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a voice for men a woman is always to blame antifeminism antifeminist women erin pizzey evil women excusing abuse FemRAs GirlWritesWhat imaginary oppression men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA paul elam playing the victim rape rape culture warren farrell

Voices of Hatred: A look at the noxious views of six of the speakers at A Voice for Men's upcoming conference

Curious about the views of the people scheduled to speak at A Voice for Men’s “Men’s Issues” conference next week? Here’s a little video guide. CONTENT WARNING: Domestic violence, rape, incest.

If you’d like to have their quotes in writing for future reference, here’s a transcript of the quotes used in the video. I’ve linked to the source of each quote (or to posts of mine that discuss the quotes in greater detail). Enjoy!

Mike Buchanan has said:

I believe girls learn at a young age that whining gets them what they want, especially from over-indulgent parents who might later wonder why their daughters became Entitlement Princesses. Inevitably these girls continue whining into adolescence and adulthood because they continue to get what they want. It’s up to men to break the cycle …

Men living in houses with cellars can put a sign on the cellar door, ‘The Whine Cellar’, and politely direct whining women towards it. In houses without a cellar, the smallest room in the house – or possibly the garden shed – could be designated ‘The Whine Box’.

Mike Buchanan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Mike Buchanan is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Buchanan’s quote

Stefan Molyneux has said:

Women who choose the assholes will fucking end this race. They will fucking end this human race, if we don’t start holding them a-fucking-ccountable. … Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse. Women who choose assholes guarantee criminality, sociopathy. Politicians, all the cold-hearted jerks who run the world came out of the vaginas of women who married assholes.

And I don’t know how to make the world a better place without holding women accountable for choosing assholes. Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him. Because it works on so many women. If “asshole” wasn’t a great reproductive strategy it would have been gone long ago. Women keep that black bastard flame alive. They cup their hands around it, they protect it with their bodies. They keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these guys.

If being an asshole didn’t get women, there would be no assholes left. If women chose nice guys over assholes we would have a glorious and peaceful world in one generation. Women determine the personality traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with, and who to have children with, and who to expose those children to. …

Your dad is who he is fundamentally because your mother was willing to fuck him and have you. Willing and eager to fuck the monster. Stop fucking monsters and we get a great world. Keep fucking monsters, we get catastrophes, we get war, we get nuclear weapons, we get national debt, we get incarcerations … Women worship at the feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil. And then you know what they say? We’re victims!

Stefan Molyneux is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men.

Stefan Molyneux is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Molyneux’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a more complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity, for length, and to remove some repetition.

Erin Pizzey has said:

If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this–I didn’t know her but I knew of her, and I knew Susan Browmiller and you can just read her stuff to see it there.

Erin Pizzey is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Erin Pizzey is a voice of hatred

SOURCE of Pizzey’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity.

Karen Straughan has written:

I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming. After about an hour, he’d eventually hit her, and everything would go quiet. An hour after that, they’d be out with the baby in the stroller, looking perfectly content with each other.

A man I know who has experience with men in abusive relationships would get his clients to answer a questionnaire. Things like, “after the violence, did you have sex?” “If so, how would you rate the sex?” 100% of men in reciprocally abusive relationships said “yes” to the first, and “scorching” to the second.

He also posited that the much-quoted cycle of violence–the build-up, the explosion, the honeymoon period–correlates with foreplay, orgasm and post-coital bliss.

Erin Pizzey called it “consensual violence”, and said in the main, that was the type she’d see at her shelter. It is also the type that results in the most severe injuries in women, surprise surprise, likely because our “never EVER hit a woman” mentality has those men waiting until they completely lose control of their emotions before giving their women what they’re demanding.

Karen Straughan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Karen Straughan is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Straughan’s quote.

Warren Farrell has said:

The worst aspect of dating from the perspective of many men is how dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom …

Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.

If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud. …

We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting.

Somehow, women’s romance novels are not titled He Stopped When I Said “No”. They are, though, titled Sweet Savage Love, in which the woman rejects the hand of her gentler lover who saves her from the rapist and marries the man who repeatedly and savagely rapes her. …

It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” … conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.

Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Farrell’s quote.

Warren Farrell has said:

Incest is like a magnifying glass. In some circumstances it magnifies the beauty of the relationship, and in others it magnifies the trauma. …

When I get my most glowing positive cases, 6 out of 200, the incest is part of the family’s open, sensual style of life, wherein sex is an outgrowth of warmth and affection. …

[M]illions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, and … caressing their children, when that is really a part of a caring, loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves. Maybe this needs repressing, and maybe it doesn’t.

Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Farrell’s quote. I have removed a word that appears in the original interview but that Farrell insists he did not say.

Paul Elam has said:

In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess.

Now, am I serious about this?

No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong.

But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.

Paul Elam is the central organizer of the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, and the founder of A Voice for Men

Paul Elam is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Elam’s quote.

For a detailed look at the homophobia of Anne Cools, another speaker at the conference, see here.

Big thanks to everyone who helped with the video!

 

 

 

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contrapangloss
6 years ago

Also, posh doesn’t feel gendered.

Preppy, yep. When all it brings to mind is awful movie tropes of high school girls, that’s sad. 🙁

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@Charles Kokkpaekker: no ableism. Do you have a point?

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Charles, are you new here?

We don’t like using terms: psycho, crazy, insane, lunatic and other ableist words because there a lot of people who do have mental conditions and that doesn’t make them do evil things. They don’t want to be grouped with awful people. Yes the avfm don’t know how reality works but that has nothing to do with a mental condition.

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@charles

….aaaaand you’re a voice of psychopathy / sociopathy / psychotic detachment from reality.

NIce abliesm, chucklefuck.

@contrapangloss

Preppy, on the other hand, just kind of feels like a weird cross between manic-pixie-dreamgirlish and mean high school girlish.

I don’t know why preppy makes me think that.

idk, i kinda like preppy :3

contrapangloss
6 years ago

@charles

Woah, Charles, you snuck in out of nowhere!

So, um, would our new fine gentleman like to elucidate on his last post while abstaining from derogatory language towards those with disabilities or difficulties?

(Is that polite enough?)

@ Marie

Just me, then. Very well, carry on!

Alex
6 years ago

After reading this thread, it came to my knowledge that trolls seem to affect me in four ways:

1) the ones who are so ridiculous that I can laugh at them

2) the ones who are distressingly hateful

3) the ones who are so boring that I end up skimming or ignoring their comments

4) the ones who make me find a hard surface to slowly knock my head against

Elizabeth is the fourth category.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Rancid,
You didn’t actually respond to the critique Pallygirl made. All you did was provide the author’s resume. I have a degree in psychology and I can tell you that a single study with a limited sample doesn’t say that much. Results must be replicated and put to rigorous tests before they’re taken seriously.

I finding it very typical here that when the consensus view is challenged, the challenger is attacked with profanity, but only those with the non-consensus views are punished when they turn abusive.

Boo hoo. Yes, obviously regulars who are known to be posting in good faith are going to get the benefit of the doubt. Trolls, not so much. If you want to commiserate with your fellow Nice Guys, do it somewhere else.

And since you are so qualified in the dynamics of male/female relationships, where are the studies that prove that feminist theories on this – such as any guy using the word “friendzone” feels entitled to any female body he wants regardless of her feelings?

I’m not sure if there have been studies showing a correlation between entitlement and the perception of having been friendzoned. What we’re doing is evaluating for ourselves. Asking if Nice Guys feel entitled and are objectifying their targets is like asking if it’s mean to kick puppies. You don’t need a study for something that obvious.

Take you for example. You are acting entitled whether you want to accept it or not. We told you weeks ago that the things you’ve said regarding sexual harassment and creeping were offensive. We asked you to leave. Yet you came back. Asking us once again to prove that we’re allowed personal space and allowed to choose our own sexual and romantic partners without having to justify those choices to entitled creeps like you.

You’re standing up for someone who has literally said that all the evils in the world are due to women fucking guys he doesn’t approve of and you’re asking for proof that male entitlement exists? Seriously?

