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a voice for men empathy deficit evil sexy ladies evil women female beep boop grandiosity ha ha I tricked you I am making a joke irony alert mansplaining mantrum men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA playing the victim

Woah, what’s this? Is A Voice for Men engaging in honest self-criticism?

This could come in handy.
This could come in handy.

I was skimming through the A Voice for Men forum the other day and was stunned to find, hidden away amongst the other posts in the “rants” section, an absolutely blistering critique of AVFM itself:

Master bullshit artists, adept at stirring up drama and scapegoating, shifting all blame and accountability onto convenient disliked targets. … Used to getting what they want, having little to no accountability … and covertly aggressively lashing out at those who dare not worship them, being the one to start it, and repeatedly. Using an arsenal of social weapons at their disposal at anyone who gets in their way: accusations of [misandry], ad hominem attacks, constant contempt … public humiliation, playing on prejudices and hatred to turn people against their targets … going on the assault at others’ self-image, reputation and credibility over the pettiest of motives, the most outrageously falsely perceived slights, with calculated Machiavellian cunning towards their pettiest of aims.

Nailed it, huh?

Ok. SPOILER ALERT. I kind of lied. This comment wasn’t aimed at AVFM. It was aimed at “bitches.”

Here’s the opening wall-of-text paragraph that I left out:

I think manipulative, catty, conniving, calculating females are pure evil. Applying indirect, covert aggression as a power play, manipulating men to get in their good graces and climb up the pecking order, before aggressively attacking those who don’t “fit in” for their own sadistic pleasure, to aggrandise their own ego and to raise their own status. Playing the victim to stir white knights to go on the attack at their target, when they are the aggressor. Having utter contempt and disdain for anyone they sleep with. Expecting males to be Teflon and always shifting the blame when anyone else gets hurt – it’s always the other person’s fault for being hurtable, for not being Teflon – they always have zero accountability for any harm caused, deny any role in it, and tell themselves it’s not them to feel good and look good. Deluding people, by putting on a cute demeanour, that “she wouldn’t do that”. Using charm to beguile, while calculatingly lashing out at anyone who dares to reveal their true colours or who even sees through their mask at what they really are. Totally void of empathy or sympathy, while putting it on purely fakely to gain an advantage.

And here’s the bit I quoted at the start, though this time I’ve put all the bits I carefully reworded or ellipsed away the first time through back in again; they’re in bold.

Master bullshit artists, adept at stirring up drama and scapegoating, shifting all blame and accountability onto convenient disliked targets. Seeing their own cuntish wiles as meritous. Used to getting what they want, having little to no accountability, being placed on a pedestal and feeling they belong there, sneering down their noses in contempt at those who respect them (the latter being pawns in their power play), and covertly aggressively lashing out at those who dare not worship them, being the one to start it, and repeatedly. Using an arsenal of social weapons at their disposal at anyone who gets in their way: accusations of misogyny, ad hominem attacks, constant contempt and a complete disregard for other people’s boundaries, malicious back-talk, public humiliation, playing on prejudices and hatred to turn people against their targets, an opportunistic use of political correctness, going on the assault at others’ self-image, reputation and credibility over the pettiest of motives, the most outrageously falsely perceived slights, with calculated Machiavellian cunning towards their pettiest of aims.

Yeah, it sounds a lot more AVFMish that way.

Even after four years of reading this bullshit, I’m a bit amazed at just how much of MRA, er, philosophy seems to be little more than projection.

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brooked
brooked
6 years ago

Ha Ha, that’s an excellent photoshop, I actually googled “Cuntish Wiles” even though it’s a little excessive even by pulp standards. The selection of images that came up were pretty bizarre. It sadly had a photo of Meryl Streep and Hillary Clinton together. Really Google?

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
6 years ago

Me Right Always!

jared
jared
6 years ago

I agree with one of the commenters these guys are persecuting themselves byprojecting so much paranoia and hatred at women. How could these guys consider this so called mens rights movement legitimate after spewing some silly, hateful venom. A week from now these guys are supposed to be hosting a legitimate mens conference. This is the garbage that they will spew. But it just seems like these guys are more angry that they cannot obtain sex than angry about real issues like male suicide and rape. It is a damn shame a movement that supposed to help men has so much hate and drivel attached to it, you can’t take it seriously. What a shame these hateful misogynistic , racist mra’s.

dratman
6 years ago

That is so depressing. But, even worse, I watched a youtube video about parents in India aborting female fetuses, or killing newborn girls. That is misogyny taken to a level of what I would call insanity.

More and more, when I see some of the thing humans do, I have to throw up my hands. I can’t stop people from doing bizarre stuff, and I don’t intend to let their insane behavior make me insane too. That would be pointless.

