Let’s say, hypothetically, that you run a site that appeals to raving misogynists given to launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat. And let’s just say that you have gone to great trouble to organize a conference that is designed to play down the fact that a significant amount of your fanbase is made up of raving misogynists given to launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat.
Well, you probably shouldn’t post a public announcement warning the raving misogynists who will be attending your conference to refrain from launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat because someone might hear them. Because the fact that you feel it necessary to issue such a warning is kind of a giant clue that a significant number of the conference attendees are raving misogynists given to launching into anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat.
I bring this up because Paul Elam posted just such a warning on his site last night in a post that he labeled “Important Message for AVFM Conference Ticket Holders.”
[T]here will be ideological opponents to the MHRM, including some members of the media, present at the event. Some will be looking for anything they can to hurt us with. They will be listening, eavesdropping, and if they can, gathering things to harm us with.
For that reason, ANYONE sitting around trash-talking women, men, making violent statements, even jokingly, will be brought to the attention of security who will issue ONE warning (or less). After that, they will be directed by security to leave. There are no exceptions.
Please, for all here who are attending, keep this in mind with everything you do and say. Even at after-hours social events, if you hear anyone saying anything that can be used against us, or that makes our gathering toxic, pull them aside politely and say, “Hey, you are hurting us with this. If you want to hang with this group you have to stop it.”
Oh, I suppose I should acknowledge that technically Elam also warned his attendees not to “trash-talk” men either, but the only kinds of men that ever get “trash-talked” on A Voice for Men are men that Elam and his cronies have decided have shown too much respect for women.
I’ve never run across this sort of warning at any other conference I’ve been to, or read about. I’m guessing that when the American Society of Cataract & Refractive Surgery holds its annual trade show it doesn’t have to warn attendees not to bad-mouth their sworn enemies: Ear, Nose and Throat specialists. Or that the Electronic Transactions Association has to specifically forbid its convention-goers from publicly threatening to kill people who still like to pay with cash.
Maybe they do. Maybe they’re just a bit more discreet about it.
At least one of AVFM’s misogynistic fans wasn’t thrilled by the ban on overt women-hating rants.
In the comments to Elam’s post, someone called MGTOW-man complained that,
Of course I understand why attendees can’t be honest about women and men while at venue but what is to stop those ideologues from cherry-picking and distorting things said on AVfM? What is the difference?
Also, bummer! Isn’t part of the reason mhra’s are gathering…to learn more about each other, confirm similarities, discuss philosophies and potential solutions, and forge bonds, etc—especially during socializing time? It will be excruciatingly hard to do this if attendees lips must be sealed.
Will attendees have to take their talk elsewhere if/when they need to be honest but in which outsiders obliviously cry ” hate” because they do not want the truth to be told?
How come outsiders will be allowed in socializing time? Will attendees be allowed any time to gather WITHOUT snooping idiots probing for things to be mean and clueless?
I feel for these poor fellows, trying to come up with topics of conversation that don’t involve how much women suck.
In the comments here on We Hunted the Mammoth, Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III has offered some suggestions as to what AVFM conference goerscan can talk about if they can’t talk shit about women:
- the weather
- incomprehensible poster design
- the weather
- correct etiquette for eating cold stew from a can
- the weather
- hey do you think Warren Farrell is related to Colin Farrell or is it just a coincidence
- tie knots — the Windsor vs the Esmay
- ellipses and the rule of two
- why all women are bloodsucking monsters. I mean the weather! The weather! Shit.
Hope that helps!
But only at the conference, in front of press people, otherwise they can carry on with their normal program of bigotry and hatefulness.
Yep, this is such a wonderful example of a human right’s movement.
Got it in one, @pallygirl. If Paul Elam posted a notice on the AVfM website tomorrow that said they wouldn’t tolerate hateful speech against women there either, the entire organisation would be defunct within a week.
@Woody A human rights conference? Oh puh-leaze. Try Klan meeting.
Yes, but not to create a safe space, but to ensure the movement doesn’t look like the sort of movement that has a lot of bigotry and hate in it, which it is.
Pau Elam is self destructing. He is making avfm look worse. By banning reporters like sworebytheprecious and others he is putting forward censorship of the media. That is not right. I have witnessed many conferences and gatherings by different groups allow reporters with differing views. That is what makes a free democracy. But Elam doesn’t see that he has this myopia being paranoid of letting people report on the convention.
He doesn’t realize he could even make himself “look good” by allowing a different perspective such as feminist one and it shows that in reality these so called mens rights guys should be working together with feminists to help better our world for not only men but all humanity. But Paul and his mra cohorts are blind to that and choose to censor and continue a hateful movement. Heck apparently even mgtow’s are supposedly emailing sworebytheprecious that they think she should be allowed to observe the conference. But Elam is self sabotaging his own ambitions and he will pay a price for this.
Someone should have one of those clicker type traffic counters and record how many times he says the word challenge. It’s the first thing I noticed about his “style” (over at Ally Fogg’s blog) and he seems totally unable to vary it.
@mildlymagnificent: if the livestream didn’t involve paying $20 to AVfM I’d suggest that sounded like a drinking game. 😀
Drink every time he says “challenge” and refill every time he mentions his blog?
