A Voice for Men likes to present itself as a voice for gay men as well as straight ones. In a recent post, site founder and chief fulminator Paul Elam declared that
We regard men as human beings, regardless of their sexuality. And most of us feel that this is the salve that heals what has in recent history been inflicted on gay men.
No mention of lesbians, but of course they’re women, and Elam does not seem to like women very much.
AVFM managing editor Dean Esmay, meanwhile, likes to present himself as a champion not only of gay men but of lesbians as well, boasting in one recent tweet that “I have been lesbian-supporting since the ’80s.”
So why is AVFM giving a platform to one of Canada’s most influential opponents of same-sex marriage — and gay and lesbian rights in general?
Canadian Senator Anne Cools, one of the scheduled speakers at AVFM’s upcoming “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, has been a staunch opponent of same-sex marriage for decades.
Her objection? That only heterosexual marriage deserves legal protection because gay people can’t make babies – at least not with each other – thus making their interest in sex all about lust.
In a speech before the Canadian senate, she argued that
The public interest in marriage is reproduction, the continuation of the species, the offspring. There is no public interest in sex or the gratification of sexual impulses for their own sake. …
[L]ust, like all human passions, is not to be trusted. Lust and sex on their own have no public character and contain no public interest or public good. Marriage is about man and woman in a peculiar act of bringing forth offspring.
Never mind that plenty of stright couples don’t, or can’t, have kids. Or that some trans men can.
She’s not simply an opponent of same-sex marriage. Cools has consistently opposed other legislation designed to afford gays and lesbians the same basic rights as straight people — and the same legal protections as other victims of bigotry and discrimination.
She opposed adding “sexual orientation” to hate speech legislation, warning that doing so would expose “millions of Canadians…who hold moral opinions about sexuality, to criminal prosecution.” (Needless to say, the passage of the bill in question did not lead to millions of Canadians being rounded up and arrested.)
She also worried that adding “sexual orientation” to hate speech legislation would somehow – I don’t quite understand the logic – encourage the “depathologizing the paraphilias” and ultimately lead to children being “seduced” into dangerous sexual activities. Here’s her argument:
The fact of the matter is, honourable senators, that we discourage children from smoking cigarettes because tobacco is harmful. I would submit that we are talking about some sexual activities that are dangerous and life-threatening. The committee should have the moral courage to hear something of it. I have lost a lot of beloved friends to a variety of these conditions. I have made it my business to instruct myself. That is the first question. You can think about that.
Ms. Landolt, your concern that the term “sexual orientation” is so wide as to involve a wide range of sexual behaviours is well founded. I would like to put on the record here for this committee a document called the Journal of Homosexuality, particularly, volume 20 in 1990. The subject of the entire volume is pedophilia and male intergenerational intimacy, historical, social, psychological and legal perspectives. If you were to open up this text, the foreword is the debate on pedophilia, and the second article is “Man-Boy Relationships: Different Concepts for a Diversity of Phenomena.” It continues with “Pederasty Among Primitives and Institutionalized Initiation.”
She continued:
I want to know about these children out there and the impact that this is having on them, and, in addition to that, all of these children who are being seduced at youthful ages and who are discovering what is happening to them two or three years later. I have done a lot of counselling. I would like to get a greater picture of the problems out there for children on these grounds, because this sexual orientation debate is going on here as though children do not exist.
She also tried to raise the question of “the medical consequences to individuals who involve themselves in activities such as ‘rimming,’ … sado-masochism and so on.”
In explaining her opposition to adding sexual orientation ito the Canadian Human Rights Act, she offered a similar “slippery slope” argument:
The concern is that pederasts and paedophiles will advance claims to engage in adult/child sexual relationships as a matter of human rights; that claims will be advanced on the legal grounds that pederasty and paedophilia are sexual orientations having entitlements.
For more on her various backwards views, as well as the source of that last quote, see here.
On Twitter, I asked Esmay to explain why AVFM is providing a platform for a woman who opposes same-sex marriage. He hasn’t replied.
Another curious Twitterer asked the same question of Janet Bloomfield, the official spokeswoman for the upcoming AVFM conference. She handled the question with her usual (lack of) aplomb.
Apparently AVFM’s much vaunted “compassion for men and boys” doesn’t apply to gay men who want the same basic rights as straight men.
For more on AVFM’s tolerance of homophobia – and Elam’s notorious attack on one trans women, see here.