I hate to be the person who turns away without doing anything, but it is an endless battle with craziness, and speaking for myself, most of the time I can’t bring myself to fight it anymore.

WhyDoesHeDrinkTheKoolAid
WhyDoesHeDrinkTheKoolAid
6 years ago

Seems like the thread was deleted. Looks like AVFM disapproves of this person after all.

Shaun Day
Shaun Day
6 years ago

@ katz, fabulous!

*starts growing a backyard of oats*
How big is our stable, now?

katz
6 years ago

That is so depressing. But, even worse, I watched a youtube video about parents in India aborting female fetuses, or killing newborn girls. That is misogyny taken to a level of what I would call insanity.

More and more, when I see some of the thing humans do, I have to throw up my hands. I can’t stop people from doing bizarre stuff, and I don’t intend to let their insane behavior make me insane too. That would be pointless.

I hate to be the person who turns away without doing anything, but it is an endless battle with craziness, and speaking for myself, most of the time I can’t bring myself to fight it anymore.

We don’t talk that way around here.

marci
6 years ago

Morally Repugnant Asshats

kittehserf
6 years ago

Seconding katz.

Dratman, repugnant behaviour – whether we’re talking racism, misogyny or any other bigotries – has Fucking Nothing To Do With Mental Illness.

Apart from the harm it does people who have mental illness using those terms; apart from the way it effectively lessens abusers’ responsibility for their actions, it’s ridiculous to talk about bigotries as “insanity.” Painting a whole society that way is absurd.

BritterSweet
6 years ago

@ dratman

Just giving you a heads-up: although words that allude to mental illness (“insane,” “crazy,” etc.) are deeply ingrained in the everyday vocabulary of a lot of people (including myself in the past), it can be considered insulting to people who *do* have mental illnesses. So here on We Hunted the Mammoth, we have some unwritten(?) rules about the language used here.

BritterSweet
6 years ago

again @ dratman:

I’m assuming you’re new here, so I want to warn you about some other things not tolerated by the regulars on this site, including but not limited to:

– Gendered insults (“bitch,” etc.)
– Stuff that refers to mental or developmental disorders (“retarded,” “crazy,” etc.)
– Albeist, meaning implying insults to people with disabilities
– Implying talking down to sexual orientations

Like I said in my earlier comment, some of this stuff is so commonplace in our societal system that many people may do this without realizing how harmful it can be. So try to use more fair-game words to express your points. For example, replace “insane” in your comment with something like “absurd.” 🙂

BritterSweet
6 years ago

^Oh. Whoops. Since I actually used the forbidden words for examples, my comment listing what’s not tolerated here is under moderation. Sorry. I should have instead just said to go here:

https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/comments-policy/

(only thought of it AFTER posting).

Angela Jones-Parker
Angela Jones-Parker
6 years ago

Lea,

I do the mixed Skittles/M&M trick all the time. I call them S&Ms. It cuts WAY down on greediness. The total look of shock and betrayal on some greedy kid who helped themselves to a whole handful of candy (from a relatively small bowl) when said kid finds out that it’s not all chocolate…is win.

Nequam
Nequam
6 years ago

Were those chocolate Skittles as unappetizing as they looked? (I don’t mind the occasional regular batch of Skittles, though I like Starburst better.)

Yuli
Yuli
6 years ago

Haha you got me too! :'(

Lol, this post reminds me of how I got into feminism thanks to… self-critical “masculinism”. And I was ready to defend it against feminists (about whom I knew very little) if they rejected it.

3 years ago, I found a 1996 French study/conference about “the advantages of rape for men”. I avoided feminism at the time, because it made me really uncomfortable/sad. There was a link to this study in the comment section of a book review and I was so disturbed at the title that I had to read the whole study.
The sociologist (male) was pro-feminism and analyzed/criticized the mechanism of men’s sexuality (ok not all men but a lot). For example, how it’s used as/compared to a weapon, how being penetrated is often considered an humiliation/a sacrifice/a present, and how all of this plays a role in the desire to rape, the strong reject of gay men, or prison rape, amongst other things… There was no hate, he did not victimize anyone, and he and his friends made experiences on themselves, went to prisons to meet with criminals, and tried to make them reflect on their act and sexuality, etc…

I used to never want to give a thought about men’s sexual violence (on women). This specific violence, for some reason, scared the hell out of me. Some said it was a “male need” and that “this man lost control for a moment”… So did this mean that men are creatures who spend their life TRYING TO NOT HARM women? That’s awful but somehow, it felt better to think they “lose control”… It feels much worse to realize it’s actually all about desires. and hierarchy.