Are you trying to kill us all? I’m only 5ft2, there’s a limit to how much booze I can take.
RE: thebewilderness
Tragical that ANTZ cannot attend. I am sure he would be as big a hit there as he was here.
Impossible. He was… okay, he wasn’t my favorite troll, but he might warrant the top ten!
RE: Marie
Ps: fade says that was possibly the best use of ‘checkmate, feminists’ ever.
I’m so sad that nobody believed me. I got the black cloak for my dramatic reveal and nobody noticed! *weeps*
RE: Dan
I find it hilarious that none of you adress any of the arguments these mens rights activists make, instead attacking them as misogynists, rather than listen or considering what they say.
You realize the header bar says, “The New Misogyny, tracked and mocked,” not, “The new misogyny, analyzed and academically discussed,” right? Can you not read? If you want analysis, go to a fucking analysis website, the whole wide Internet can surely accommodate you.
RE: Auntie Alias
Dr. Tara Palmatier – The crisis relationship
What is this? Are there any more details you could share on this? Is it about partner abuse or crisis management or what?
RE: Woody
Right, so Paul posts a notice which effectively says that bigotry and hatefulness will not be tolerated, and this gets him mocked on We Hunted the Mammoth. It’s good to know what is considered mock-worthy around here.
Nope! Thanks for playing, Woody. We can always count on you speaking on Elam’s behalf.
That’s ambitious and should go swimmingly, especially if JudgyB is still their PR director.
Erin Pizzey on DV and Feminism, Karen Straughan on Antifeminism. Sounds like a hoot.
“Erin Pizzey – Domestic violence and feminism
Barbara Kay – Misandry in media
Karen Straughan – Antifeminism”
I bet those will be the most attended.
And it seems like they chose women (cis) to talk about the most sensitive matters, so trash-talking women will be hard… Oh wait…
Even if they do so, a women saying women want to be beaten/raped will never look as bad to the audience as men (cis) saying it.
@pallygirl
That’s the delicious irony of it. Once they get rolling on the AVFM talking points, they’re doomed, like Dean Esmay was on the Detroit Fox affiliate. As for which press, they’ve mentioned ABC, Time, and the Washington Post. (Let’s hope the WP doesn’t send George Will on a road trip.)
@LBT
Sorry, I don’t know any other details. From what I’ve seen on AVFM, Dr. Tara Palmatier demonizes mentally ill women who were/are in relationships with men. “The Crisis Relationship” sounds right up her alley. 🙁
I think George Will (in his current “being raped confers coveted status” mode) is exactly the man to cover this conference.
@Aunty Alias
It’s been a while since I strapped on my hip waders and made my way through AVfM, but IIRC Dr Tara specifically helped men in relationships with bi-polar women and, oh boy, did she and her readers have a lot to say about bi-polar women.
Um. Yeah. You don’t tend to see people posting a blatant attempt to restrain the usual chatter, unless even THEY know that the usual chatter is a “bad thing, mmmkay?”
I’ve been thinking the same thing. Usually rational, thoughtful adults don’t need reminders to behave well in public.
I’d give an awful lot of the discretionary income I don’t have to be in attendance at that conference, wearing a wire, and some of those nifty hipster glasses with the camera in the frame.
‘Please, for all here who are attending, keep this in mind with everything you do and say. Even at after-hours social events, if you hear anyone saying anything that can be used against us, or that makes our gathering toxic, pull them aside politely and say, “Hey, you are hurting us with this. If you want to hang with this group you have to stop it.”’
Oh, the bar banter is going to be classic…
“What do you tell a woman with two black eyes?”
“Domestic violence is a crime. She should leave her abusive partner and seek help.”
“What do you call a woman between two houses? ”
“Her name.”
“So a black woman, a Mexican woman, and a Jewish woman are walkign down the street. They were in a parade celebrating racial equality.”
“What do you call a black man flying a plane?”
“A pilot, you fucking racist.”
-A joke my lab partner told me at college
“How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?”
“One, and she does it just as well as a man.”
“What’s the one guaranteed way to make your woman say yes?”
“Ask her if she’d like you to do an equal share of the housework.”
Yeah, it’ll be SO NATURAL and CASUAL, just a bunch of guys hanging out and chilling and talking about stuff.
“What have women and condoms got in common?”
“Neither of them had national voting rights before 1920. Condoms still don’t.”
“What s the difference between a woman with PMS and a pit bull?”
“Quite a lot, really.”
“How many women does it take to change a light bulb?”
“One. Unless she needs someone to help hold a stepladder, which is good safety practice regardless of gender.”
I suspect it will be more like.
“So, divorce. We all know that women only initiate divorces because they want to ride the…”
“Um, Dave? Dave! Remember the policy?”
“Shit. Well, OK, but you have to admit that most rape accusations are false because…”
“Fuck, we can’t say that either, can we?”
“Yeah but I mean, women’s voices, they’re so annoying, wouldn’t it be great if we could just cut out their…”
“Dave!”
“Well, shit, what are we supposed to talk about, then?”
CK, they’re not going to be able to help themselves. They’re going to couch their words in what they think is objective, neutral tones, but their underlying misogyny will be dripping out.