Let’s say, hypothetically, that you run a site that appeals to raving misogynists given to launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat. And let’s just say that you have gone to great trouble to organize a conference that is designed to play down the fact that a significant amount of your fanbase is made up of raving misogynists given to launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat.
Well, you probably shouldn’t post a public announcement warning the raving misogynists who will be attending your conference to refrain from launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat because someone might hear them. Because the fact that you feel it necessary to issue such a warning is kind of a giant clue that a significant number of the conference attendees are raving misogynists given to launching into anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat.
I bring this up because Paul Elam posted just such a warning on his site last night in a post that he labeled “Important Message for AVFM Conference Ticket Holders.”
[T]here will be ideological opponents to the MHRM, including some members of the media, present at the event. Some will be looking for anything they can to hurt us with. They will be listening, eavesdropping, and if they can, gathering things to harm us with.
For that reason, ANYONE sitting around trash-talking women, men, making violent statements, even jokingly, will be brought to the attention of security who will issue ONE warning (or less). After that, they will be directed by security to leave. There are no exceptions.
Please, for all here who are attending, keep this in mind with everything you do and say. Even at after-hours social events, if you hear anyone saying anything that can be used against us, or that makes our gathering toxic, pull them aside politely and say, “Hey, you are hurting us with this. If you want to hang with this group you have to stop it.”
Oh, I suppose I should acknowledge that technically Elam also warned his attendees not to “trash-talk” men either, but the only kinds of men that ever get “trash-talked” on A Voice for Men are men that Elam and his cronies have decided have shown too much respect for women.
I’ve never run across this sort of warning at any other conference I’ve been to, or read about. I’m guessing that when the American Society of Cataract & Refractive Surgery holds its annual trade show it doesn’t have to warn attendees not to bad-mouth their sworn enemies: Ear, Nose and Throat specialists. Or that the Electronic Transactions Association has to specifically forbid its convention-goers from publicly threatening to kill people who still like to pay with cash.
Maybe they do. Maybe they’re just a bit more discreet about it.
At least one of AVFM’s misogynistic fans wasn’t thrilled by the ban on overt women-hating rants.
In the comments to Elam’s post, someone called MGTOW-man complained that,
Of course I understand why attendees can’t be honest about women and men while at venue but what is to stop those ideologues from cherry-picking and distorting things said on AVfM? What is the difference?
Also, bummer! Isn’t part of the reason mhra’s are gathering…to learn more about each other, confirm similarities, discuss philosophies and potential solutions, and forge bonds, etc—especially during socializing time? It will be excruciatingly hard to do this if attendees lips must be sealed.
Will attendees have to take their talk elsewhere if/when they need to be honest but in which outsiders obliviously cry ” hate” because they do not want the truth to be told?
How come outsiders will be allowed in socializing time? Will attendees be allowed any time to gather WITHOUT snooping idiots probing for things to be mean and clueless?
I feel for these poor fellows, trying to come up with topics of conversation that don’t involve how much women suck.
In the comments here on We Hunted the Mammoth, Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III has offered some suggestions as to what AVFM conference goerscan can talk about if they can’t talk shit about women:
- the weather
- incomprehensible poster design
- the weather
- correct etiquette for eating cold stew from a can
- the weather
- hey do you think Warren Farrell is related to Colin Farrell or is it just a coincidence
- tie knots — the Windsor vs the Esmay
- ellipses and the rule of two
- why all women are bloodsucking monsters. I mean the weather! The weather! Shit.
Hope that helps!
If they’re not allowed to say misogynist things then they’re going to end up sitting around in awkward, resentful silence punctuated by the occasional comment about the weather.
Mmm – high blood pressure, increased stress – this conference could be actively dangerous for their health. Doesn’t anybody think about the men?
Q: “What do you call the useless bit of flesh around a pussy?”
A: “The amniotic sac. But since the mother cat eats it just after the kitten is born and it may contain hormones that help lactation, it’s premature to regard it as useless.”
Not a chance. That would mean one of them knows some basic biology. 😛
Q: Why is a woman like a bowling ball?
A: You would find both of them in a bowling alley if a woman decided to go bowling.
Maybe they’ll try to circumvent it by telling Blonde jokes – since 90%+ of them are are about the “dumb blonde woman” stereotype, perhaps they’ll try to claim they’re not sexist. And then perpetuate the same terrible stereotypes with what they think is a veneer of plausible deniability.
OMG, those jokes are GOLD. The lack of an offensive punchline is way funnier because you’re challenging a conceived pattern when it comes to those types of jokes. A lot of jokes are funny because the the ‘surprise’ factor, so when a joke goes a different way than what you were expecting, it often makes the joke better.
So… does this mean that AVfM is going to eventually adopt the ADA Initiative’s Code of Conduct for their conference?
Sorry, but this sort of development would be really funny.
So, uhm…
…Since I have recently relapsed into “MRA Mode”, what’s the troll challenge so that I can post here? I am guessing it’s the sexist-joke-change thing.
If that’s the case, I’ve got one…
“What do you do when your wife is staggering?”
“You give her a hug, comfort her, ask her what happened, and if necessary call the police and/or an ambulance.”
(I am sorry, I know it sucks. I kept perusing a “Sexist Joke Catalogue” -I don’t personally know many overly offensive sexist jokes- to see which one I could change and this is the best I can currently come up with)
Wut? I missed that!