This man (argh, can’t remember his name!) did other studies with the same approach, but I heard around 2010 he went to a meeting about rape and tried to make people understand that men and rapists are victims too in a way, as they are taught to be violent, etc… I guess he lost his mind in MRA’s circles, bye. His studies helped me in many, many ways, though.

My repressed interest for feminism had awoken and for a second, I thought we’d go hand in hand, with MRA, to deconstruct sexism… >_< When I remember I first imagined they would be calm and self-critical people aiming at better relations between men and women… Hahaha! I just had to watch a documentary about them and read a "study" about "how monogamy is like jail FOR MEN so it's bad FOR MEN so they have to cheat but don't like to be cheated"… to see they were mostly useless.

So, this is why I got tricked by your title 😛

Yuli
Yuli
6 years ago

OMG this huge comment, sorry!
TL;DR: I got tricked by your title because reading a self-critical MRA brought me into feminism.

And I forgot to say hello, I’m new here. I found your blog today, I’ve never cared about MRA since my discovery of them, but I’ve seen “redpill” mentionned as a joke on 2 sites and everyone looked like they understood so I wanted to broaden my knowledge you know and I ended up here after a few hours of reading horrors.

I really didn’t know people could go this far. I’ve read some radical feminists and the worst I’ve seen was the “#KillAllMen” tag in response to the mass shooting. These mra dudes do so much worse in response to… what? They feel like paranoid terrorists, in what world do they live in??? Seriously, they say people have no reason to be afraid of men but they’re only working to reinforce this fear. After reading all those shits for hours (I know it’s only terrible things but some of your posts made me laugh), I think about the men I know and I’m like “Wow, non crazy apocalyptic guys”.

I’m from France btw, sorry if I make English mistakes
(Is this going to be a long comment too…)

bunnybunny
6 years ago

Were those chocolate Skittles as unappetizing as they looked?

Yup. I totally forgot about those. They were not good.

Racnad
Racnad
6 years ago

I’m getting the feeling that sites like AVFM and this one exist only to taunt each other.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oh dear. Rancid is back.

This site is very open about existing to mock groups like AVFM.

What part of “The new misogyny, tracked and mocked” and “Misogyny. I mock it.” was hard to understand?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Sadly, MRAs take themselves quite seriously even though nobody else does.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Shaun — combining the unicorns and horses, I think are stable is at 14, but I was gone for like three months, so I probably missed a bunch.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

*our stable

I need coffee.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

A wise person once told me that a guilty person will often accuse others of doing the exact same thing of which the original person is guilty. For example, an unfaithful spouse will often accuse the faithful spouse, without any proof, simply because of this projection. “If I’m guilty, they must be, too.” Apparently, that sort of projection is pretty common. In fact, they often combine this projection with denial. It certainly seems to be the case, here.j

“I’m not guilty! They are!”

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@Lea

I’m slipping. I really let myself go. I had my evilocity tested and I’m only 97% evil. Don’t worry though. I’m going to work at it until I’m pure evil again.

Later I’m going to tell the kids I made dessert and when they get all excited, I’m going to give them steamed broccoli.
Then I’m going to put Skittles in with their M&Ms and stop using fabric softeners on their sheets.

At this rate I should be back to pure evil by the weekend.

OH, I laughed so hard at this. It really reminds me of my favorite character in this blog:
http://boolprop.prophpbb.com/post112512.html

Vis, of Generation Six, was so well-loved for his “evilness,” that he got his own Bachelor Challenge, due to popular demand.

If you like “The Sims,” you’ll probably enjoy this. I’ve read lots of Sims blogs, and this one is my favorite.

Woody
Woody
6 years ago

Random comments on AVfM’s forums, from individuals unaffiliated with the site, do not represent the views of Paul or the rest of the staff at AVfM.

katz
6 years ago

Hey Michelle, wasn’t I going to read your novel?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

How does Woody breathe with his nose so far up Paul Elam’s ass?

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Random comments on AVfM’s forums, from individuals unaffiliated with the site, do not represent the views of Paul or the rest of the staff at AVfM.

And what they actually DO publish is equally just as shit. Do you ever read their articles?

Oh wait. Of course not.

Also, the fact that the comment was allowed to stay up and wasn’t taken down says a LOT about AVFM, doesn’t it? If a feminist posted on a feminist forum somewhere saying “I HATE ALL MEN AND THEY SHOULD ALL BE CASTRATED”, you’d be mad if the site left them up.

That’s why you’re all mad about radfemhub.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Idk WWTH, does he though? That reads like a standard disclaimer — any views expressed are those of the author, not the organization.

Yeah, great, but when you claim to be activists and let hatred go unchallenged, that certainly says something about you. “We don’t actually all thing that women, sorry, females, are evil, but it’s totally okay that you do”

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@dratman

what were you trying to see how many times you could use the word insane in a comment?