Isabelle
Isabelle
6 years ago

There is a whole category of folks that would go under::
the ones for whom I feel embarrassment by proxy.
I really feel bad when people makes fool of themselves and don’t seem to be aware of it.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

OK Pallygirl, what are YOUR qualifications??

And since you are so qualified in the dynamics of male/female relationships, where are the studies that prove that feminist theories on this – such as any guy using the word “friendzone” feels entitled to any female body he wants regardless of her feelings?

I don’t have to do this, all I have done is critique the Psychology Today post that you linked as “evidence” of how interpersonal behavours “should be” constructed in a relationship.

I have shown that the post is not evidence for this.

You have not addressed my critique. You have not provided any other evidence for why the recommendations on interpersonal behaviours in a relationship should follow the recommendations in that Psychology Today post.

You are the one asserting what behaviours “should” occur. The onus is therefore on you to provide the evidence.

I have trashed the first lot of “evidence” you provided. Do you have any more? Do you have any actual evidence against my critique of the post?

Can you actually argue scientifically rather than flounder and bring red herrings and goal post shifts into your posts?

Ally S
6 years ago

where are the studies that prove that feminist theories on this – such as any guy using the word “friendzone” feels entitled to any female body he wants regardless of her feelings?

Why are you so bad at understanding literally everything in mainstream feminist discourses? Like, literally everything?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

So, did elizabeth ever actually engage with what I talked about? No? Just checking.

RE: oinkoinkoink

Sorry, we’re not the cops, you want the station down the street. If you do it for them really nice, I hear they’ll even give you free candy!

RE: Charles Kokkpaekker

….aaaaand you’re a voice of psychopathy / sociopathy / psychotic detachment from reality.

You obviously know what you’re talking about. You totally know what a psychotic episode is like. Dumbass.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ titianblue

Wasn’t it funny? I still think Elizabeth got her idea of how both the UK and private schools work from Harry Potter. Which would put her in the prime troll age range too.

(If she was in fact a her, which she probably isn’t. I refuse to believe that any grown woman is stupid enough to believe that misogynists will stop hating her if she’s just nice enough to them.)

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@Ally: and it’s like he doesn’t understand what the word “friend zone” means, or how it is used. Language, who knew it had rules? LOL

Ally S
6 years ago

….aaaaand you’re a voice of psychopathy / sociopathy / psychotic detachment from reality.

Those three things are not all the same.

And for the record, I have psychotic friends who are far kinder than any MRA I have talked to. That’s because psychosis isn’t an absolute determinant of violent behavior, unlike being a misogynist asshole.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Rancid falls into the “makes confused face, shakes head in resignation” category of troll. He’s chosen to embrace aggressive stupidity as a lifestyle, and there’s not much you can do about that sort of person. There’s certainly no point in trying to talk sense into them.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Yes, and in particular as he consistently uses dishonest argumentation as his technique: set the topic, get called on it with evidence, shift the goal posts and write red herrings, and disparage dissenting commenters, all while yelling “gotcha”.

For once, I wish we could get an MRA that had some ability to argue in a proper framework. Sadly, none of them seem up to that challenge.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I’m not convinced that such a person exists.

Ally S
6 years ago

MRAs have a poor argumentative framework because they don’t care about the “rational discourse” they purport to have such a fondness for. All they care about is defending their privilege as reactionary ideologues.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The reason I’m not convinced that a person like that exists is that anyone who does have the ability to follow logical arguments is going to figure out that the MRM isn’t about anything except misogyny and anger about women not being property any more from a legal pov pretty quickly.

Woody
Woody
6 years ago

“All they care about is defending their privilege as reactionary ideologues.”

Right, that’s why multiple staffers at AVfM, including Dean Esmay, identify as gay rights activists.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Yes to both Ally and cassandra. The MRA way is to draw the conclusion, then set the premises to support the conclusion, and misinterpret facts so the premises are retained.

This is why I don’t understand the point behind them coming to a site like this, which constructs arguments from the formal logic method. There is no way they are going to convince any of us, are they coming here in the forelorn hope that they may change the opinion of someone new to feminism?

