A Voice for Men likes to present itself as a voice for gay men as well as straight ones. In a recent post, site founder and chief fulminator Paul Elam declared that
We regard men as human beings, regardless of their sexuality. And most of us feel that this is the salve that heals what has in recent history been inflicted on gay men.
No mention of lesbians, but of course they’re women, and Elam does not seem to like women very much.
AVFM managing editor Dean Esmay, meanwhile, likes to present himself as a champion not only of gay men but of lesbians as well, boasting in one recent tweet that “I have been lesbian-supporting since the ’80s.”
So why is AVFM giving a platform to one of Canada’s most influential opponents of same-sex marriage — and gay and lesbian rights in general?
Canadian Senator Anne Cools, one of the scheduled speakers at AVFM’s upcoming “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, has been a staunch opponent of same-sex marriage for decades.
Her objection? That only heterosexual marriage deserves legal protection because gay people can’t make babies – at least not with each other – thus making their interest in sex all about lust.
In a speech before the Canadian senate, she argued that
The public interest in marriage is reproduction, the continuation of the species, the offspring. There is no public interest in sex or the gratification of sexual impulses for their own sake. …
[L]ust, like all human passions, is not to be trusted. Lust and sex on their own have no public character and contain no public interest or public good. Marriage is about man and woman in a peculiar act of bringing forth offspring.
Never mind that plenty of stright couples don’t, or can’t, have kids. Or that some trans men can.
She’s not simply an opponent of same-sex marriage. Cools has consistently opposed other legislation designed to afford gays and lesbians the same basic rights as straight people — and the same legal protections as other victims of bigotry and discrimination.
She opposed adding “sexual orientation” to hate speech legislation, warning that doing so would expose “millions of Canadians…who hold moral opinions about sexuality, to criminal prosecution.” (Needless to say, the passage of the bill in question did not lead to millions of Canadians being rounded up and arrested.)
She also worried that adding “sexual orientation” to hate speech legislation would somehow – I don’t quite understand the logic – encourage the “depathologizing the paraphilias” and ultimately lead to children being “seduced” into dangerous sexual activities. Here’s her argument:
The fact of the matter is, honourable senators, that we discourage children from smoking cigarettes because tobacco is harmful. I would submit that we are talking about some sexual activities that are dangerous and life-threatening. The committee should have the moral courage to hear something of it. I have lost a lot of beloved friends to a variety of these conditions. I have made it my business to instruct myself. That is the first question. You can think about that.
Ms. Landolt, your concern that the term “sexual orientation” is so wide as to involve a wide range of sexual behaviours is well founded. I would like to put on the record here for this committee a document called the Journal of Homosexuality, particularly, volume 20 in 1990. The subject of the entire volume is pedophilia and male intergenerational intimacy, historical, social, psychological and legal perspectives. If you were to open up this text, the foreword is the debate on pedophilia, and the second article is “Man-Boy Relationships: Different Concepts for a Diversity of Phenomena.” It continues with “Pederasty Among Primitives and Institutionalized Initiation.”
She continued:
I want to know about these children out there and the impact that this is having on them, and, in addition to that, all of these children who are being seduced at youthful ages and who are discovering what is happening to them two or three years later. I have done a lot of counselling. I would like to get a greater picture of the problems out there for children on these grounds, because this sexual orientation debate is going on here as though children do not exist.
She also tried to raise the question of “the medical consequences to individuals who involve themselves in activities such as ‘rimming,’ … sado-masochism and so on.”
In explaining her opposition to adding sexual orientation ito the Canadian Human Rights Act, she offered a similar “slippery slope” argument:
The concern is that pederasts and paedophiles will advance claims to engage in adult/child sexual relationships as a matter of human rights; that claims will be advanced on the legal grounds that pederasty and paedophilia are sexual orientations having entitlements.
For more on her various backwards views, as well as the source of that last quote, see here.
On Twitter, I asked Esmay to explain why AVFM is providing a platform for a woman who opposes same-sex marriage. He hasn’t replied.
Another curious Twitterer asked the same question of Janet Bloomfield, the official spokeswoman for the upcoming AVFM conference. She handled the question with her usual (lack of) aplomb.
Apparently AVFM’s much vaunted “compassion for men and boys” doesn’t apply to gay men who want the same basic rights as straight men.
For more on AVFM’s tolerance of homophobia – and Elam’s notorious attack on one trans women, see here.
EDIT: After I put this post up, I decided to see if I might have better luck at getting answers from Bloomfield on Twitter. The conversation went about as well as could be expected. Remember, Bloomfield is AVFM’s offical “social media” spokeswoman for the conference.
I didn’t see her comment about harassment until after I tweeted a couple more times.
Some more bang-up public relations work from Ms. Bloomfield here.
@Matheus:
Your “proof” that David is aligned with violent feminism is not comparing like with like. Most of what David discusses here is either quoting from major names amongst MRAs or people who closely echo their beliefs. Nutpicking a few radfems in the comments section of a website does not show that feminism is violent any more than quoting the KKK shows Christianity is a violent religion.
LBT – don’t forget, Elam sent out a call for dox, promising to award the doxxer $1000 for their names, home and email addresses, phone numbers, and places of employment. Now, why would a honest human rights activist ever *want* with this information, hmmm?
I won’t. I’ll laugh. Anyone who thinks that Captain Child Abuse is a reasonable person and a credit to their movement is pretty much writing CLUELESS ASSHOLE on their own forehead with a sharpie.