EDIT: After I put this post up, I decided to see if I might have better luck at getting answers from Bloomfield on Twitter. The conversation went about as well as could be expected. Remember, Bloomfield is AVFM’s offical “social media” spokeswoman for the conference.
I didn’t see her comment about harassment until after I tweeted a couple more times.
Some more bang-up public relations work from Ms. Bloomfield here.
2cyar – you do know that Senator Cools argues that my husband and I should not have the right to be married, nor to be parents?
Please acknowledge this, elsewise I might suspect you of being disingenuous.
Oops, should have refreshed! I was much more powerfully ninja’d by LBT.
@2ycar
Wow, is your ass jealous of hte shit that comes out of your mouth?
Oh, you pooor baby it’s illegal for straight men to get divorced now? Or do you mean they can’t force women to stay married to them, hmm?
Keep fucking that chicken when most rapists actually spend a day in jail. Because that’s not now.
What? You mean like divorce? Which either spouse can file for?
No. No. No. Sex =/= rape! How hard is consent!? Hint: NOT HARD. The only people at risk of being called rapists are rapists, and even they aren’t at that great of ‘risk’. And then that’s usually the worst that happens, they get called one. Boo fucking hoo. Legal prosecution of rape is abysmal.
“How do you reconcile that?”
I don’t. I wasn’t aware of this before seeing this article. I haven’t confirmed that the quotes in this article are accurate or when they were made or any of the context in which they were said. Forgive me for not just taking this article at face value.
Men and women are literally indistinguishable in this regard.
Always, for all sex? Oh please, the bullshit here stinks to high heaven.
You mean the same “straight man” who also posted a manifesto calling for the firebombings of courts and such? Because AFAIK he was rather singular, and rather a fucktard at that.
Are you talking about that guy who was denied custody by the courts because he was deemed unfit due to evidence of abuse and anger issues? I’m pretty sure all he had to do was go to anger management to be given another chance, and chose not to, if I recall the case. Is that the one you’re referencing here? Anyone have the link to that?
“Oh, you pooor baby it’s illegal for straight men to get divorced now? Or do you mean they can’t force women to stay married to them, hmm?”
You must have the missed the part where I said that I would like to see State sponsored marriage done away with altogether. This would logically mean that either party could dissolve the relationship at will, at any time, without any penalties.
@Salty
Okay this is the second time I”ve seen some use fuckt**d on this site.
for the love of god.
do not do that
@2ycar
no, didn’t miss it.
Also, this isn’t hard.
If you don’t want to get married, dont get married.
“Are you talking about that guy who was denied custody by the courts because he was deemed unfit due to evidence of abuse and anger issues? I’m pretty sure all he had to do was go to anger management to be given another chance, and chose not to, if I recall the case. Is that the one you’re referencing here? Anyone have the link to that?”
There have been more than one. These events don’t get a lot of press coverage. The latest one I am familiar with was a case in Australia. I’ll see if I can find the link.
@House Mouse Queen
This is kind of old-ish, but…
As a radical feminist and a trans woman, I don’t see how the term TERF is a bad term at all. It refers to radical feminists who are trans-exclusionary, a subset of radfems rather than all of them. Just because they are bad feminists doesn’t mean they’re not real feminists.
The links are there. Click them. I’m pretty sure that offical transcripts of speeces given int he Canadian senate are considered reliable sources.
“Also, this isn’t hard.
If you don’t want to get married, dont get married”
You’re correct. But until marriage is done away with altogether, it is still a trap for too many naive men who don’t understand the legal consequences of what they are doing. In the mean time the MHRM will continue to educate men so they can make smarter choices in their lives.
@2ycar
*poor troll lost his citation*
So why did you imply that it was a bad thing that men don’t have 100% control over whether or not they stay married? It’s not as though anyone is trying to force men to stay married against their will, so you must be concerned about the fact that men can’t stop their partners from ending the marriage.
…Requiring a receipt, photo ID, and a name on the ID that matches the name on the receipt prevents misunderstandings and confusion?
Wait, I’m confused. Is it illegal in Canada for straight men to get and divorced? And whenever a straight man has sex, he’s arrested for rape?
So, 2cyar, since you didn’t know Cools was so opposed to the rights of gay men, that you are going to read that transcript from the Canadian Senate and then go rethink your position?
Right, folks? That’s totally going to happen, right?