Hey, your joke’s still a whole lot better than the original! 😀
Erin Pizzey, she who refers to feminists as “smell lesbians” and contends that women like being smacked around, is a poisonous, dessicated reptile desperate to hang onto whatever credibility she has left – if she ever had any to begin with.
“Smell lesbians”? What’s that translated from Pizzey-speak to English?
God only knows, Kitteh, though I imagine it’s probably what Pizzey thinks is a witty reheating of the “feminists don’t shave and are too ugly to get a man” thing.
I think one possible consequence of the “conference” will be that the drivel offered by these intellectual mice will be neatly – and easily – deconstructed in future writings by people who have much more credibility. I look forward to reading them. I’m sure that Elam and his co-horts all have diamond-cutter boners imagining the appeal they’ll gain, but I honestly think they’ll do themselves further damage, if that’s even possible. Hoisted on their own petard and all that 🙂
…It also of course strongly underscores Pizzey’s homophobia
But hang on… since they think that their sexist, misogynistic, violent and generally hateful opinions are in fact the truth, they are not going to realise that the things they are thinking are offensive and they will say them anyway. There might be a bit of ‘we shouldn’t use the word ‘bitch”, or ‘I don’t think we are allowed to make jokes about rape’, but for the most part these are going to be a bunch of passionate, opinionated and like-minded ‘people’ who are just not going to be able to help themselves once they get started. That nastiness is going to flow like a river, and they won’t give a damn who hears because they are so sure that they are RIGHT! They will be at the conference specifically to have their horrible beliefs vindicated by others who think the same way and there is no way that a warning like this is going to keep any of them from saying exactly what they think.
Also, “Men’s Unique Way of Healing”…I must admit my curiosity is piqued.
Also, “Men’s Unique Way of Healing”…I must admit my curiosity is piqued.
Women are like “Cure Light Wounds. You fixed? Oh, here, another Cure Light Wounds.”
Men, real Men(*), are like “Have a Heal, dawg.”
(*) Any male less than level 11 is a mangina.
“Why are hurricanes named after women?”
“Hurricanes are not named. Tropical storms are named, and they retain their given name if they develop into a hurricane. And, no, they aren’t all named after women. About 50% of tropical storms are named after men. I hereby conclude that you are a mindless moron who couldn’t spend 5 minutes googling Hurricane Naming before cracking a sexist joke”.
(Yes, I DO have a citation for this:
http://geology.com/hurricanes/hurricane-names.shtml)
@kittehserf
I recently posted a comment on AVfM again and I feel like a traitor because I really like some of the people here. It seems I still have some issues with feminism (though I still don’t think I can call myself an MRA because I haven’t done any sort of meaningful Men’s Rights Activism). Hopefully, you guys will properly shoot them down when I decide to post them.
@Louise McOrmond-Plummer
If Tom Golden’s youtube channel and interviews are any indication, his lecture is going to be about how men process grief in a much different way than women (from what I understood men tend to keep themselves occupied) and about how the current psychology field is ill-equipped to handle it. He is basically going to argue for a more work/activity-based grieving process for men.
…She’s on her way to lecture about intersectionality.”
Lensman: I hereby conclude that you are a mindless moron who couldn’t spend 5 minutes googling Hurricane Naming before cracking a sexist joke”.
I think the anti-jokes are funnier if you imagine yourself delivering them absolutely straight-faced at a bunch of mouth-breathing MRA-types beside themselves with frustration at you missing the point of the misogynist setup line. No lecture needed.
@jodie:
It’s like the racists in the USA who think you can’t be a racist if you’re not using ethnic slurs. As if a handful of reprehensible words is all that constitutes prejudice and discrimination. I think a lot of the AVfM crowd will honestly think they’re out of the woods if they avoid rape jokes and try not to call anybody “cunt” or “slut”. Once again, their utter lack of self-awareness is the one good quality they have.
@Phoenician in a time of Romans
OK, I got it, like this?
“What do women and screen doors have in common?”
“Inevitably insects will bang on them if the wind is too hard”
@Phoenician:
I think a “Heal Red-piller” spell would need to have a fist-bump as its gestural component. 😉
@lensman:
Yeah, that’s the right idea – take the assumption of woman-hating in the initial setup and completely no-sell it.
“What’s the first thing a woman does when she gets out of the battered wives’ shelter?”
“Find a good supportive counsellor and install high-quality locks on her doors and windows.”
Argh, I just sprained my eyes rolling them!
Band-aids are for wimps!
See, I’m thinking that’s one way it’ll go down.
The other way is this:
[stage, bar. Smoke curls around a low ceiling. Glasses clink together]
“So, hey, I was just wondering if any of you guys ever noticed how the sun only shines on some days”
“Huh? Wassat, Steve?”
“It’s just, y’know, the… weather. The sun only ever shines on some days and all the other poor days just get rain. Think about deserts for a second… No clouds. The sky doesn’t cover up around there. What’s so special about sand, man? How come I have to look at fucking sun-teasers all day witb enough low level cloud coverage to block every trace of blue sky? I didn’t deserve that cirriform haunting me.”
“Yeah man I know what you mean! All men deserve the right to see the naked, vulnerable … sky. Probably through some kind of high powered telescope”
“Fuck dude, I tried that and I ended up with a restraining order… All the sky ever does to me is rain on me. Bunch of evaporative sluts”
“Don’t like the look of those clouds. We might be in for some more nasty weather. My car copped some hail damage the other day -”
“FUCK YOU! Not all clouds hail on things! Can’t clouds just be clouds without you hating them!? And what about all the clouds that never rap- I mean hail! You mis-cloud-ist!”