those priests like it or not. That’s how it’s supposed to be. A woman and her right to choose has more value than God. Period. End of file!
This is why Mike is NOT a mens/HUMAN rights activists, and I let him know. He’s just a profiteering, misogynist piece of horse shit! Definitely a voice of hatred.
Terrific thread here. Even for someone basically innumerate (when I run out of fingers and toes and nose to do a calculation, I stop).
Happy Birthday Mildlymagnificent and happy solstice to everyone.
@mildymagnificent
happy birthday! 😀
Happy birthday,
mildlywildlymagnificent!@mildymagnicent
Happy Birthday!
I thought your personal story was a very potent example of misogyny, despite it being ignore by our peace, love and flowers troll.
Happy birthday mildymagnificent!
very grateful for you being a trailblazer 🙂
@Felisha:
I noticed quite a few people who fell for that nonsense, too.
If they actually bothered to look up what the situation with reproductive rights in Argentina – they wouldn’t of been using the incident as some kind of example of why feminism is “bad.” Then again, maybe they just want any excuse to demonize feminism regardless. Stefan Molyneux will certainly contrive any reason to blame women for all the world’s problems – leaving out any horrible thing a white guy (if not just rationalizing it like he did with Zimmerman or Rodgers) does, simply because he doesn’t want any of the responsibility to fall on privileged men. Men being assholes? Whatever. Women who happen to marry them and have their children? EVIL INCARNATE (apparently)!
So I’m guessing elizabeth is off at AVFM, Stormfront, etc. being nice and we should expect the end of all oppressions any minute now?
Talking to Elizabeth is like talking to a record, repeating herself with the same: “you’re being mean!” And “just be nice!” She should say those things to the abusers, not us.
She doesn’t read the advice we give in the ‘nicest way’ possible, she seems to ignore it. And correcting her is her definition of ‘mean’.
Integral
So yes that’s her expectation anyway.
Well, Elizabeth was lost my belief in her Englishness with
because no English woman would say that. She’d say
Preppy? No a word used here.
And the whole “you’re all so full of hate” bs? Totally trolling, there.
….aaaaand you’re a voice of psychopathy / sociopathy / psychotic detachment from reality.
Posh is such a fine word. I like it. It’s got this lovely little tinge of superciliousness that’s quite… Adorable, in a way.
Preppy, on the other hand, just kind of feels like a weird cross between manic-pixie-dreamgirlish and mean high school girlish.
I don’t know why preppy makes me think that.
Posh, on the other hand, cycles back and forth between an uptight gentleman with a monocle, glaring at you over his paper because actually yelling at you would be too uncivilized and an older lady sipping tea, glancing at your uncouth manners from the lofty view of over her glasses.
It might just be me.
Posh makes me happy. Such a silly sounding word, with such a decorous mental image. Mental giggles, every time.
Actual UK folks might strongly disagree, since it’s actually their slang…