Can we please ban this asshole? My husband goes to church with old queens who survived the AIDS epidemic, who still have HIV. This is actually really getting me angry.
RE: 2cyar
Straight men are literally setting themselves on fire to protest their treatment if family court
Dude, he was protesting having his toddler taken away BECAUSE HE HIT HER TILL SHE BLED. The family court treated him absolutely appropriately, which you’d know if you’d actually researched Ball’s case. A die-in was when a bunch of people dying of with AIDs collapsed in front of courts and died because that was all they could do to protest their treatment. You can’t even fathom what the fuck you’re talking about.
They can legally have sex, but are at risk of being called a rapist for doing so.
You think gay men AREN’T? You’re even more absurd than I thought. You think men can’t call other men rapists? What planet do you live on?
But until marriage is done away with altogether, it is still a trap for too many naive men who don’t understand the legal consequences of what they are doing.
Gee gosh golly and willikers mister, I sure do appreciate you forbidding me to legally marry so you can look out for my interests! That’s not patronizing at ALL!
@LBT
I’m fine with him getting banned. Did you already email david, or do you want me to?
Also, same-sex sex was fucking ILLEGAL in my state until about a decade ago. Know how it got repealed? Two adult dudes having consensual sex got their door kicked down by cops and arrested. My roommates are kinda in trouble because they can’t marry, meaning one of them DOES NOT HAVE HEALTHCARE. She hasn’t been to the dentist in years because other roommate’s healthcare DOES NOT EXTEND TO HER UNLESS THEY MARRY.
Part of why I had to leave my family? I was gay, and they did not accept my marriage.
One of my friends? Got fucking beaten in the street for being perceived as gay. (He was a straight raver.)
This is personal shit for me, and 2cyar is busy trying to pretend he’s fucking “saving” us by denying us fucking basic rights and co-opting shit we fought and died for. Fuck him. Fuck him and the high horse of bullshit he rode in on.
Oh and PS: guess who was getting beat up for being “gay” at fucking eleven. THAT’S RIGHT IT WAS ME.
RE: Marie
I emailed David, but if you did too, I’d hardly complain!
Wow, go fuck yourself.
There isn’t any “mens right movement” beyond AVfM, the Spearhead, r/mensrights and similar smaller sites. That’s barely a blip on the radar. AVfM brings $100-200k a year, with Elam pocketing an unknown percent, which is peanuts compared to a real advocacy group. If AVfM didn’t harass women and say deliberately outrageous shit no one would know who they are. The do both of those things quite a bit, so instead almost no one knows who they are instead.
You think these asshole cranks have done one fucking thing for gay men? You think that your shitball rinky dink non-movement in any deserves to be mentioned with movements that have help gay men (the actual gay rights movement, progressive movements, the Democratic Party and, yes, feminism)?
No and no. The 10 anti-gay myths from that article I mentioned are found through out the conservative movement and the Republic Party. Go to the Right Wing Watch and see how the most anti-feminist, pro-patriarchal political group in the US, the religious right, spends THE MAJORITY OF THEIR TIME DISCUSSING THE MOST VILE HOMOPHOBIC SHIT IMAGINABLE.
You have don’t have a fucking clue what it’s like to live where a sizable portion of your country thinks your a satanic sexual deviant that preys on small children and who is literally destroying the country from within. They discuss it all the time on their Christian radio shows, they even have weekly hour long programs dedicated to exploring the Homosexual Agenda, Big Gay, Inc and the Gaystapo.
Google “The Pink Swastika” by Scott Lively, who started the endearing right-wing habit of calling the gays nazis before importing his toxic homophobia to Uganda so that homosexuality is punished by death in that country.
Fuck you and your whiney “victim culture made white men the biggest victims of all” horseshit. Fuck you for thinking feminism and/or women have turned being a man to the hardest thing on earth.
Don’t forget to go fuck yourself first though. That’s key.
“2cyar – you do know that Senator Cools argues that my husband and I should not have the right to be married, nor to be parents?”
No I do not know this. I believe that she is (or was) probably against gay marriage because many people are (were). I suspect that she is against your husband being considered as your child’s parent but you as his biological father. I will educate myself some more about this.
RE: 2cyar
I will educate myself some more about this.
You educated yourself AT ALL? You didn’t even click the source David put in this very post. You’re a smug, ignorant straight boy who doesn’t actually know what it means to be oppressed, and you’re a tedious bore. Go fuck yourself with a cactus.