…is pretty much writing CLUELESS ASSHOLE on their own forehead with a sharpie boxcutter.
FTFY.
Grrr why is my strikethrough not working?
…is pretty much writing CLUELESS ASSHOLE on their own forehead with a boxcutter.
/sobs over stupid WordPress
RE: Alice Sanguinara
Now, why would a honest human rights activist ever *want* with this information, hmmm?
Oh, it’s just that they were PUSHED SO FAR, you know. *eyeroll* They’re willing to justify anything. Hell hath no fury like privilege scorned.
RE: cassandrakitty
I won’t. I’ll laugh.
I know, but I actually don’t LIKE knowing that such a hateful group exists. I ache to be reassured that there are decent blokes among them and have it verified. Contrary to Internet belief, just discounting a group for being assholes is not something I like doing. I’d LOVE to see these guys actually NOT behaving like a hate movement.
The trick is to realize that there are plenty of decent blokes around, but none of them would ever join the MRM, because they’re decent blokes.
pallygirl, WP did that to me with underlining yesterday.
::joins pallygirl in sobbing corner::
She cares about men and boys, so long as they are not gay (or trans, I’d bet).
So, she’s a bigot?
Well, I for one am shocked, shocked I tell you, that a bunch of misogynists would invite a homophobe to speak at their first ever conference. /s
So tweeting questions to an official PR rep prior to a con is harassment now?
Questions are orders now too?
LOL!
What a transparent, whiny dipshit.
Has she seen the tweets she’s been sending out lately?
What happened to all those frozen peaches they were on about when their fellow MRAssholes were (and still are) tweeting threats at feminists?
I thought that was “just disagreeing”?
…but questions about a speaker at your con? We can’t have those. That’s harassment.
Bwaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!
Honestly, if someone wrote these people as characters in a book, I’d think they were too one dimensional and outrageously bad at pretty much everything to be believable.
They’re the Keystone Misogynists.
OH YEAH! I ALMOST FORGOT! I remembered this while doing the dishes!
Remember when AVFM had Bell’s manifesto under “Activism”? Said manifesto called for people to bomb courthouses and murder judges. It only got taken down after the Boston Marathon Bombings,
ACTIVISM!
This typo is everything Strivingally!
Aw fuck, That’s exactly what I thought, too. Of the people I know, offline, who have been raped, not one reported it or pressed charges. Damn damn damn…so many rapist didn’t get brought to justice because of these damned shitty attitudes and rape myths and victim blaming. All the fucking pain this causes. Just, rape culture can just go fuck off already.
Huh, Trolli and Matheus came on and left at the same time. Interesting.
MAYBE THEY’RE ROOMMATES.
Aw, did the Scottish pirate metal scare off the chew toys? Sorry, everyone.
RE: sparky
Just, rape culture can just go fuck off already.
Yes. Yes it can.
The thing is, and something Matheus neglects to say… is that NONE OF MY RELATIVES told me outright they’d been raped. They just mentioned that the patriarch was a child-molesters. And that bad things happened. And interestingly, our mother had books on child sexual abuse lying around the house. I still don’t know for certain about my aunts, but let’s see, close to our mother’s age… child-molester in the house who molested other kids… two abusive marriages after that, including one extremely violent one… I’d say it’s a fairly safe bet.
But I suppose Matheus would consider my believing that to be a false accusation. Never mind that the fucking patriarch is dead and buried, so I can’t do jack shit to him. Nothing happened to him in life, and nothing will happen to him in death. (Unless the God he believed in actually exists, in which case he is burning in Hell.)
Awwww, but Scottish pirate metal would have been awesome!
Matheus needs a sippy cup and his blankie. He’s having a widdle tantrum.
Isn’t it adorable when they think we give two shits about their uninteresting opinions and dull as dishwater comments?
Poor widdle snookums. Him is cranky. Does him need to take a time out?
Him needs to take a time out.
There, there, stupid bigot. You’ll feel better after a nap.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6943160320/hD827CDA1/
It exists!
OMG I missed that! ::dies::
(Sorry if someone already pointed this out, but you know how Bloomfield tweeted that “lots of feminists are against gay marriage too” and then gave a link in evidence? Yeah, that (very old uncategorized Time) link has exactly zero mentions of anti-gay feminists. It summarizes common arguments against gay marriage and then ends with a quote COMPARING gay rights to women’s rights: http://swampland.time.com/2008/11/26/feminism-and-the-3-arguments-against-gay-marriage/ What does she do for her “evidence,” just use I’m Feeling Lucky on Google search terms?)
Aww…him is an ablist shithead too.
Isn’t that just exactly what you’d expect from an Misogynist Rape Advocate?
It really seems to irk them that they cannot find feminists supporting the horrible shit like they do. Even if they could, how would that excuse them supporting and advocating horrible shit?
Sense, they don’t make any.
*cackles with glee*
Well, except terfs. They’re awful. You can always find them saying horrible shit. You just don’t often see other feminists supporting them.
Thankfully.
Ah, I see JB is using the ‘hedgehog gambit’. This is a PR technique where the PR person curls up into a spiky ball, and refuses to relate to the public.
As for Matteus–Laziest… Gish-gallop… ever!
Maybe JB has come into a world from an alternate, reverse universe where they have anti-electrons, anti-protons, and anti-PR.