I was skimming through the A Voice for Men forum the other day and was stunned to find, hidden away amongst the other posts in the “rants” section, an absolutely blistering critique of AVFM itself:
Master bullshit artists, adept at stirring up drama and scapegoating, shifting all blame and accountability onto convenient disliked targets. … Used to getting what they want, having little to no accountability … and covertly aggressively lashing out at those who dare not worship them, being the one to start it, and repeatedly. Using an arsenal of social weapons at their disposal at anyone who gets in their way: accusations of [misandry], ad hominem attacks, constant contempt … public humiliation, playing on prejudices and hatred to turn people against their targets … going on the assault at others’ self-image, reputation and credibility over the pettiest of motives, the most outrageously falsely perceived slights, with calculated Machiavellian cunning towards their pettiest of aims.
Nailed it, huh?
Ok. SPOILER ALERT. I kind of lied. This comment wasn’t aimed at AVFM. It was aimed at “bitches.”
Here’s the opening wall-of-text paragraph that I left out:
I think manipulative, catty, conniving, calculating females are pure evil. Applying indirect, covert aggression as a power play, manipulating men to get in their good graces and climb up the pecking order, before aggressively attacking those who don’t “fit in” for their own sadistic pleasure, to aggrandise their own ego and to raise their own status. Playing the victim to stir white knights to go on the attack at their target, when they are the aggressor. Having utter contempt and disdain for anyone they sleep with. Expecting males to be Teflon and always shifting the blame when anyone else gets hurt – it’s always the other person’s fault for being hurtable, for not being Teflon – they always have zero accountability for any harm caused, deny any role in it, and tell themselves it’s not them to feel good and look good. Deluding people, by putting on a cute demeanour, that “she wouldn’t do that”. Using charm to beguile, while calculatingly lashing out at anyone who dares to reveal their true colours or who even sees through their mask at what they really are. Totally void of empathy or sympathy, while putting it on purely fakely to gain an advantage.
And here’s the bit I quoted at the start, though this time I’ve put all the bits I carefully reworded or ellipsed away the first time through back in again; they’re in bold.
Master bullshit artists, adept at stirring up drama and scapegoating, shifting all blame and accountability onto convenient disliked targets. Seeing their own cuntish wiles as meritous. Used to getting what they want, having little to no accountability, being placed on a pedestal and feeling they belong there, sneering down their noses in contempt at those who respect them (the latter being pawns in their power play), and covertly aggressively lashing out at those who dare not worship them, being the one to start it, and repeatedly. Using an arsenal of social weapons at their disposal at anyone who gets in their way: accusations of misogyny, ad hominem attacks, constant contempt and a complete disregard for other people’s boundaries, malicious back-talk, public humiliation, playing on prejudices and hatred to turn people against their targets, an opportunistic use of political correctness, going on the assault at others’ self-image, reputation and credibility over the pettiest of motives, the most outrageously falsely perceived slights, with calculated Machiavellian cunning towards their pettiest of aims.
Yeah, it sounds a lot more AVFMish that way.
Even after four years of reading this bullshit, I’m a bit amazed at just how much of MRA, er, philosophy seems to be little more than projection.
Ha Ha, that’s an excellent photoshop, I actually googled “Cuntish Wiles” even though it’s a little excessive even by pulp standards. The selection of images that came up were pretty bizarre. It sadly had a photo of Meryl Streep and Hillary Clinton together. Really Google?
Me Right Always!
I agree with one of the commenters these guys are persecuting themselves byprojecting so much paranoia and hatred at women. How could these guys consider this so called mens rights movement legitimate after spewing some silly, hateful venom. A week from now these guys are supposed to be hosting a legitimate mens conference. This is the garbage that they will spew. But it just seems like these guys are more angry that they cannot obtain sex than angry about real issues like male suicide and rape. It is a damn shame a movement that supposed to help men has so much hate and drivel attached to it, you can’t take it seriously. What a shame these hateful misogynistic , racist mra’s.
That is so depressing. But, even worse, I watched a youtube video about parents in India aborting female fetuses, or killing newborn girls. That is misogyny taken to a level of what I would call insanity.
More and more, when I see some of the thing humans do, I have to throw up my hands. I can’t stop people from doing bizarre stuff, and I don’t intend to let their insane behavior make me insane too. That would be pointless.
I hate to be the person who turns away without doing anything, but it is an endless battle with craziness, and speaking for myself, most of the time I can’t bring myself to fight it anymore.
Seems like the thread was deleted. Looks like AVFM disapproves of this person after all.
@ katz, fabulous!
*starts growing a backyard of oats*
How big is our stable, now?
We don’t talk that way around here.
Morally Repugnant Asshats
Seconding katz.
Dratman, repugnant behaviour – whether we’re talking racism, misogyny or any other bigotries – has Fucking Nothing To Do With Mental Illness.
Apart from the harm it does people who have mental illness using those terms; apart from the way it effectively lessens abusers’ responsibility for their actions, it’s ridiculous to talk about bigotries as “insanity.” Painting a whole society that way is absurd.
@ dratman
Just giving you a heads-up: although words that allude to mental illness (“insane,” “crazy,” etc.) are deeply ingrained in the everyday vocabulary of a lot of people (including myself in the past), it can be considered insulting to people who *do* have mental illnesses. So here on We Hunted the Mammoth, we have some unwritten(?) rules about the language used here.
again @ dratman:
I’m assuming you’re new here, so I want to warn you about some other things not tolerated by the regulars on this site, including but not limited to:
– Gendered insults (“bitch,” etc.)