It’s like the preamble to the American Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident”, which is actually an extremely flawed argument because no truths are self-evident (except maybe some examples in the physical sciences that relate to stuff like gravity, fire).

I view the MRM as an extreme fundamentalist faith-based grouping. They hold firmly onto their beliefs, think everyone who believes otherwise is deluded, and view themselves as being unfairly persecuted for their beliefs – which serves to make them hold their beliefs more strongly (as in, the beliefs must be true, otherwise why would they be persecuted?). In such a worldview, facts are twisted to fit beliefs and any facts which cannot be twisted this way are denied as fraudulent. Science and logic do not penetrate such a system, except for where individual members become open to such influences.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Right, that’s why multiple staffers at AVfM, including Dean Esmay, identify as gay rights activists.

LOL, and what are they actually doing to promote LGBT rights? Is Dean still an HIV-denier?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I kind of love Woody, he’s such a fanboy. I picture him standing on the sidelines with a big sign with I BELIEVE written on it.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Do you think that Paul gives Woody a biscuit for every post Woody makes here cheering on AVfM? And for every 5th post, Woody gets a pat on the head?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

(Awaits next comment from Woody about how unfair it is that feminists don’t provide the biscuits ourselves, and how this proves that AVFM is right about everything.)

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Hmm… I don’t think we have any biscuits (cookies for the Americans) in the house. We do have lots of English type lollies and licorice, because we went to a licorice factory on Friday that does direct sales to the public. 🙂

I can offer lemon sherbets, Fox’s glacier mints, acid drops, and various flavours of licorice – with and without chocolate filling.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I have mochi in both chocolate and peanut butter flavors. Woody can’t have any, though.

(Non-trolls would be welcome to try one.)

piratejennie
6 years ago

@pallygirl

Offering acid drops to the trolls (or taking them ourselves) might make their comments more interesting and comprehensible 🙂

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

oooo yum, I like daifuku. Peanut butter sounds interesting.

piratejennie
6 years ago

And I second the policy of no mochi for trolls, cassandrakitty. It’s just too good to waste.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@piratejennie: unfortunately the sort of acid drops I have won’t achieve that: http://www.curiouscandysweetshop.co.uk/acid-drops-200g.html

🙂

piratejennie
6 years ago

@pallygirl

Crap, does that mean force feeding them Atomic Fireballs won’t actually cause them to explode? *note to self on devising new plan…

Thanks for the link, it made me nostalgic for my favorite little market that specialized in British goodies. I miss Salt & Vinegar crisps that make the roof of your mouth a raw mess in the worst way.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And now I want wine gums, and don’t have any. Curse you, Mammotheers.

piratejennie
6 years ago

And a general apology to all for a lack of substance in my comments.

I am still fighting a bad case of bronchitis and trying to balance the new medications to fight the infection and pain with the ones I already take for anxiety & bi-polar spectrum disorder.

I have been lurking and itching to comment, but deleting a lot because I worry about sounding cogent while so heavily medicated and (for me) easily angered or upset.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Woody

Right, that’s why multiple staffers at AVfM, including Dean Esmay, identify as gay rights activists.

And yet, they’re having Senator Cools speak there, and Dean Esmay was a former AIDS denialist. Yeah, THIS gay man is totally going to hang out with them! They’re a fucking rainbow PARADE.

RE: cassandrakitty

I have mochi in both chocolate and peanut butter flavors.

WANT.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

I don’t have any wine gums – they’re made with gelatine so I can’t eat them. I really really really miss jelly babies.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Allergic or vegan?

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Vegetarian. I can’t find any vegetarian wine gums or jelly babies. I’m also very jealous that the US (and maybe Canada too) has vegetarian marshmellows as I can’t eat those either for the same reasons (no chocolate fish, mallowpuff cookies, … /cries).

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

You’d think that would be a thing that would exist by now, since there are other things that can make sweets gel.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

In more interesting news than brought to us by woody:

I have discovered how my aunts little rat terrier Houdinis out of the yard, and closed that gap. The little beastie was leaping down a near 7 foot drop! And she’s like eight inches at the shoulders, max!