And kittehs and katz beat me to probably better responses, but sometimes all I can do is snark this stuff :/

@bittersweet

So here on We Hunted the Mammoth, we have some unwritten(?) rules about the language used here.

I think they actually got added to the welcome package? which would make them written 😛 but I could be wrong.

Michelle C Young
6 years ago

@katz – I haven’t been able to work on it, lately. It’s not ready for editing, yet. I finished the first draft, but have to do a major overhaul on it. For that, I really need to be off the pain meds, long enough to do a second draft.

Don’t worry. When it’s ready, I will let you know.

GrumpyOldMan
GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

Woody whines, “Random comments on AVfM’s forums, from individuals unaffiliated with the site, do not represent the views of Paul or the rest of the staff at AVfM.”

Here are Paul’s own words, then: “You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”

I rest my case.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

As a statistician, I take issue with Woody’s assertion that the comments on AVfM forums are random.

No, their content is not random. Their content is influenced by what the site stands for, the content of blog posts, and the content of other comments – including up and down vote results.

FFS Woody, do you have any idea of what the word “random” means?

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Taino

Why is any attention given to this nonsense?

For mockery, Taino. For the great lulz. And because sunlight is the best disinfectant. Abusive assholes don’t just magically see the error of their ways. It’s societal disapproval and external circumstances that rein them in.

RE: contrapangloss

If they think pedestals are so awesome, why don’t they sit on them, instead of standing on their soapboxes?

Because it’ll never be high enough to satisfy them.

RE: Yuli

men and rapists are victims too in a way

HAHAHA NO. That’s what rapists TRY to claim, that it’s really everything victimizing THEM. It’s horseshit.

RE: Racnad

I’m getting the feeling that sites like AVFM and this one exist only to taunt each other.

Nah, this one also exists for cat photos, random trivia, and socializing. And AVFM doesn’t care THAT much about us.

RE: WWTH

How does Woody breathe with his nose so far up Paul Elam’s ass?

Well, he obviously can’t smell the shit…

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

@Racnad: So, let me get this straight: You think AVFM, a site with multiple writers which claims to be about “compassion for men and boys” is about taunting WHTM, which is a blog run by one person explicitly covering and mocking all misogynist activity, not just AVFM?

Basically, your argument is that not only does AVFM not do what it’s supposed to, but that what it does is done much better by this blog, which has only one writer. That sound about right?

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@LBT

RE: Yuli

men and rapists are victims too in a way

HAHAHA NO. That’s what rapists TRY to claim, that it’s really everything victimizing THEM. It’s horseshit.

oh,wow I somehow missed horribad troll trying to claim rapists are victims…

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

LBT

“If they think pedestals are so awesome, why don’t they sit on them, instead of standing on their soapboxes?”

“Because it’ll never be high enough to satisfy them.”

The pedestals can reach outer space and it may satisfy them… a little bit .

RE: WWTH

“How does Woody breathe with his nose so far up Paul Elam’s ass?”

“Well, he obviously can’t smell the shit…”

http://diylol.com/meme-generator/laughing-dog/memes/stop-stop-youre-gonna-make-me-pee

kittehserf
6 years ago

Yuli, hi! Have an Official Complimentary Welcome Package!

LBT and Marie: did you see Yuli was quoting the other guy about “men and rapists are victims too in a way” and disagreeing with it? I wasn’t sure from your comments. He’s not trolling – read his entire comments.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

GUYS GUYS EXCITING NEWS MY FOOD STAMPS CAME IN YAAAAAY! 😀

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

LBT: Yay for food!

I hope Woody’s on the AVFM payroll. He’s doing a better job at PR than JB is.

kittehserf
6 years ago

LBT, great news!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I’m so excited, looks like we’ll be celebrating anniversary with a scandalous treat or something! Things that people on food stamps are never supposed to buy because it proves they aren’t serious about self-sufficiency! Maybe… COOKIES!

Oh, I feel so DELICIOUSLY evil just thinking about it.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I wish you were close enough to take out to celebrate, LBT. I guess we’ll just have to make a toast in your honor.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I would have a toast, were I not medically forbidden from drinking! Skaal!

This news is way more awesome and better than Matheus over there.

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@kittehs

LBT and Marie: did you see Yuli was quoting the other guy about “men and rapists are victims too in a way” and disagreeing with it? I wasn’t sure from your comments. He’s not trolling – read his entire comments.

I only saw the quoted bits, I missed his comment :/ Sorry, Yuli

@LBT

Yay for food stamps 😀

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Yay for food. 🙂

Tracy
6 years ago

Another yay for food! Enjoy your cookies 🙂

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

This has been in my head for a while now, since these posts, I have to share!

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

LBT

I’m so HAPPY for you!!