– Stuff that refers to mental or developmental disorders (“retarded,” “crazy,” etc.)
– Albeist, meaning implying insults to people with disabilities
– Implying talking down to sexual orientations
Like I said in my earlier comment, some of this stuff is so commonplace in our societal system that many people may do this without realizing how harmful it can be. So try to use more fair-game words to express your points. For example, replace “insane” in your comment with something like “absurd.” 🙂
^Oh. Whoops. Since I actually used the forbidden words for examples, my comment listing what’s not tolerated here is under moderation. Sorry. I should have instead just said to go here:
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/comments-policy/
(only thought of it AFTER posting).
WhyDoesHeDrinkTheKoolAid,
No, the thread is still up. I’m not sure why the link wasn’t working, maybe donotlink doesn’t work with forums? In any case, I fixed the link and it should work fine now.
Lea,
I do the mixed Skittles/M&M trick all the time. I call them S&Ms. It cuts WAY down on greediness. The total look of shock and betrayal on some greedy kid who helped themselves to a whole handful of candy (from a relatively small bowl) when said kid finds out that it’s not all chocolate…is win.
Were those chocolate Skittles as unappetizing as they looked? (I don’t mind the occasional regular batch of Skittles, though I like Starburst better.)
Haha you got me too! :'(
Lol, this post reminds me of how I got into feminism thanks to… self-critical “masculinism”. And I was ready to defend it against feminists (about whom I knew very little) if they rejected it.
3 years ago, I found a 1996 French study/conference about “the advantages of rape for men”. I avoided feminism at the time, because it made me really uncomfortable/sad. There was a link to this study in the comment section of a book review and I was so disturbed at the title that I had to read the whole study.
The sociologist (male) was pro-feminism and analyzed/criticized the mechanism of men’s sexuality (ok not all men but a lot). For example, how it’s used as/compared to a weapon, how being penetrated is often considered an humiliation/a sacrifice/a present, and how all of this plays a role in the desire to rape, the strong reject of gay men, or prison rape, amongst other things… There was no hate, he did not victimize anyone, and he and his friends made experiences on themselves, went to prisons to meet with criminals, and tried to make them reflect on their act and sexuality, etc…
I used to never want to give a thought about men’s sexual violence (on women). This specific violence, for some reason, scared the hell out of me. Some said it was a “male need” and that “this man lost control for a moment”… So did this mean that men are creatures who spend their life TRYING TO NOT HARM women? That’s awful but somehow, it felt better to think they “lose control”… It feels much worse to realize it’s actually all about desires. and hierarchy.
This man (argh, can’t remember his name!) did other studies with the same approach, but I heard around 2010 he went to a meeting about rape and tried to make people understand that men and rapists are victims too in a way, as they are taught to be violent, etc… I guess he lost his mind in MRA’s circles, bye. His studies helped me in many, many ways, though.
My repressed interest for feminism had awoken and for a second, I thought we’d go hand in hand, with MRA, to deconstruct sexism… >_< When I remember I first imagined they would be calm and self-critical people aiming at better relations between men and women… Hahaha! I just had to watch a documentary about them and read a "study" about "how monogamy is like jail FOR MEN so it's bad FOR MEN so they have to cheat but don't like to be cheated"… to see they were mostly useless.
So, this is why I got tricked by your title 😛
OMG this huge comment, sorry!
TL;DR: I got tricked by your title because reading a self-critical MRA brought me into feminism.
And I forgot to say hello, I’m new here. I found your blog today, I’ve never cared about MRA since my discovery of them, but I’ve seen “redpill” mentionned as a joke on 2 sites and everyone looked like they understood so I wanted to broaden my knowledge you know and I ended up here after a few hours of reading horrors.
I really didn’t know people could go this far. I’ve read some radical feminists and the worst I’ve seen was the “#KillAllMen” tag in response to the mass shooting. These mra dudes do so much worse in response to… what? They feel like paranoid terrorists, in what world do they live in??? Seriously, they say people have no reason to be afraid of men but they’re only working to reinforce this fear. After reading all those shits for hours (I know it’s only terrible things but some of your posts made me laugh), I think about the men I know and I’m like “Wow, non crazy apocalyptic guys”.
I’m from France btw, sorry if I make English mistakes
(Is this going to be a long comment too…)
Yup. I totally forgot about those. They were not good.
I’m getting the feeling that sites like AVFM and this one exist only to taunt each other.
Oh dear. Rancid is back.
This site is very open about existing to mock groups like AVFM.
What part of “The new misogyny, tracked and mocked” and “Misogyny. I mock it.” was hard to understand?
Sadly, MRAs take themselves quite seriously even though nobody else does.
Shaun — combining the unicorns and horses, I think are stable is at 14, but I was gone for like three months, so I probably missed a bunch.
*our stable
I need coffee.
A wise person once told me that a guilty person will often accuse others of doing the exact same thing of which the original person is guilty. For example, an unfaithful spouse will often accuse the faithful spouse, without any proof, simply because of this projection. “If I’m guilty, they must be, too.” Apparently, that sort of projection is pretty common. In fact, they often combine this projection with denial. It certainly seems to be the case, here.j
“I’m not guilty! They are!”
@Lea
OH, I laughed so hard at this. It really reminds me of my favorite character in this blog:
http://boolprop.prophpbb.com/post112512.html
Vis, of Generation Six, was so well-loved for his “evilness,” that he got his own Bachelor Challenge, due to popular demand.
If you like “The Sims,” you’ll probably enjoy this. I’ve read lots of Sims blogs, and this one is my favorite.