I am suitably impressed.

New fencing jurry-rigged, to ruin her escapes. The wee beast then cuddled up to me, since escaping was pointless. We’ll see if she finds a new spot for her escape attempts by the next time I visit.

She really should be renamed Houdini.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Even for someone basically innumerate (when I run out of fingers and toes and nose to do a calculation, I stop).

Fistbump from another innumerate, bluecatbabe!

piratejennie, urgh, bronchitis is the pits. I hope you get those meds balanced.

Don’t worry about being coherent, though. You’ll still be more coherent than the trolls, and if you read back on this thread from about twelve hours ago, a couple of regulars were medicated and still contributing cool comments regardless of typos! 😀

No trolls are getting my chocolate biscuits or cheese shapes. Let ’em starve!

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Agar is used instead of gelatine in some products (e.g. vegetarian sour cream, yoghurt). I’m sure there are heaps of vegetarians eating products that they don’t expect to have byproducts of animal killing in them. I mean, why would anyone think to look at the contents of yoghurt to see if it’s vegetarian? Licorice allsorts are another I have to stay away from – the gelatine is in the icing-type parts of those (I asked at the factory shope, because most licorice doesn’t contain gelatine).

It will be a simple matter of consumer demand. Manufacturers make products for people to buy, if people reduce their purchasing of an item, and it can be reformulated to increase market share, then the manufacturers will do so. /shrug

piratejennie
6 years ago

Also with regard to Woody’s comment:

You have to do more than declare your self an activist to actually be one.

One can be an ally, offer support, listen to and learn from the lived experiences of those affected by personal & systemic discrimination and oppression. These things are wonderful and needed, but still don’t make one an activist.

But (IMHO) to be claim the title of activist you need to, well, actively participate in sustained ways of dismantling those systems, or provide hands on assistance to those affected, or be a consistent, educated, and focused voice of dissent.

Have Dean Esmay or the other AVfM staffers you mentioned done any activist work for the LGBTQA community besides an occasional statement on Twitter or mention in a blog post? Please, I am genuinely interested.

I cannot find anything on Esmay doing activist work for the community and you didn’t name the other staffers, so I couldn’t check into them.

Also, OT but I have been sitting on my hands about this for weeks. Why the use of Paul Elam’s first name only?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Yeah, it seems kind of ridiculous to me that something like yogurt wouldn’t already be vegetarian. Then again, I just read an article about artificial nanoparticles being inserted into diary products (including yogurt) to make them look prettier, so I guess if the powers that don’t be don’t care about potential adverse health effects from stuff that hasn’t even been tested for human consumption I’m being a bit optimistic in expecting them to care about upsetting vegetarians.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Or dairy products, even.

sarah
sarah
6 years ago

@pallygirl

Do you think that Paul gives Woody a biscuit for every post Woody makes here cheering on AVfM? And for every 5th post, Woody gets a pat on the head?

Found some old posts on A Voice Of Men where they are blatantly bribing MRAs to brigade blogs, facebook, etc. (self.againstmensrights)

piratejennie
6 years ago

Thanks kittehs!

I have horrible allergies so this time of year is kinda the pits. One infection clears up and then another jumps in.

I appreciate your concern & your go-ahead to post while doped to the gills.

@pallygirl

If you like to cook, I have a few good recipes for vegan or vegetarian marshmallows. They can be fussy, but still pretty easy.

And I am in the same boat as you, a vegetarian (almost vegan due to a milk allergy but I do eat honey & real butter) who is a relentless label reader and who has assed myself out treats I really want to eat because of snooping out the non-vegetarian ingredients hidden fifteen items down the list.

Isabelle
Isabelle
6 years ago

I would have thought that most jellified candies would use pectin, not gelatine. But that’s the jelly and jam maker talking here.

katz
6 years ago

I imagine that carmine red also drives you vegetarians to distraction.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

My-own-nasal-passages-hate-me fistbump. I ran out of allergy meds and figured I could do without for a couple of weeks because I didn’t have a chance to go get more. That was not a good decision.